TS: Paul McCartney's "Pipes of Peace" vs "Press to Play"

Who was the producer on "Press To Play" again? Hugh Padgham?

yep

Yeah... it's a bit odd, because I thought he did a fantastic job on XTC's "English Settlement", and I thought the drum sound he got for Copeland on The Police's "Synchronicity" was excellent, so I do usually like his productions, just not this particular one!

"Off The Ground" is OK IMO. Out of his most recent work, I have more of problem with "Driving Rain", which save for an excellent title track and a couple of nice ballads doesn't really contain all too much of value.

one of those things where i can't comprehend someone else enjoying it (besides my mother) -- i just dread "off the ground," it actually makes my head hurt just thinking about it (let alone hearing it). awful, awful music, only point where i've ever truly wanted to punch him in the face to get him to stop.

Yeah... it's a bit odd, because I thought he did a fantastic job on XTC's "English Settlement", and I thought the drum sound he got for Copeland on The Police's "Synchronicity" was excellent, so I do usually like his productions, just not this particular one!

Padgam was still very much a Steve Lillywhite protege at the time of those. Not so much anymore by the time he got to "Press To Play" and other 1983 works of his like "Invisible Touch" by Genesis.

Off the Ground has some seriously great songs (Looking for Changes, Mistress and Maid, The Lovers that Never Were) that I wouldn't admit to enjoying in public. Soooo much dross though.

Driving Rain is just awesome, although I agree almost completely with Turrican's rejections (Freedom puts all music everywhere to shame). Chaos and Creation is mostly good and Memory Almost Full is average.

Hey, Autumn. Yeah, those songs you've mentioned are some of my personal highlights of Off The Ground too... The Lovers That Never Were especially, which I think is up there as one of McCartney's best solo tunes!

"Off The Ground" first and foremost has "Golden Earth Girl" and "C'Mon People", which are both Paul at his best. Some of the "rock" songs I can do without, but "The Lovers That Never Were" is just as great as most of his other Costello-collaborations.

"Chaos and Creation" is not just "mostly good" IMO. It's just plain great, verging on fantastic. His best solo work since "Tug Of War" and his second best overall.

I like both "Golden Earth Girl" and "C'Mon People", but personally I don't really feel that they're the best tracks on the album, let alone McCartney at his best.

I do agree with you about "Chaos And Creation In The Backyard", though - it is truly fantastic and one of McCartney's best ever solo albums. Up there with "Flowers In The Dirt" for me.

Man, "Pretty Little Head" is so great. Even in a career absolutely strewn with bizarre lyrics foisted onto pop singles, it really stands out.

Hillmen are sworn to allegiance
Living a life of silent dignity
For your protection, only so you
Don't worry - your pretty little head!

Now that's what I want from McCartney - sorry Geir! "Only Love Remains" and "Once Upon A Long Ago" are total snoozes by comparison. At least dude was trying to stretch himself; it happened to be in the direction of a really square conception of "artiness" circa 1985 but I'll take it. "Hillsmen! Hillsmen!"

_Yeah... it's a bit odd, because I thought he did a fantastic job on XTC's "English Settlement", and I thought the drum sound he got for Copeland on The Police's "Synchronicity" was excellent, so I do usually like his productions, just not this particular one!_

Padgam was still very much a Steve Lillywhite protege at the time of those. Not so much anymore by the time he got to "Press To Play" and other 1983 works of his like "Invisible Touch" by Genesis.

Geir was dead right about this – people are missing what Padgam was hired to bring to Press To Play. It wasn't XTC or the Ghost in the Machine-era Police. It was Invisible Touch-era Genesis – the enormous gated drums and sampled atmospherics of "Tonight, Tonight, Tonight." If you need any proof that this was a Big 80s Production Experiment, note that each song has a drawing by Paul in the liner notes of what sounds are mixed where along the stereo spectrum.

This is entirely consistent with Paul's approach in the 70s of nicking a sound he loved for his own purposes – Aja on "Arrow Through Me," Armed Forces on "Getting Closer," Before and After Science on "Summer's Day Song." It's one of the things I love about Paul and, hence, why PTP wins this for me as pretty much the whole record adopts this approach with success. And lest I be accused of fetishizing the approach over the music, I should note that Paul attempts the same thing with the Trevor Horn/Steve Lipson stuff on Flowers in the Dirt – and just about completely flubs it.

