Killing Joke - Classic Or Dud, Search And Destroy

more later.

I have a dreadful feeling though that if I was Japanese I'd think the same things about Keiji Haino that I do about Jaz Coleman.

Bought the new Primal Scream album. Everyone raving about it. "Wardance" from the Joke blows that whole damn album away. And as for not being heavy enough; listen to Extremities and Exorcist off of Pandemonium.

Honor, Intensity, Integrity, First Rate Musicianship and having a profound influence on many popular bands: KILLING JOKE!

Or, for that matter:

Jez

Bez

Baz

Gaz

Jem

Cressa

Sorry, that story isn't true.

I have seen 'the bastards' live, Nicholas, which was as dispiriting and boring as any gig I've ever been to.

You are talking out of your arse.

You've seen them live ? Did you have your eyes closed & your fingers in your ears ?

Honour The Fire.

T.

Sometimes when Killing Joke don't like a crowd they aim to f**k 'em off. They probably didn't like the look of you.

"HONOUR THE FIRE" !!, ..."THERE IS NO-ONE MIGHTIER"

See what I mean. As I said - Pomp-post-punk at it's most preposterous.

Like so many other things, I first stumbled across them thanks to the 1989 _Trouser Press_ guide, and being a Questing Young College DJ Type, I searched and listened. As that was arguably the era of Wax Trax dominance and I was duly (and pleasantly) scarred for life, early KJ made perfect sense to me as proto-Ministry. If you want proof, dig up "Burning Inside" from _Mind is a Terrible Thing..._, which is a *total* KJ homage. And Chuck Eddy noticed it as well. ;-)

End of the eighties, total muck. Nineties stuff, mixed to indifferent. I think I'm also glad I've never actually seen them live. The first three albums, though -- they still rock. "Requiem," "Wardance," "Follow the Leader," and of course the godlike "The Wait," which not even Metallica could really screw up -- all reasons to say they had a definite something.

As for the Primal Scream album, I didn't like it either. I can quite see why KJ fans would have a problem with a record which kicks off with "Kill All Hippies", mind you.

What ever next! This thread is already chaotic, complex and intense just like Killing Joke passionate music.

Maybe Killing joke fans can address, Tom's question:

What are Killing Joke communicating? What makes Killing Joke's music different from other artists? What albums would you recommend?

and Tanya there are a few female fans on the KJ mailing list!

Rather than trading personal insults, lets focus on the music, lets keep the debate intelligent.

My full reply on why Killing Joke are one the most important British bands of all time will arrive later.

Not for the first time in the last few days, an enthusiast has told us that we can't judge a band on merely one or two albums. I would like to register my strong disagreement with this, and suggest to them that, by their own logic, they are not qualified to talk about music until they have heard EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF MUSIC EVER RECORDED. Then they can come back to me with their valid opinions.

As for KJ, I quite like a couple of things off their first LP because they mostly remind me of being 11 years old. Now I think they're pretty much rubbish but nostalgia leads me back to 'Wardance' Requiem' and 'Psyche' once in a while. Note to regular readers: I'm not proud of this.

As far as being 'the forefathers of industrial music' I'd be much happier looking at Cabaret Voltaire and Throbbing Gristle (whose label gave industrial its name, let's not forget), both of whom were funnier and less obvious than KJ. And frankly better.

Anyway, Tim Hopkins deserves the highest praise for his "every single piece of music ever recorded" comment.

And I quite like Killing Joke's first album, but I'm starting to feel embarrassed about it.

And I did appreciate Tim's zinger. But my point on the Swans still holds. ;-)

As for not liking the music, what specifically? The guitars? The drumming? Dub influence? The melodies? oh wait, the song titles. thats it.

with the joke integrity is never an issue.

Certainly the likes of Ministry, Nine Inch Nails & other "industrial" heavyweights have profited in Killing Joke's slipstream. Have you heard the first Ministry album "With Sympathy" from 1983 ? Sounds like the f*ck*ng Thompson Twins !

Killing Joke soon developed their own "tribal" style of music which was plagiarized by the lesser likes of Sex Gang Children, Play Dead, 1919, Danse Society & a host of others. Fair enough, I can well appreciate that people do not like their music but to deny their importance in rock's rich history is being sadly ill-informed.

As for Jaz's classical projects, I sense an obvious air of inverted snobbery from the mainstream music press - never seems to get a mention. With the demise of Melody Maker & Sounds, the poor old NME cover laughable pop tripe cos it's desperate for readership.

They are acknowledged as being major influences on the likes of Faith No More, Soundgarden, Metallica and Nirvana. Musically, there's nobody quite like the Joke - they've been brave enough in the $$ driven world of commercialism to explore different sounds and rhythms.

