REM: Classic or dud?

"Belong" – 4:03--Awesome - I'm glad you like this. Always wondered what it was about?

a mother blessing her child, right? in that q&a thing perpetua hosted a few years back j. michael claimed he stopped doing autobiographical songs by around pageant iirc. anyways, interesting subject matter for a childless man of his persuasion

Murmur: A-
Reckoning: B
Fables of the Reconstruction: B-
Life's Rich Pageant: A
Document: B+
Green: A
Out of Time: B
Automatic: A-
Monster: C+
New Adventures: A-
Up: B
Reveal: B-
Around The Sun: D
Accelerate: C
Collapse into Now: B-

if this is what we are doing now:

Chronic town: A+
Murmur: A
Reckoning: B
Fables of the Reconstruction: A-
Life's Rich Pagaent: B
Document: B-
Green: C-
Out of Time: C+
Automatic for the People: A-
Monster: A
New Adventures in Hi-Fi: A+
Up: B
Reveal: C-
Around the Sun: D
Accelerate: B-
Collapse Into Now: B

Re: Out Of Time

sometimes it sounds like a weak version of 'green' (sorta the same way "finest work song part ii" -- "turn you inside-out" -- made 'green' come off a little weak (though i prefer 'green' to 'document'!)

― reggie (qualmsley)

Yeah, this is pretty much one of the reasons I've personally ended up rating it ***.5

With a couple of exceptions, 'Green' mostly features shorter, snappier tracks, and even the mandolin-based ballads have a feeling of urgency towards them in my opinion. There are a couple of tracks on 'Out Of Time' which feel a little more sprawling, and don't quite engage me in the same way. I don't particularly feel that 'Out Of Time' is as strong a batch of songs as either album that came before and after it, either.

The final thing I noticed about 'Out Of Time' is that even though it has somewhat of a defined 'style' to it, at the same time (and in an odd way), it FEELS far more of a schizophrenic experience than listening to 'Green'. 'Green' had its more rockier, poppier tracks like 'Pop Song 89' and 'Stand' and the mandolin/acoustic ballads like 'You Are The Everything', but the songs seemed to integrate very well. 'Out Of Time' seems much more mood-swingy to me... I guess you could say a small example of this is the difference between 'Losing My Religion' and 'Shiny Happy People', but there are more extreme examples: the record has 'Country Feedback' but also 'Near Wild Heaven'... it has 'Low' and 'Belong' but it also has 'Radio Song' and 'Me In Honey' - it FEELS far more of a bumpier ride, mood-wise and doesn't have the sustained feeling of urgency that characterised 'Green', nor the sense of sombre mood and songwriting consistency that characterized 'Automatic For The People'. I think the mood-swingy nature of the record harms 'Out Of Time' rather than helps it.

1. Radio Song - I love the 'world is collapsing around our ears' parts, but the rest of the track does nothing for me. I find the rap at the end a bit embarrassing too.

2. Losing My Religion - I've noticed there are people here who don't like the track, but let's face it - most bands would give their testicles to write a song as good as this and have what was an unlikely hit with it.

3. Low - Kills the momentum dead on the third track, as far as I'm concerned. I really like the parts where Stipe sings 'you and ME, we know about TIME', but the moment comes a little late into the track for me.

4. Near Wild Heaven - Absolutely gorgeous. Fully deserved to be a single and one of my highlights of 'Out Of Time'.

5. Endgame - I like it, but it's not essential and comes a little early in the album for me. The track sequencing on this album is a bit all over the shop, I think.

6. Shiny Happy People - Yep, pure pop masterpiece. Nothing wrong with this song whatsoever. Love the fact that the intro and the bridge are in 3/4 time. Nice riff, and love the way the vocals are all spread out in the chorus.

7. Belong - Absolutely love the bass in this, but I do remember listening to this for the first time years ago and thinking 'ah, they've used the same idea in the chorus as they did for 'Orange Crush'. As a song in its own right, it is underrated though and a bit of a grower.

8. Half A World Away - Pure perfection, I could not fault this track at all.

9. Texarkana - Sounds fine while the album is playing, but upon closer scrutiny just completely falls apart. A good, listenable well crafted song that is merely okay. Aside from that bass fill. Love that bass fill.

