_Avatar_, directed by James Cameron

man i can't wait to see if they make an animatronic version of...oh that's right the characters are all boring cliches whose names no one remembers

was discussing this w/ friends today, but I'm kind of bothered at what I perceive as the hypocritical posturing of cinemagoing laypersons against Avatar. Like they don't just dislike it, they wear it as a badge of honor, to demonstrate that they are 'above' such material.

I wouldn't attach such a label to the posters here, because hell you all know way more about movies than I do, but I mean I get kind of sick of arguing with friends in public who just got back from some equally vacuous second-tier tearjerker drama Oscar-bait that happens to pull all the right strings that somehow believe that these pieces are inherently superior to Avatar.

I mean Avatar's plot was threadbare, pedestrian, and didn't have any subtext at ALL, but it was at least functional and didn't get in the way of the visuals (much like a mediocre rapper could have a hit song if he has a killer beat and 'doesn't get in the way' of it). Many of the people who slagged Avatar were fans of "The Town" which had a plot that was equally cookie cutter, no?

idk...I mean doesn't even Morbs like this movie? I loved it and still do.

I mean Avatar's plot was threadbare, pedestrian, and didn't have any subtext at ALL,

You're pretty liberal with your "love." So you can actually sit through this at home?

Many of the people who slagged Avatar were fans of "The Town" which had a plot that was equally cookie cutter, no?

Why would you or anyone equate some massive monocultural event with some random Boston heist movie? I've never heard these brought up in the same sentence. In fact, I've never heard anyone bring up "The Town," ever. In any context.

so you don't know people then?

ie the point was movies with equally generic plot points often get free passes whereas Avatar gets shit on because it's not The Battle of Algiers with blue people

I just never thought of the two films being remotely comparable, but I get it. Anyway, I think the reason people might hypothetically like "The Town" more than "Avatar," despite the former's boilerplate tendencies, is that it has good acting and writing going for it (right?). But "Avatar," minus such apparent disposables as plot and subtext, doesn't have acting to fall back on, and does in fact have 10 foot tall blue people running around.

But really, you've seen "Avatar" multiple times, and I assume in 2-D at home as well? And it holds up for you? Genuinely curious, because I can't imagine sitting through it ever again, whether I liked it or not. Same with "Titanic." Like, pretty sure it would shrink in my estimation.

I actually haven't seen it multiple times, no. just the one theatre sitting.

I don't really think that is fair though as a comparison point though because up until three months ago, my home entertainment system was a piece of shit 5 year old TV and the built-in speakers that came with it.

So you've only seen it once, years ago, and you can honestly say you love "Avatar?"

See it again and get back to us.

I didn't realize love for films was based on the number of times you saw the movie?

pls let me know how many more times I need to watch k thx

still never saw this, do not wear that as a badge of honor, just don't give a fuck either way

can respect dat

I don't understand why people didn't have the uncanny valley problem with this movie.

i love some movies that i've only seen once, but i would definitely watch them again is the difference

Too busy hating cigar-chomping, racist, marine figurehead as he yells "Die! Die!" while shooting poor natives.

i don't full-on love avatar, but i like it a lot. saw it twice in the theater, and have seen it once on big-screen blu-ray since. by the third time through, it was starting to wear a little thin (and long), and absent the 3D, the wow factor drops a bit, but i still enjoyed it and would/will watch it again. and rewatchability isn't the ultimate cinematic virtue anyway. i probably won't watch tarkovsky's solaris too many times in my life, but that takes nothing away from the fact that i love it. anyway, the performances of both leads were quite good, and i loved the "10 foot tall blue people". it's a science fiction movie, and i'm a science fiction fan. giant blue cat people are an unambiguous plus.

i agree that the plot is routine, but cameron's sense of how to construct a narrative is still impeccable. avatar builds effectively, compresses and expands just where it needs to, and pulls of its emotional effects with masterful aplomb. i found both the love story and the popular uprising quite moving. though troublesome with regard to its use of the very tired "white savior" trope, i was also very impressed by the film's political message and commitment. few popular action-adventure movies deal so directly and bravely with contemporary political reality. finally, i think it did a great job of metaphorically telling the awful story of western imperial conquest. that it gave that story a happy ending, that did nothing to blunt its communication of the tragic truth. cameron's poignant fantasy only drives home the differences between the world he imagines and our own. we know that, in real life, countless indigenous peoples annihilated in the process. as a result, i found it a very bittersweet film.

I've been thinking about this movie recently, in regards to its huge success versus John Carter's abysmal failure (box office wise). They both have silly names dotted throughout and CGI alien people on alien worlds, and maybe the jungle paradise of Pandora with its fluorescent floating jellyfish is more appealing, but I would have thought the corny mother-Gaia vibes would have turned a lot of people off. My only real guess is that people say "James Cameron!" and then see Mech Warriors and are like "oh shit, bad ass".

I didn't care for Avatar when I saw in the cinema. I liked some of the visuals and the action scenes more when I saw it in 2D at home, but all the other bits were even worse.

The Town is a sub-Heat crime drama with a terrible ending, but I know a number of 'plebs' who rate it as one of the best movies in recent years because it's about as 'serious drama' as they'll likely see. Also, Renner's Cagney > Everything in Avatar tbh.

yeah, i was surprised that "john carter" wasn't sold as an avatar type sci-fi romance. the two films are similar in many respects, and avatar did quite well at the box office.

it was actually; when disney started full on freaking out, the ad campaign was "See the story that inspired STAR WARS and AVATAR"

and then people saw the title John Carter and thought it was a biopic about a controversial school administrator from the 80s

as opposed to when people saw the title Avatar, and thought it was about lj icons.

it kinda was

"They blew up the Hometree!"