Yeah, you either love them or hate them. I'm a Joker. I love the combination of the frenetic drums, driving bass and edgey guitar delivered like nobody else does. I get the adrenalin spike whenever I hear 'Wardance', 'Whiteout' or 'Exorcism'. The lyrics, while I don't always agree with the sentiment, compliment the music perfectly.

Definately paved the way for some classic acts. Definately more classic than dud.

The Joker in me says "if you don't like them, then fuck you". Good thing I have him under control...

-S

KILLING JOKE: THE BEGINNING

The first four albums are worth exploring Killing Joke (1980) and What’s this for (1981) Revelations (1982) Fire Dances. (1983)

The first two had a raw intense feeling, that merged punk, and to my ears Black Sabbath and even the stooges and dub influences into a new sonic blueprint. The next built two built and extended Killing Joke reputation as an individualistic band that stood apart from other bands.

The tribal drumming, the pounding rhythms, the use of keyboards, powerful bass guitars, and guitars that shatter with intensity and Jaz's passionate vocal delivery style.

KILLING JOKE: THE MID EIGHTIES

1985 – January saw the release of the Killing Joke most famous song “Love Like Blood” this was my first introduction to Killing Joke as 14 year old going on 15. The immense power and build up in this song, to me is as important as Love will tear us apart. The influence of this song alone inspired Faith No More to create similar intense tracks on their Introduce Yourself album.

Night time is one of my personal favourite album of the 80s, injected melody with power - and one of the classic alternative rock singles of all time - Love Like Blood. Although released in 1985 this still sounds contemporary with a razor sharp production by Chris Kimsey.

Brighter than a thousand Suns - was more melodic, but very atmospheric and arty. Listen closely the tempos were complex. Adorations was a fine single that should have been a hit, but just missed out.

MY FIRST EXPERIENCE OF KILLING JOKE

Back in 1985 ! over 16 years a go! The band music have been with me ever since. There are few British artists that were making music over twenty years that still have integrity, of believing music as an art form Killing Joke are one of them along with Wire, The The – recording music only when the need to make music arises, not as a quick short term career cash in releasing bullshit to appease the NME and Lammo.

WHAT ARE KILLING JOKE COMMUNICATING? WHY ARE KILLING JOKE IMPORTANT?

Killing Joke stand alone as band in their approach to music. They don’t belong to any one genre - Killing Joke stand alone. Killing Joke stand for individuality, integrity, a real escape for the mundane every day life routines.

INFLUENCE OF KILLING JOKE ON MUSIC

Voivod, Tool, Red Harvest, Solefald, Jane’s Addiction, early Faith No More, Modern English, Ministry, Skinny Puppy, Rico, Nine Inch Nails, Scorn, Godflesh, The God Machine, Nirvana and many more.

Indeed my favourite album of 2000 Red Harvest – Cold Dark Matter, was influenced by Killing Joke

Red Harvest

A highly recommended for everyone who likes challenging edgy powerful intense music.

Fact Killing Joke are one of the most important British bands in influencing other artists across a wide spectrum of artists. Killing Joke have inspired, I can’t see dull plonkers like Cast, OCS, and Stereophonics ever inspiring anything creative! Can you? No

THE 90S LEGACY: Fact Killing Joke released two of the finest albums by a British band in the 90s, that they have written out of history by the NME/ Enemy and a generation of Britpoppers/ and dad rockers are not even aware of Killing Joke existence is despicable!

Tom stated "And is it just be or are they not anywhere near as heavy-sounding as they're made out to be." Tom, honestly have you heard 1990 Extremities album - one of the most sonically powerful albums by a British group over the past 25 years.

KJ Released two of the finest albums of the 90s: Extremities, Dirt and various Repressed Emotions - that was like Joy Division, Big Black and thrash metal (that they influenced in the first place) combined with the Killing Joke blueprint crushed into a molten breakdown of immense complex sonic power. Not since The Cure unleashed Pornography has psychotic power felt this multi dimensional and visceral extreme. Then in 1994 Pandemonium - Killing Joke injected 3D vibe into their music that transcended their previous peaks the tribal early sound, the supreme melodic power of Night time and the intensity of Extremities..

In 1994 Killing Joke stood alone there was no British band doing what they achieved with this album. This was not only an artistic success for the band, but also there most successful sales wise worldwide. They even achieved a few top 40 hits, all be it minor ones. At the start of the dull brit pop retro trip that we were to suffer throughout the 90s, this Killing joke shined like a beacon in a sea of conformist shit.

In 1994 I rated Bark Psychosis -hex, O rang - herd of instinct and Killing Joke - pandemonium as a reinvention in innovative British guitar music, each adding their own individual axis of invention. If you have never listened to Pandemonium give it a try, this was complex music, that was powerful with an inventive streak running through it, the intersounds of bass guitar, powerful guitar, synth mixed brilliantly by Youth.

