Search and Destroy : John Zorn

not sure where else i'd go....his fingers have been in so many pots, i've lost interest in trying to keep an eye on them... m.

I like it (_Live at the Knitting Factory_), but it's probably not essential since it greatly overlaps _Naked City_. Since the band read from sheet music, I expected near carbon copies of the album tracks. Fortunately, many of the drum fills and guitar licks are played differently.

That's an interesting hypothesis. I know that Zorn has managed to acquire some impressive credentials in the classical world (e.g., commissions from "Kronos Quartet, the New York Philharmonic, EOS Orchestra, Netherlands Wind Ensemble, Brooklyn Philharmonic, Bayerischer Staatsoper, WDR Orchestra Köln and American pianist Stephen Drury" according to his official bio), and his works are being performed, so it certainly seems within the realm of possibility that his classical reputation will continue to grow. On the other hand, perhaps he's just as likely to go down as a kind of Gertrude Stein figure, i.e., as the spiritual center, figurehead, and den mother of a particular artistic "scene" - I'm thinking of his role in the "downtown" music crowd and the Tzadik label, in particular.

if rock or jazz become classicised that would be depressing...actually, are you saying that it will all just become a wing of classical, or just 'respectable' in the way classical music is. if the latter is the case, the rock and jazz have attained a level of respectability because it sells millions of recs (that's how the system works: it's all tied in to how much money it makes i suppose).

I don't! he does mess around with FAR too many forms to really be categorised. His dabblings (actually more than that) in hardcore would make sure of that. A large part of his work would alienate rock fans (there's not enough guitars around anyway). And jazz, well there's too much hardcore and improv for that. I'd like to think of him as an 'anti-jazz/anti-classical' composer that is also a great improviser. So in other words you can't easily categorise him. Thank goodness for that.

I see some evidence of this happening already. Are you familiar with Bang on a Can? It's a collective formed by three composers - Michael Gordon, David Lang, and Julia Wolfe - that puts on various concerts, commissions works, and has its own in-house ensemble, the Bang on a Can All-Stars. The All-Stars have unconventional instrumentation for a classical ensemble: cello, piano, double-bass, percussion, clarinet, and electric guitar are the primary instruments. Through their commissions, they are creating a classical repertoire for this idiosyncratic ensemble, and many of the pieces that they play blend the lines between avant-rock and classical. Among the All-Stars recordings are a re-recording of Brian Eno's "Music for Airports" arranged by the Gordon, Lang, and Wolfe, as well as pieces such as Terry Riley's "In C" which come from the more established classical realm. I think that the day will come when it's no longer surprising to see an electric guitar on stage with a classical ensemble.

the canon / standard repertoire is vast and immovable. seems like it will take decades, at least, to really put a dent in it, despite bang on a can et al.

I'm not trying to - honest. It's my particular curse to instinctively sound like a PR flack.

and i think musicians' tastes will usualy be at least the equal of their own work

I second that. But also zorn's duo w/ eugene chadbourne. It's called 'in memory of nikkin akane' i think. It's on incus as well so just look at the webpage.

it's wonderful the things that he can do with his instrument to sound like donald duck!

'I'm saying that it's possible one day a classical music concert might consist of a Haydn violin concerto, Wagner overture and a suite of pieces by Naked City. Obviously, that kind of assimilation would take time.''

I would actually think that classical music with its orchestras (as it is now) might actually fade w/time (at least i hope so!).

the prolem with naked city is that (only heard the first alb) is that the melodies he writes for them really doesn't hold very well. That would be the problem if he was to be assimilated into some sort of canon.

oh no, i think that would be a sad rejection of too much good music, from both the past and nowdays

what i like about where tzadik is going is that it isn't afraid to release all sorts of different music, hopefully further loosening the institutional almost veto style control that has stifled and held back music that uses orchestras or chamber outfits

hopefully there can be more mix and match band/instrumentalist combinations, of which zorn has been one of the pioneers with various of his formats

Thank you for asking that question, indeed John Zorn is a puzzling and engimatic musician, whose discography is just as puzzling as a dali painting.

So where do you start?

Well, the best place to start with Zorn is his Masada projects, especially his band with Dave Douglas.

The best Masada albums are the live recordings either 'Live in Sevilla 2000' or 'Live at Tonic 2001'

Next is Naked City, the debut album is the best, simply entitled 'Naked City', the latest album released this year 'Naked City Live....' is a good illustration of the live experience of Naked City, the other records are interesting, but a little crazy, (with aweful cover art). Of the other discs 'Grand Guigol' is the best, the decapitated head on the cover however might put you off buying it, it put me off, although I have most of the album on mp3. The first 6 tacks are actuallyrather ambient! Naked City cover classical composers Debussy, Messiaen, Scaribin and others. The other tracks are thrash metal, torture music starring Y. Eye from The Boredoms on tortured vocal.

On to actual Zorn releases.

My first recommendation is a rather obscure record.

It is John Zorn's 'The Bribe', it's a mafia soundtrack, a follow up to 'Goddard/Spillane'. Yet it is a very different album, it's actually very listenable throughout unlike some parts of Spillane. The music is very intrenched with an almost lounge music atmosphere, with a spiked edge, that is the John Zorn edge.

My second recommendation is what has become John Zorn's most celebrated albums. 'The Big Gundown', although I prefer other albums above this one, it has received much acclaim, and it would be a sin not to include it in my recommendations list. It is a good album, but I prefer some others over it.