10. Country Feedback - Again, pure perfection. I could not fault this track at all.

11. Me In Honey - Suffers incredibly for me, not least because it comes after 'Country Feedback' in the tracklist. 'Me In Honey' is a bit of a lightweight composition for me to begin with, but coming after 'Country Feedback' makes it seem even MORE lightweight. Don't get me wrong, I kind of understand WHY they put this as the last track, as a bit of respite after 'Country Feedback's emotional heaviness - but it's precisely the emotional heaviness of 'Country Feedback' which makes 'Me In Honey' seem not-so-hot in comparison.

"Me in Honey" has shades of darkness. Listen to those chords and the Stipe-Pierson vocals.

Mr. Que's "Out Of Time" review is how all albums should be reviewed. Truly inspiring piece of writing, sir. And, indeed, "Shiny Happy People" deserves the middle finger.

Just checked your ratings too, qualmsley... our ratings match for about 9 albums! Not too bad given that you regularly listen to REM and this is the first time I've binge-listened to them for about 9 years!

"Me in Honey" has shades of darkness. Listen to those chords and the Stipe-Pierson vocals.

― Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, September 30, 2011 5:41 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

Ahh, I'm sorry Soto, I just don't hear it - certainly not musically, anyway. To me it's always come across as a folk number with two chords in it. Lyrically, I suppose there is more depth there than the track lets on, but I just don't quite feel the backing track brings out whatever depth is there - and again, coming after 'Country Feedback', quite a lot is going to feel lightweight... maybe they should have had 'Country Feedback' as the final track... might have ended the album on a bit of a depressing note, but I honestly couldn't see what else on the album could have followed it.

I like how dusky it sounds.

'Dusky'? You're going to have to elaborate on that one! If someone asked me to pick a track on 'Out Of Time' that felt 'dusky', I would have probably have gone with 'Low'!

oh, grades!

Chronic Town: A
Murmur: A
Reckoning: A-
Fables: A-
Pageant: A
Dead Letter Office: A-
Document: B
Green: B+
OOT: B+
Automatic: A-
Monster: B
Hi-Fi: B-
Up: C+

After that I have no idea at all.

(And if you get the CD version of Dead Letter Office with Chronic Town added, it becomes an A+ and possibly the best REM album)

"1. Radio Song - I love the 'world is collapsing around our ears' parts, but the rest of the track does nothing for me. I find the rap at the end a bit embarrassing too."

no offense against krs1 but the acoustic 'unplugged' rendition rescues this song somewhat. still, REM's careerism (hey DJs you suck, your same sing song makes me sad (if you don't play my songs)) is not why i love these guys

"Near Wild Heaven" always sounded like the Moody Blues to me.

"maybe they should have had 'Country Feedback' as the final track"

not a bad idea! (just as long as "me in honey" is somewhere on there)

"i remember california" (dirge) --> "untitled" (uptempo) > "country feedback" (dirge) --> "me in honey" (uptempo)

another reason why 'out of time' seems a little tired to me after 'green.' not that each of those songs don't rule individually. but 'out of time' winning hosannas after 'green' seemed a little to my like russell crowe winning the oscar for 'gladiator' after 'inside job'

no offense against krs1 but the acoustic 'unplugged' rendition rescues this song somewhat. still, REM's careerism (hey DJs you suck, your same sing song makes me sad (if you don't play my songs)) is not why i love these guys

Oh, no offence against KRS-One from my side as well. I just don't think it was a brilliant idea to have him on a REM track! Haven't seen that MTV Unplugged thing since the mid '90s at the very least (although I watched their second 'Unplugged' set quite recently) - going to check that out on Youtube now...

"i remember california" (dirge) --> "untitled" (uptempo) > "country feedback" (dirge) --> "me in honey" (uptempo)

another reason why 'out of time' seems a little tired to me after 'green.' not that each of those songs don't rule individually. but 'out of time' winning hosannas after 'green' seemed a little to my like russell crowe winning the oscar for 'gladiator' after 'inside job'

Yes, I definitely agree with this. The whole 'Country Feedback' -> 'Me In Honey' sequence is kinda a replication of the 'California' -> 'Untitled' thing from 'Green', but I feel it worked well on 'Green', not least because 'I Remember California' is much, much less emotionally heavy than 'Country Feedback'.