No British band matched this album in this style throughout the 90s, and only Earthtone 9 arc’ tan’gent in 2000 attempted to get close with their excellent Killing Joke inspired sounds.

In half a decade of dull retro britpop, Killing Joke injected orginality and intensity, their pandemonium album is sublime.

THE FUTURE: Why we still need Killing Joke in the future more than ever?

Looking at the gormless bands in the NME/on Steve Lammo’s show, I thought that a new millennium we had seen the back of verse-chorus- verse 60s and rehashed influences. Have you seen the cunts flooding back this year Travis, Bluetones, Dodgy, The Divine Comdey, Stereophonics, The Manics, Ash, Gay Dad, Ocean Colour Scene, Cast, Shed Seven, and newer duds such as Clearlake, Lowgold, Coldplay, Terris, Toploader, Starsailor… it is enough to make anyone vomit in this MOR mid paced indie shit, that I know that many regulars of I Love Music detest as much Killing Joke fans!

We need Killing Joke to inject originality, vitality and passion back into rock music.

Singles collection album Autumn 2001.

A new album with Jaz, Raven, Geordie sometime in the future

However Killing Joke will release a new album, that was stated by Jaz Coleman last year will be the most violent opus yet! and Paul Raven has confirmed.. that moves are being made in preparation for the new album, which he has predicted will be a "crushing masterpiece". So the WAIT goes on !!!!

SUMMARY

I am looking forward to a future new Killing Joke, even if this delayed to 2002!. There are a very few bands to match them, although the forthcoming albums by Tool and The Chameleons are two that I am looking forward to in the interim.

Also turn the volume right up and feel the power and intensity of Killing Joke music shudder through you, I recommend the 1992 compilation Laugh I nearly bought one, and 1994 Pandemonium as excellent starting points.

Killing Joke passionate music for passionate people. Tom I hope you don't mind the take over of this thread, Killing Joke are a special band that deserve greater exposure, the likes of NME and Xfm have ignored them - they deserve respect.

By the way I don't think we ever will convert DC ! So leave it that !

For more information I Recommend Killing Joke: The Last Laugh The Last Laugh

DJ Martian DJ Martian

The thing about KJ lyrics is they seem to be advocating a kind of neo-primitivism; implying that humans are not animals with souls, but rather that they have souls *because* they are animals... it's an admirably unique stance, and you can see where the techno scene got a lot of it's philosophies from.

Now, as for their music: the only albums I've heard are Pandemonium and Democracy (and the psy-trance remix album, of course!). I loved Democracy, but Pandemonium struck me as a bit one-dimensional... nevertheless, I'm leaning towards "classic".

and there we have it, was bound to happen.
think i would be more shocked if Jaz took the vax with a massive grin on his face and posted such an image to his social media to be honest.

I do sort of admire the front of a guy who fled to Iceland to await the coming of the end times in 1982 just being like "here are my latest insights on epidemiology"

I think Jaz won't be happy until the world actually ends so he can say "I told you sooooooooooo!!!"

Killing Joke has some filthy grooves. I have always loved that repeating triplet on the one on the main beat from "The Fall of Because".

Jaz claims to have experienced COVID first hand, but has also been wresting with a few other, non-COVID-related issues. He's allegedly on the mend at the moment, though.

In terms of what he has to say about the pandemic, his accounts are characteristically fueled by what he considers his precognitive insight into the duplicitous machinations of world governments. He first said he'd never accept a compulsory vaccine, although I do not know how he feels about it now.

Last track of What's THIS For is a great big assault. Listening to the third album, love how it has been escalating.

"Revelations" is OK, the best bits are side A, the first 4 tracks of which are even better from a Peel session. I can't even bring to mind side B looking at the tracklist.

Pylon (Super Deluxe) showed up on release radar today and reminded me how much I liked this album.

PYLON has some great moments, my favorite being "Star Spangled."

I thought Revelations was pretty strong throughout, just probably not going to be one of my favorites. Started Night Time, loving it.

This is the longest wait for a new album since the immortal 2003 self-titled. Any word from the KJ camp?

Revelations made me wonder if there are any other groups that combine hysteria and sardonic observation. It doesn't seem like a paradox when Killing Joke do it.

Is the remaster of Brighter Than A Thousand Suns more scarce than the others? Don't see it very often, hope to get it from discogs soon.

New Essential Logic, co-produced by Youth, out next month (thx to Gerald McBoing-Boing for posting this link on EL's thread) https://www.roughtrade.com/gb/essential-logic/land-of-kali

The version of "Brighter" with the original mixes? There's a CD on Discogs for under $10 now. And very good it is.