My third recommendation is a very serious album, that John Zorn doesn't actually play on, he is only the composer. It's 'Kristallnacht', 'The night of broken glass', the night in which the Nazis, vandalised, and assaulted jewish people and their property. The music mimics this brutal action by the Nazis. The music perfectly illustrates the night. Hitler's voice is sampled in the brilliant Jewish folk song 'Shtetl', and tortured strings full the album, and than there is 'Never Again' 11.41 of pure noice and sound effects, Zorn warns in the liner notes, that the tune can lead to permanent deafness, nausua and a varity of other effects, it's best to skip this song, but it still serves as a reminder of the tradgic events that occured that fateful night.

The next recommendation is one of Zorn's most melodic albums of all time. The album is 'News for Lulu' a tribute to the Blue Note Hard Bop musicians of the 60s. Heavily featured are the compostions of Sonny Clark, Freddie Redd, Hank Mobley and others, it is an unusual trio of Zorn - Alto Sax, George Lewis - Trombone, Bill Frisell - Guitar. The tracks are extremely compact, turning 10 minute hard bop blow outs, to 2 minute tracks. However, this is a more of a tribute than 'Spy vs Spy', there isn't any hardcore playing here, it's very restained.

Finally my last recommendation is 'Spy vs Spy: The Music of Ornette Coleman'. This album is an extreme hardcore jazz album, turning Ornette Coleman into thrash metal jazz. With 20 times the punch as Ornette Coleman's original versions, this is certainly a legendary and unique tribute album, that is essential for any John Zorn collector.

That's it for now good luck.

Thanks, Geoff

there is a conservative trend in classical which can be irritating. There is good music there (as in most places) but i would like more risks to be taken, that's all.

but you said previously that a classical music recital would contain Zorn w/ say wagner or Haydyn. i don't know abt their melodic sense but surely cage and stockhausen are on one end of classical, whereas wagner and haydyn are on another. I think if improvisation goes back to classical in a big way then maybe we could see Zorn on a bill but it wouldn't be in either group (hard to see whee exactly he would be at still).

I take note of the other naked city stuff and will try and track it down over the coming months. cheers.

Here's a nice excerpt:
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mg: I don't know about music, but I do know that in the late forties, early fifties, making paintings was a viable revolutionary concept in the sense that one felt that you could change the world. That's what late Modernism was all about, you felt you were doing something important.
jz: You don't feel that anymore?

mg: Well, I think it was Lenin who said that freedom is the recognition of necessity. And I think that we, as artists, have that same kind of thing. We pare down to what's necessary to us.
jz: We've made a lot of sacrifices to live the life that we live.

mg: Exactly.
jz: And people don't appreciate that. They think we're out here balling, you know? It's not that way. It's hard work, and you get isolated. And you get distracted by the normal human need for companionship and love and understanding and appreciation. Those are distractions from doing the work, I feel. That's why I can't read magazines or newspapers, I don't look at TV. I try to focus on what's important, which is really the work itself. Making sure that you do the best possible thing in the purest possible way with the most imagination and technique and honesty that you can pull together.
======

Wow...companionship and love and understanding and appreciation are "distractions from doing the work." Strange, but I think I see where he's coming from.

Anyway, I recently bought Xu Feng, a game piece written in 1985 and performed in 2000 - outstanding. Very dynamic and exciting - 2 drummers, 2 guitarists, and 2 electronics guys. In the liner notes, Zorn says that the piece may be performed with 6 drummers (!!). Are his other game piece releases this good? I heard some of the Knitting Factory Cobra disc, and it didn't really grab me.

That was a good interview with Zorn, and probably one of the longer ones available anywhere. He did another great one where he speaks more about his background in a William Duckworth book called Talking Music. That book also features interviews with Philip Glass, Terry Riley, Steve Reich, Laurie Anderson, Pauline Oliveros and John Cage. Look for it!

I don't know if it's still available, but the online shopping cart lets you select it.

That book sounds interesting - sounds like he hooked up with half of the Nonesuch roster.

I've been debating getting the Big Gundown reissue just for the bonus songs - I heard a clip of "The Sicilian Clan" (not the Naked City version), and it sounded great (there's even a little jew's harp in it). Worth buying again?

Ipos: Book of Angels Volume 14 = blowing my shell right now.

The presence of "Volume 14" in the title pretty much sums up why I stopped trying to keep up with Zorn about a decade ago. I mean, I know I'm missing lots of good stuff, but there are only so many hours in the day, days in the year, dollars in the bank ...

for real

i love the Dreamers stuff so much

The Medeski/Wollesen piano/vibraphone work on Dreamachines is incredible, not another Dreamers recording but the 3rd of part his Burroughs series with that band and some of it is very Dreamers like in style.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cd4LLjepX2I

The Big Gundown still sounds so rad + essential, can never get bored of it!

with the tzadik catalogue making its way to streaming, what's ya'll's favorites from the filmworks series?

if you like the idea of zorn doing dark percussive "wide open desert music", #16 workingman's death (2006) is pretty neat.

i have other favs in the series, but would like to hear yours.

okay, i can't resist- one more rec: #18 the treatment (also 2006, a very productive era for zorn/tzadik; imo maybe in the midst of his most consistent run). completely devoid of percussion, it relies heavily on vibes + accordion. even at the time, madvillainy was already certified + i heard a lot of the album as full of potentially just as killer accordion beats. not listening with the ears of a copyright troll, it's darn pleasant music with enough soloing to hold attention outside of the film's visuals (which i've never seen, ofc).

(sidebar q: i've never seen any of the actual films from the series. have you?)

Been a while, but I recall lots of primo Quine.

funny i've never heard the treatment but #19 The Rain Horse is probably my fav of the ones i've know, also percussion-free, just piano bass & cello iirc. will def be seeking out #18 today