A few other points worth making: the Eric Stewart collaboration starting on Tug of War was generally a really fruitful one for Paul and "However Absurd" and "Footprints" on PTP are excellent. The latter is a minor masterpiece – the production is detailed, the melody and arrangement surprise and the lyric is pretty cool as well. OTOH, "It's Not True" (a solo credit btw) is Paul's full-throated defense of Linda and it fucking sucks.

Not to nitpick, but PTP was released in September '86, only six or eight weeks after IT. He may have wanted Big Happening Sounds but he couldn't have known IT would become a monster.

Fair enough – tho Padgham also worked on all the 80s Phil Collins stuff to that point as well. So Paul clearly had plenty of opportunities to familiarize himself with that sound.

Definitely. Especially his work for the Police, revered by boomers. There's an anecdote from '83 in which Mick Jagger asks Jim Barber "to play like Andy Summers."

reissue business!

http://theseconddisc.com/2015/07/30/together-in-perfect-harmony-paul-mccartneys-tug-of-war-and-pipes-of-peace-join-archive-collection/

The Pipes of Peace 2-CD Special Edition consists of the original album plus a 9-track bonus disc including Spike Stent’s new 2015 remix of “Say Say Say,” demos of three album tracks, outtakes “It’s Not On” and “Simple As That,” the previously unreleased “Christian Bop” and more.

plus Tug.. gets a remixed version of the whole album?!

Wow, I wonder what the story is with the remix. I'll be especially looking forward to hearing that and the unreleased tracks.

from the comments, unsure how true it is - I should explain why “Tug of War” has been remixed. While the 1982 multitrack tapes are analog, the original mixes were done at 44.1Khz/16-bit digital(all that was possible in 1982). The only way to create a 24-bit high resolution audio version of the album(for the high resolution download whose coupon will inevitably come with the boxed set) was to create a new 96Khz/24-bit mix.

Minute and a half clip of "Tug of War" on iTunes (or you can buy the whole song for $1.29). Sounds really good. Seems like you can tell just from the clip how much the clarity and definition is going to be improved.

Here's the new "Take It Away" in "single edit" form - free download:

http://www.paulmccartney.com/news-blogs/news/free-download-take-it-away-single-edit-2015-remaster

Pretty surprising sounding. Close to mono and some things with more emphasis in the mix. One of my first thoughts was that there's not a lot of bass, but it's cool to hear a different take on it that emphasizes some different things.

I don't like it - much prefer the original mix.

I'm thinking now that this is the old mix! I'm listening on headphones and I can't tell placement differences. (Not as close to mono as I thought.)

It must be. Quite a different sounding mastering job.

I'm not absolutely 100% certain on this, but I have a feeling that the next album that George Martin worked on after Tug Of War was Quartet by Ultravox. Tug Of War was recorded October 1980-December 1981, along with some of Pipes Of Peace, and then there were additional sessions for Pipes Of Peace in September/October 1982 and February/July 1983. Quartet came out in October 1982, so I'm guessing that George Martin was working on that in between the release of Tug Of War and the sessions picking up again for Pipes Of Peace.

I'm thinking now that this is the old mix! I'm listening on headphones and I can't tell placement differences.

― timellison, Tuesday, August 25, 2015 12:28 AM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I haven't done a side-by-side comparison of the two yet, but my immediate thoughts were "lack of bass" and "there's something off about the drums here" ... I hope to god this is deliberately a poor-quality version, because it sounded quite static-y, and when the "aaaaaaahs" came in at the end with the horns (the best moment of the song for me) it seemed to lack clarity.

Yeah, it's super trebly. The "Tug of War" remix clip on iTunes is still a major reason for hope!

Tug of War/Pipes of Peace "micro-site":

http://archivecollections.tow-pop.paulmccartney.com/

http://radio.com/2015/09/24/classic-mccartney-wonder-duet-ebony-and-ivory-remixed/

I haven't heard the remixed version yet but the demos on the deluxe of Tug of War are worth hearing. The demo of "Take It Away" reveals the song to be very much a typical Paulie piano pounder, as opposed to the LA Express-ified final version.