I ordered the remaster on discogs and got an 80s CD instead but just couldn't be bothered sending it back so I made do with it. I read that the remaster is much better and restores what the band and producer wanted so I might order the remaster again and hope whoever I buy it from next time doesn't make the same mistake. Regardless of intended mastering, I think this is really fantastic and I'm surprised it's considered such a step down. "A Southern Sky" and "Wintergardens" are wonderful but I really like most of the album.

I'm alarmed how scarce these remasters are getting, hope another printing is coming

It's one of those follow-ups-to-a-great-album that suffers only by comparison. "Brighter" is a fantastic album in and of itself. The bonus b-sides ("Goodbye To The Village" and "Exile") are just as worthy as the LP proper, too.

Even if you got a bunch of their albums, that Killing Joke Singles 1979-2012 is a great comp. That 2cd set was in my car and a lot of play for A couple of years.

2020-21…could not escape to Iceland but many weird days, their sound just fit.

I'm alarmed how scarce these remasters are getting, hope another printing is coming

― Robert Adam Gilmour,

i have most of the remasters, but with this thread revival decided to check out filling in the gaps ('brighter..', and 'outside..').
checked a few of the usual places i purchase cds from.
damn, you are not wrong re them being scarce/£££.

I just read the original Gathering invasion salvo here and it's such a time capsule -- a glimpse into the past not only of this board but of the internet itself, honestly pretty moving to read imo

there are also at minimum 10 completely classic lines in it

Ah I thought this thread was revived due to this great piece by John Doran the other day (which is not just about KJ, but the fire is very much honoured.)

https://thequietus.com/articles/32664-killing-joke-post-punk

How often do Discogs sellers list the wrong edition of what they're selling?

Really wanted to listen through them all chronologically but since some of the middle period albums are so expensive I might just get whatever I can and listen out of order

There's a new single out, "Full Spectrum Dominance". It follows last years very good "Lord Of Chaos" EP. I hope an album is on the horizon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4lLQAbI-8E

Pretty awful news. Per a post and followup comment from Martin Atkins on Facebook a couple of hours ago, Kevin Walker aka Geordie has passed on.

Oh fuck, man what a legend - have been in the KZ zone recently, watching live footage from the last few years, marvelling that the OG lineup still sounded so mighty - such an immense player, RIP

Ugh terrible news, what an amazing player, amazing band

Honour the fire, RIP

Some lovely memories here, also confirms it was due to a stroke suffered two days ago in Prague.

https://www.facebook.com/luca.signorelli.33/posts/10230859418609528

RIP great guitar player.

oh no

who better to read on this sad occasion?

https://vassifer.blogs.com/alexinnyc/2023/11/fire-from-heaven-goodnight-goodbye-geordie-walker.html?fbclid=IwAR3oOPx582Tz5B1_0-nrRPxEDBJGUxb1u16_VeKdhG4FvptwGc3Ih1FY3Fs

Fine words and memories indeed.

Lovely in his wiki bio about being obsessed by this track as a kid - can totally hear it! Remarkable

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-bmJ2AYZK4

Gutted. Living in a small Midwest town in the ‘Eighties!’, the joy of discovering Buzzcocks, Bauhaus, The Fall, Banshees & Cure & & most most especially Killing Joke forged long term musical joy. While I caught others in various live incarnations, both of my opportunities to see KJ were dashed to work commitments or the bands’ own work visa problems. I so so regret not ever seeing Geordie’s guitar magic live.

I just heard Fire Dances for the first time this week. The man really loved his tritones.

Are there any other post-punk bands still playing with their original/classic lineups (other than U2)?

bauhaus (when they bother to tour)

even U2 is not playing with their classic lineup atm

I don't think I've ever heard a KJ song! need to remedy this asap

I hadn't listened to the Peel Sessions record in forever, no surprise that it sounds massive, RIP Geordie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLX4oVELmkI

Saw them play at City Gardens, NJ in the early '90s. Intense and exciting. Will never forget the energy in that room. Rest In Peace.

Alex's new post today well worth a read

https://vassifer.blogs.com/alexinnyc/2023/11/the-gathering-mourns-a-killing-joke-fans-lament.html

The Killing Joke documentary The Death and Resurrection Show is on Tubi watching now, pretty good so far, one shocker: amongst the talking heads being interviewed, one Mr. Jimmy Page speaking effusively about seeing them early on!

Yeah he was quoted in various obits about how much he loved Geordie's sound.

Further into the doc, it's pretty clear that Page and Jaz connected via a mutual interest in the occult, majick, Crowley, etc etc which makes sense, I guess I just was surprised that Page was engaged with anything punk or punk adjacent.

Page & Plant were famous for liking punk. They used to go see The Damned among others.