John Zorn: Classic or Dud?

Duds: I thought Locus Solus was incredibly boring. Naked City didn't do anything for me (I kept wanting it to be more intense.) I don't know the name of it, but I bought and sold a CD that has stories read in Japanese and Vietnamese to guitar accompianment; another snoozer.

Classic: The Circle Maker is really great. Also, I like Painkiller's Guts of a Virgin. The Morricioni tribute I think is very overrated (not near as fun as listening to the original), but still good. And I have a Filmworks, I think No. 5, that is great. Or maybe it is No. 4...I know that it's the soundtrack to a Japanese porno film, but then that probably only narrows it down to 10 records for Zorn.

Things I have enjoyed: Masada, Circle Maker, Godard/Spillane.

So: Classic

'Elegy' is a truly wonderful 30 minutes to spend listening to (with some brief Mike Patton typical tortured squeals thrown in there, for good measure).

Also, 'Duras:Duchamp' is quite solid. 'Aporias' is and alright listen (though, this one isn't as interesting and/or captivating as the first two mentioned). Also, "Kol Nidre" is a wonderfully touching (and quite mournful) piece (found on 'The Strig Quartets' and some other collection of his).

I'm not big on his thrash and gash jazz-fusions, though. However, some of his surf guitar stuff and other things found on collections like the 'FilmWorks' series or 'Music Romance' (that you've mentioned) is nice, too.

Also, his piece "Spillane" (one cd has "Godard" with it and the one I have has the Kronos Quartet played "Forbidden Fruit") is worth a listen.

I thought I'd revive the earliest zorn thread to say I just got Michiriro sato/john zorn's ganryu island on tzadik (from soulseek), an absolutely triffic improv sesh with Zorn at its squealin' hard blowin' best, really working furiously to provide counterpoint to sato's pluckings on his shiamsen. was first released in '84 and all zorn fans must give this one a listen.

Am I the only one who thinks Marc Ribot is, in his own way, as annoying a (guitar) wanker as Eddie Van Halen?

C/D? an output that prolific is never going to be consistent, but you have to admire his willingness to experiment and his enthusiasm. plus, classics in his repertoire include most of the naked city albums, ditto painkiller, masada, electric masada, spy vs spy, moonchild, the 50th birthdays and the music romance series.

on the other hand, some of the more recent chamber and classical works I haven't been too keen on, and roughly half of the tzadik releases seem to be less-than essential. plus tzadik released that exceptionally strange melt-banana live in the studio album that made them (them! of all bands!) sound weirdly flat and cardboard-esque, which was quite an achievement.

but, on balance, classic. music would be a much more boring place without him.

^ COLBERT ON ZORN!

Uri Caine: Moloch: Book of Angels Volume 6

I've been playing the Koby Israelite (Orobas) again lately. I agree about the awesomeness of the accordion. Lots of great solos on the record. I can see what you mean about the rhythms being somewhat unsatisfying - to me, they don't seem to "groove" quite as much as they should - they seem a bit stiff. Maybe that's what you mean by the "proggy wedding band groove" (great phrase, by the way). I guess that's because the focus is more on having lots of different sections with different tempos and having surprising sudden transitions, so it's harder sometimes to let the groove develop organically. So there's a trade-off going on, but I can see value in both approaches. It's interesting that you found the drumming less interesting than the other instruments, considering that Koby has for most of his career been primarily a drummer, and he only recently picked up the accordion. I guess he picked it up pretty fast.

There's an interesting interview with Koby here:

http://www.adequacy.net/interview.php?InterviewID=69

I've been listening to last year's Malphas, performed by Mark Feldman and Sylvie Courvoisier, a great deal this summer. It's lovely, quite energetic, with memorable, unpredictable melodies and tight interplay. I sometimes wonder how much of the credit should go to Zorn and how much to the performers. AFAIK the scoring is quite open.

Also, I recently downloaded Astronome, performed by Patton/Baron/Dunn. It's very different but I liked it on first listen. Heavy noise-rock with vocables from Patton but somehow it seems to come together and be more listenable than some other things in that vein.

AFAIK the scoring is quite open

That's certainly the impression I get from the Koby interview:

DOA: The songs on Orobas are from Zorn's Masada series, which have been described as "improvisational starting points." In what form was the music delivered to you, and how much of it was already clearly defined? There are some killer solos on various instruments throughout the album. Would it be more accurate to say they were your improvisations or lines that were meticulously mapped out by Zorn ahead of time?

KI: Zorn sent me only the melodies/riffs in some tunes, and for some he sent me the chord changes (like in the song “Nisroc,” for example). The solos were improvised by myself or by the trumpet player Sid Gauld, recorder player Stewart Curtis, and bass player Yaron Stavi.

Mark Feldman is amazing on Ned Rothenberg's Inner Diaspora. He's playing a little less outside there, but there's plenty going on. The whole album is terrific (not that it has much to do with Zorn, aside from being on his label).