Mood: SAD

yeah, that's generally the case when sad things happen in films

(whoosh!)

No badge to this, people can watch what they like and however many times they feel the need to get they want from it. I didn't get around bcz I usually have 10 films (old or new) I want to see every month and I only get round to about 3-4.

This is being premiered on UK TV tomorrow. Alas, I am instead attending a screening of a doc about an Iraqi Women's basketball team at the Human Rights festival.

But I'll have to check up on how indigeneous people were brutally destroyed by imperialist aggressors sometime. I'll get a bk out of the library or something.

it's a family-friendly adventure film, ffs. just hitting the basics of something like that is impressive enough.

jeez, just reread my defense from two hours back. so so so many dropped words and shitty constructions. yikes. not doing myself any favors there. and i think i used the word "very" like five times.

I don't really think the pro-indigenous/anti-imperialist-consumerist thing is THAT rare in Hollywood tbh. Ewoks weren't CEOs of the treehouse when the righteous Empire came marching in with their hybrid AT-STs.

hubristic edit, apologies in advance:

I don't full-on love avatar, but I do like it a lot. I saw it twice in the theater, in both 2 and 3D, and have seen it once on big-screen blu-ray since. By the third time through, it was starting to wear a bit thin (and long), but I still enjoyed it and will likely watch it again at some point. Rewatchability isn't the ultimate cinematic virtue, though. I probably won't feel compelled to watch Tarkovsky's Solyaris too many times in my life, but that takes nothing away from my admiration of the film. Anyway, the performances of Avatar's two leads were both quite good, I thought, and I loved the "10 foot tall blue people". it's a science fiction movie, and I'm an unrepentant science fiction fan. Giant blue cat people will always be a plus.

I agree that the plot is routine, but Cameron's sense of narrative flow and timing are still impeccable. Avatar builds effectively, compresses and expands just where it needs to, and pulls of its emotional effects with masterful aplomb. I found both the love story and the climactic popular uprising quite moving. Though it's troublesome with regard to its use of the "white savior" trope, I was impressed by the film's political message and commitment. Few popular action-adventure movies deal so directly and bravely with divisive political realities. Finally, i think Avatar does a great job of metaphorically telling the awful story of Western imperial conquest, and of giving that story the appropriate emotional and moral weight. That Cameron indulges himself in a crowd-pleasing happy ending does nothing to blunt Avatar's communication of the tragic truth. The fantastical elements of the story only drive home the differences between this imagined world and our own, where Gaia doesn't rise up at the end to repel technologically advanced invaders. As a result, i found it a very bittersweet film.

this movie might have been good if the lead character wasn't such a boring lump, it's aliens without ripley, the terminator without the terminator OR linda hamilton

also there's scenes involving mystical forest children laughing

Ewoks weren't CEOs of the treehouse when the righteous Empire came marching in with their hybrid AT-STs.

yeah, but ewoks do not so clearly stand for the victims of real-life genocide. and revenge of the jedi does not so bluntly drive home the message that the "evil empire" is us.

so what you're saying basically is that avatar is good because it ~makes u think~

I'm saying I appreciated its willingness to deal bluntly with some pretty heavy and divisive shit, both contemporary and historical. And I found the telling of the story involving and even moving. And it kicked ass, even with the laughing forest babies, white savior and shitty fonts.

Last Samurai and Dances with Wolves are just two examples of crappy movies that call out the US as the "evil empire".

As far as Gaia not rising up, I guess they can't all by Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within.

xpost

so what you're saying basically is that avatar is good because it ~makes u think~

i think what you're saying basically is "u liked avatar lol", which is cool, cuz i did

Last Samurai and Dances with Wolves are just two examples of crappy movies that call out the US as the "evil empire".

never seen last samurai. the similarities btwn avatar and dances with wolves are definitely there, and have been hashed to death besides. i liked dances with wolves at the time, but it's been ages, and i was rather young. no giant blue cat people, iirc.

also, Star Wars has its roots in coming up with a story from the perspective of the Vietcong fighting American Imperialism.

Avatar's message isn't bad, and I'm glad it's not a pean to the US Military-Industrial Complex the way the Transformers films are, but I don't think its bucking any trends. Hollywood roots for the underdogs.

also, i don't think that either the last samurai (rated R) or dances with wolves were quite as kid-friendly as avatar. in terms of the audience reached, the star wars films are a better comparison, imo.

My feelings are similar to Contenderizer's. I liked Avatar a hell of a lot. There's all kinds of things it doesn't do, but the things it does do are so abundant and wonderful. Ornament can be substance sometimes.

Maybe I missed it, but it seems shocking that certain elements of the Right didn't go after Avatar the way they've gone after The Muppets or The Lorax.

also, Star Wars has its roots in coming up with a story from the perspective of the Vietcong fighting American Imperialism.

Avatar's message isn't bad, and I'm glad it's not a pean to the US Military-Industrial Complex the way the Transformers films are, but I don't think its bucking any trends. Hollywood roots for the underdogs.

fine, but "rooting for the underdog" is not quite the same as making an explicitly political film about specific historical and contemporary issues. the fact that avatar tied the US invasions of iraq and afghanistan to the genocide of native peoples in the Americas, and opposed these things by unambiguously celebrating what might by some be called a "terrorist uprising" seems pretty impressive to me.

yes, pretty impressive for a hollywood movie to express liberal sentiments

oh, come on. they're not just "liberal sentiments". and it's not just a "hollywood movie". it's a family friendly summertime action-adventure sci-fi blockbuster. hardly the sort of place you typically find pointed critiques of american policy throughout history.

War of the Worlds has Tom Cruise actually grab an explosive and hurl himself into the belly an invading machine.

uh, okay...

i think that's a bit more subtle, but sure