"The Pound Is Sinking" loses the Uncle Albert-accent for its "Well I fear my dear/That it's eminently clear" bridge which makes it end of an oddly melancholy note.

"Wanderlust" is really nice in this stripped down form, just Wurlitzer piano, bass, drums, and vocals.

The best demo may be"Ebony and Ivory," which is all dreamy Rhodes and harmonies, and sounds like a sequel to "Waterfalls."

Not all of them are awesome. "Ballroom Dancing" already veered just shy of hokey and loses most of its momentum in demo form. But basically, the whole thing reinforces my belief that George Martin overproduced this record by some distance.

Yeah the "ebony" demo is lovely. Like often with macca, behind the sometimes annoying arrangements, there's a nice little song (and I don't even hate the final version of "ebony").
I wish that demo was longer.
There's also a great basic demo of "band on the run" if I remember well.

http://youtu.be/EkfdG1K_suM

Is that old or contemporary? Sounds like something Macca would do on tour now, or have playing over footage to set the mood before a show. Just going on the quality of his voice there.

'Ballroom Dancing' was always more than a bit crap though, IMO. I've never liked it.

Good question !
Apparently it's from the dvd deluxe reissue. I would guess it's old but not sure...

'Ballroom Dancing' was always more than a bit crap though, IMO. I've never liked it.

No, I get that, but there is something about the plinky plonky Abba groove and melody that I've liked -- plus his vocal when he jumps up an octave is just outstanding.

Love this demo version of "My Brave Face." McCartney and Costello sound like they're having so much fun harmonizing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-zrV_wIH34

Looking forward to this reissue. I'm still put off by the fact McCartney is skipping over albums in this remaster campaign.

he's listening to them to the first time

Hillmen! Hillmen! Hillmen! Hillmen!
Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh!

I think most of 'Press To Play" is glorious ( first time listener) and "Talk More Talk" is an earworm.

Ursa major….. ursa minor…..

I played PRESS TO PLAY for the first time ever, a few months ago, and I recall being struck by just one song (whatever it was).

PIPES OF PEACE, I think it's been longer since I heard but it has to be better -- the title track alone is a masterpiece.

PIPES OF PEACE also contains a song that I now recall is called 'average person' which is a remarkable Macca attempt to get at the ordinary life that was no longer his.

'only love remains' must be the good one on PRESS TO PLAY.

A very divisive album this “Press To Play”. Where many hear absolute crap I hear Macca and technology playing beautifully off each other. Lyrically possibly a banal mess but I’m kinda wowed by the machine slickness. Even the wailing sax on some of this feels right. At least moreso than the occasional wailing electrig gtr solos.

He plays a few of those wailing electric guitar solos too.

The weird machine reggae verses of "Good Times Coming" with those occasional ghostly pads/samples(?) floating in is just WOW. The use of gritty Emulator sampling thruout this album is superb, btw.

This is a fine headphone album.

Tracks 1-4 are a wonderful run.

yeah "Good Times Coming" is quietly a major standout for me. the transition into the chorus gets stuck in my head all the time.

I always forget that “It’s Not True” and “Tough on a Tightrope” were CD bonus tracks on Press To Play. The latter is quite good. The former is a really weird defense of Linda:

Some People say she's a bad girl
Some people think she's a fool
Some people tell me she's no good
But I'm telling you
It's not true, it's not true, it's not true
They say that my girl's a mad girl
No saying what she might do
Some people tell me she's crazy.
But I'm telling you
It's not true, it's not true, it's not true
Ooh...ooh...ooh...They've been talking to the fellas
Ooh...ooh...ooh...Have they never heard of jealousy?
Ooh...ooh...ooh...If she helps me write the melody
I'll let the words take care of themselves.
It's not true, it's not true, it's not true
It's not true, it's not true, it's not true
Ooh...ooh...ooh...They've been talking to the fellas
Ooh...ooh...ooh...Have they never heard of jealousy?
Ooh...ooh...ooh...If she helps me write the memories
I'll let the words take care of themselves.
Some people say she's a loser
Some people tell me that she's through
Some people say I don't love her
But I'm telling you
It's not true, it's not true, it's not true
What they're saying about her isn't true
Don't you know it isn't true?
It's not true...