Yeah, you keep mentioning that one.;) I'm sure I'll like it but I haven't got around to hearing it yet.

BTW that's noise-rock in a proggy, choppy kind of way, not in a droney way.

Yeah, you keep mentioning that one.;)

Even though I have hardly heard anything new this year, I have to have something to hype.

Classic, but that Mike Patton connection makes me want to call him a dud.

why

DID NOT DESERVER 500,000 PTS!!!

MOST OF J Z'S SHIT SOUNDS LIKE ADULT THEMES FOR VOICES. TWO THUMBS DOWN.

dud. his voice on his horns is empty and faceless, and along with ken vandermark he's essentially this music's equivalent of the blues brothers: always paying tribute at the expense of developing even a halfway distinctive approach.

Naked City, Kristallnacht & Cobra live performances are pretty classic. Shots of a duo w/Eye I took in the 90's @ the Knitting Factory:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1238/1034906278_ff38e3f7bb.jpg

Christmas album!

The biggest surprise of the year is John Zorn’s beautiful Christmas album. Zorn has hand picked seven of his favorite Christmas songs, penned two lovely originals and they are performed here in classic Dreamers style with plenty of exciting solos, exotic colors and catchy lyricism. Filled with a joyful holiday spirit, innocence, a touch of nostalgia and a charming lyricism, this is music for all ages that will make you smile with delight from the very first notes. As a special treat, vocalist Mike Patton delivers an intimate and heartfelt rendition of Chestnuts Roasting on an Open Fire, making A Dreamers Christmas an instant classic, and an essential album for any contemporary Christmas celebration.

Can't wait for this.

Me too. I love the Dreamers stuff

John Zorn is one of the first/formative favorite artists of mine who nonetheless made me, at a certain point, just say 'enough.' So much of his stuff was so well packaged, played (by some of my favorite players) and recorded, and so much was expensive even by domestic standards, let alone as imports, that years ago I just had to give up trying to keep up. I haven't heard anything - let alone thought of - Zorn for longer than I can remember, though I have held on to some of my favorite stuff: Masada, Naked City, the soundtrack series, Big Gundown. Bar Kokhba and The Circle Maker.

(Ha, looking upthread, I think the last time Zorn came to mind was the last time I posted on this thread, five years ago!

I just got the first four Masada discs (three full-length CDs and a three-song EP). Listened to part of the first one this morning. It was good, but not life-changing or anything, and I didn't hear a huge amount of Ornette (except on the very first track) or anything ultra-Jewish in a shove-it-in-your-face sort of way. Most of it was just adventurous-ish hard bop. I guess I'll make my way through all of it (35 tracks) just 'cause it's there, but honestly my enthusiasm is already fading and I've only listened to about eight pieces.

I dunno, I think adventurous-ish hard bop is good enough. I suppose it does get interesting what be does with the various Masada themes in future projects/groups.

This Christmas album is well lounge-y...Not sure what I expected but we're clearly in the world of Christmas Cookin'/Ski Surfin'/Charlie Brown rather than Jazz Freakout Christmas.

I had a real Zorn-athon today. Listened to The Dreamers albums and then took in Mount Analogue for the first time. I bought my first Zorn Album 'Spillane' when I was 15 years old and 24 years later I still feel like I am a newbie. It was a split South Bank Show with Zorn/Sonic Youth that got my attention. Whenever I get bored of everything on my ipod I just delete it all and stick a load of Zorn/Mingus/Miles/Mozart on it.Every time I go back to Zorn there is always one of his albums that I previously didn't care much for, suddenly becomes my favourite album. The guy's music is an extraordinary goldmine. Now I am listening to Nova Express which is becoming another of my favourites.

Dreamers is his sort of post-Masada outfit, right? Sort of like another iteration of Electric Masada? I've heard their Book 2 disc is great.

Just check out The Gift, The Dreamers,Alhambra Love Songs and o'o and I guarantee you will find a lot to love. I am not great with his personel but I they all have Ribot on guitar and members of Electric Masada.

Electric Masada is a better band than Radiohead

I will be careful about getting too excited on here in future, lest I get cut again by laconic wit.

Sorry about my last nonsense post I have had a few today and am not sure what I was talking about.

The Basilica organ performance was great and as someone who occasionally attended mass there as a child surreal

Caught the New Masada Quartet performance and it was the most fun & pleasure I've gotten out of Zorn group since like 1993, loved it

Who's in that group?