Funnily enough, whenever I read bickering about how REM became a different band when they signed their Warner Bros. contracts, I always feel like saying 'well not really, because 'I Remember California' is pretty much cut from the same cloth as 'Oddfellows Local 151', and probably would have fitted snugly on Fables...'

Best part of "Shiny Happy People" is Buck's expression in the video.

First REM show was this:

11 November 1983 - Beverly Theater, Los Angeles, CA
support: The Neats, Let's Active
set: Gardening At Night / 9-9 / Windout / Burning Down / Talk About The Passion / Pilgrimage / Seven Chinese Brothers / So. Central Rain / Wolves, Lower / Harborcoat / Sitting Still / Pretty Persuasion / Catapult / Just A Touch / West Of The Fields / Second Guessing / Radio Free Europe
encore 1: Moral Kiosk / Camera / Pale Blue Eyes / We Walk / 1,000,000
encore 2: 20th Century Boy / Crazy / Carnival Of Sorts (Boxcars) / Skank

The Chronic: A

lol. rem's lost west-coast gangsta-rap album.

My only REM show:

6 April 1989 - Richfield Coliseum, Cleveland, OH
support: Indigo Girls
set: Pop Song 89 / Exhuming McCarthy / Welcome To The Occupation / Disturbance At The Heron House / Turn You Inside-Out / Driver 8 / Cuyahoga / Feeling Gravitys Pull / The One I Love / Orange Crush / World Leader Pretend / Begin The Begin / Pretty Persuasion / I Believe / Get Up / Auctioneer (Another Engine) / It's The End Of The World As We Know It (And I Feel Fine)
encore 1: Stand / I Remember California / You Are The Everything
encore 2: Finest Worksong / King Of Birds / See No Evil
encore 3: Crazy / Perfect Circle / After Hours

So has anyone's grade slate spelled out "ABACAB" yet?

• Chronic Town: A+
• Murmur: A+
• Reckoning: A
• Fables: A+
• Pageant: A
• Dead Letter Office: B
• Document: B+
• Green: B
• OOT: B-
• Automatic: A-
• Monster: B
• Hi-Fi: B
• Up: C

My first R.E.M. show:

8 May 1985 - McGaw Memorial Hall, Northwestern University, Evanston, IL
support: The Neats
set: Feeling Gravitys Pull / Harborcoat / Kohoutek / Driver 8 / Seven Chinese Brothers / Can't Get There From Here / Maps And Legends / So. Central Rain / Green Grow The Rushes / Hyena / Talk About The Passion / Auctioneer (Another Engine) / Old Man Kensey / Pretty Persuasion / Life And How To Live It / Little America
encore 1: Second Guessing / (Don't Go Back To) Rockville / Just A Touch
encore 2: Theme From Two Steps Onward / Laughing / Tired Of Singing Trouble / Gardening At Night / 9-9 / Unknown / Windout
encore 3: We Walk / Sitting Still

My second (and last) R.E.M. show:

4 November 1987 - Circle Pavillion, University of Illinois, Chicago, IL
support: The dB's
set: Finest Worksong / These Days / Harborcoat / Disturbance At The Heron House / Fall On Me / Exhuming McCarthy / Orange Crush / Feeling Gravitys Pull / King Of Birds / White Tornado / Cuyahoga / Tired Of Singing Trouble / I Believe / Maps And Legends / Superman / Auctioneer (Another Engine) / Oddfellows Local 151 / It's The End Of The World As We Know It (And I Feel Fine) / Begin The Begin
encore 1: Strange / Wolves, Lower / Driver 8 / Just A Touch
encore 2: The One I Love / Pop Song 89 / See No Evil
encore 3: Harpers / Crazy / After Hours

Have no memory whatsoever of "Pop Song 89" or "See No Evil." Definitely remember "After Hours," though.

Man I wish Northwestern would bother to host cool bands again.

My recollection is that R.E.M. was far-and-away the coolest band they hosted in the 80s (the other bands being General Public, Simple Minds, and Santana).

Yeah, I know its never really been a hotbed for concerts, but since I live so close now it would be great.

Gah, i'd love to have seen Let's Active live. 'Crazy, Perfect Circle, After Hours' = ideal REM encore.

chronic town - A+
murmur - A+
reckoning - A
fables - B-
lifes rich paegaent - B+
document - B+
green - B
out of time - B
automatic - A
monster - B-
new adventures - A-
up - C-
reveal - D
around the sun - F
accelerate - D+
collapse into now - D+

You know, I've got 'Accelerate' on now, and in a kind of way I wish they'd brought back Scott Litt to produce it... I really like a lot of the material on the record, and I definitely think Jacknife Lee hindered the record rather than helped it.

anyone ever own/ see a copy of this?

http://cdn.stereogum.com/files/2011/07/rem-radio-free-europe-1981-cover.jpg

i feel like i must have at least seen one over the years but can't be sure.

Is that the single that Peter Buck apparently smashed in disgust?

Don't quite understand people who give Chronic Town and Murmur an A and then Reckoning a B. I seem to remember being a tiny bit disappointed upon first hearing when it was released but I can't remember why- because you could understand the words a little bit better? but quickly getting over that.

I gave Reckoning a lower grade because it has a couple of stink bombs.

Can't remember which those were, but that one has so many stone classics that I'm willing to overlook few like that. The first one that I really didn't like that much and never warmed up to was Fables. Then Life's Rich Pageant seemed to be a return to form and after that it was fasten your seatbelts bumpy ride time. Suspect I should give Fables another chance.

"Time After Time" is my least favorite song!

"Camera" too.

I gave it an A-.

You gave it a B+! Between this and the Elvis Costello opener confusion, some of us might worry that you are developing early onset Alfzeimer's

"Time After Time" is a rare drone that I love, but "Camera" is a just a drag.

It's probably my 2nd favorite REM album after Out Of Time, though. "Letter Never Sent" is a peak, when all four artists lock in on their own thing & make something greater together: it's like a machine in perfect arrangement, even though each part may waver on its own.

"camera" is amazing and sad

what is it with you people

I gave Reckoning a slightly higher grade than Murmur because I think virtually every single one of the tracks on there has merit, with possibly 'Second Guessing' and 'Letter Never Sent' being the two minor moments on the LP for me. Having said that, they're both short and snappy, and have great backing vocals, and I have plenty of time for both of them. Murmur on the other hand, while I appreciate that it was a landmark record for its time and continues to sound timeless, I've never been fond of 'Moral Kiosk' or 'We Walk', and I feel Reckoning, while it lacks the 'distance' and 'mood' of Murmur, has stronger songs on it than 'Catapult' and '9-9', hence the slightly higher rating. Although I must add, I like both 'Catapult' and '9-9' a lot.

You gave it a B+! Between this and the Elvis Costello opener confusion, some of us might worry that you are developing early onset Alfzeimer's

Looooooong week, man.

I kinda figured that.

I found my copy of that Hib-Tone single the other day, I was afraid it had disappeared in the last move. Those versions of "Radio Free Europe" and "Sitting Still" (which I prefer) are included on the And I Feel Fine... comp.

Man, LRP is holding up really well. Just realized there is a little break in "Superman" that sounds like it came from the early Beatles - "Hold Me Tight," I think.

I always kinda slept on LRP, rediscovered it a couple years ago, and now really think it's one of their best records. (Nice it seemed to get a lot of favorable mentions here.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvbGYt6KlJw

The whole story of how they got the title is great too.

"Fall On Me" has a snatch of melody that sounds like it came from "Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey."

And something else maybe not on this album seemed to cop the first bars of "Knowing Me/Knowing You" but now I can't remember what it was.

Every R.E.M. album is like A or A-.

Also, "Me in Honey" is about pregnancy and breakup, right? Certainly not lightweight imo.

Male pregnancy according to Q, who occasionally liked to make things up.

Seems fairly clear - "Baby's got a baby with me/That's a part, that's a part of me!"

LRP is patchy as shit after Cuyahoga

i hate that kid for being able to play underneath the bunker better than me.