Oh, Kenny Wolleson and Julian Lage, nice. Would love to hear that band.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NAhjnGu8No

is that clemenza on drums?

lol, It's crazy how much older Kenny Wolleson looks compared to when I first saw him, I didn't recognize him in that John Lurie studio episode

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF5tidRij1g

He looks exactly like this old boss I use to have named Dennis, and the whole show I was like "man Dennis is really fucking good at drums"

went to the John Zorn, Laurie Anderson, Sean Ono Lennon a few weeks ago and it was excellent

Old news, but I didn't realize Zorn got burned so badly by the sleaze balls at Pledge Music ("Zorn lost a total of $197,559"):

https://www.thewire.co.uk/news/55101/john-zorn-recoups-losses-from-pledge-music-bankruptcy

The Masada catalog (the original 10 albums) is finally getting reissued as a deluxe Tzadik box:

https://tzadik.limitedrun.com/products/748363-masada-30th-anniversary-edition-the-complete-studio-master-takes

$175 (or $250 for a signed copy). All the original music, plus a disc of bonus material (alternate takes, rehearsals) and a thick book of essays etc.

I don't typically go for fancy box sets, but that one is damn tempting

Oh, and Tzadik's entire catalog is on streaming services now.

What, seriously!?

WHAT

way to bury the lede man

xxxp but still not on Bandcamp, smdh

holy shit

I AM LISTENING TO CLASSIC GUIDE TO STRATEGY V.4 ON TIDAL RIGHT NOW

They must be slowly rolling out all 300 or whatever releases, no Naked City or Masada on Spotify yet, or formative stuff like Big Gundown or Spy v. Spy, afaict.

Some of the Great Jewish Music comps are there but not Serge Gainsbourg or Burt Bacharach. Still, this is momentous.

My family is going to hate me. On the other hand, dinner time just got more interesting.

Holy fuck

Holy cow

I'm generally above feelings of fomo, but some of these 70th celebrations make me jealous. I wish my fall weren't as full of commitments, otherwise I'd be looking at flights to, like, Mexico City.

I've been in a 'listening project' mode lately (Art Blakey, Wu-Tang), but this is overwhelming to contemplate.

My unemployment is doing corrosive damage to my Zorn fandom

So far it's really hard to search on Spotify, which makes it hard to tell what's there or not. Still not sure Naked City or OG Masada is up, but lots of Masada related stuff is. Live albums, New Masada stuff, other collections. I believe all of Film Works is up, obviously tons of other stuff, including countless records I've never heard because, yeah, there's a limit (practical, financial) to keeping up.

Just did a search on John Zorn and I see a lot more albums on his page today vs yesterday. Another option is to put this in the search box:

Label: "Tzadik"

Huh, that got me worse results. That is, none.

I do see "Big Gundown" now, so things are moving.

Obviously there are tons of albums and artists in this drop, maybe it's clogging up the works a bit. But another example, I get nothing if I search for "Painted Desert," and that's whether or not I search for Ikue Mori, Marc Ribot or Robert Quine. I assume it's all trickling in.

Some of the stuff that's not up on streamers yet has been put up on Youtube in the past day or so, with notes saying "Provided to Youtube by Redeye Worldwide," which is Tzadik's distributor. Seems like a good sign.

One bad thing is some artist misattribution, like some of the Book of Angels volumes only have JZ as the artist, and don't include the actual players. Like vol 1, Astaroth, only artist listed is JZ, but no Jamie Saft Trio.

I'm putting as much as I can in this playlist. It's a work in progress, so please don't send messages pointing out what I missed yet.

https://spotify.link/KV97uSnNsDb

We might need a separate thread for spelunking through the catalog

I think it's impossible lol. Whiney dedicated like a year of his life to it, and where did that get him? Behind!

xp definitely!

There is this — Tzadik: Search & Destroy — but a new thread seems like a good idea.

I'm happy to discuss here or elsewhere. I really need to devise a way to keep track of things I want to dig into more. Right now I'm just shuffling through masses of stuff, trying to remember the things that catch my attention, but there's just too much goodness.

Oh, I'm not trying to be a completist by any means, but there's certainly a lot in there that I've been intrigued by for years. I'm more than content dipping in and out.

I wonder what made him finally do it, and why they went straight to streaming without trying Bandcamp (or maybe that's still to come).

I really really hope they do Bandcamp as well, that's all I use

Ha, I like the "A Tzadik Classic!" label applied to some of these - https://www.tzadik.com/catalog.php?view=date

I also love that Julian Lage has been spending so much time in the Zorn-verse

Is Joey Baron no longer working regularly with Zorn?

I guess not? I listened to a nearly three hour podcast interview with him and it was insane to me that Zorn/Masada never came up.

Ok let's go https://www.ilxor.com/ILX/NewAnswersControllerServlet?boardid=41

Oops - At the Mountains of Madness: Tzadik Records catalog now streaming

Speaking of the original Masada quartet, I see that Tzadik is coming out with a limited run box set of the 10 original quartet CDs, previously only available on DIW Japan. Pricey but tempting.

Oops, missed the fact that this was posted above. I was distracted by the streaming news.

Just watched this clip from 10 years ago, it rules:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4eO2o9u1j0