this Saturday is SABR Day in America (and elsewhere)

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I was thinking that the value added by having a hitter in that 9th spot must be huge if most teams just have a blackhole there but it occurred to me that a) even the best pitcher hitter only hits every 4-5 games and b) will only rarely hit throughout the entire game, so it's probably not as huge an impact as I was imagining.

Mordy, Monday, 5 September 2011 14:41 (eight years ago) link

they should realistically be compared to a generic replacement pitcher-hitter

As a practical matter, I agree. I'm wondering if the sum of all the WARs on a team are supposed to add up to something that mirrors actual results--that if replacement value is deemed to be .450, then all the WARs, plus and minus, sum to however many wins the team is over .450 (=73 wins). I don't know, but that would explain why a pitcher's hitting can only be compared to a real hitter.

clemenza, Monday, 5 September 2011 15:20 (eight years ago) link

I was wondering today if there's a stat that calculates ERA in light of the fact that the later into a game a pitcher goes, the more tired he gets. Something that could take poor managing out of the quantification - maybe something that would weight late innings pitched in a game more heavily than early innings (so that the first inning pitched w/out runs isn't worth the same as the eighth inning pitched w/out runs). I don't think ERA already does this... is there something that does?

Mordy, Tuesday, 6 September 2011 04:28 (eight years ago) link

I believe there is a "close and late" stat. Not just late in the game, but with a further provision that the effort is of high-leverage. Let me poke around.

citation needed (Steve Shasta), Tuesday, 6 September 2011 05:18 (eight years ago) link

It looks like ESPN used to have it available as a "situational" statistic, but it's not showing up for 2011 data.

citation needed (Steve Shasta), Tuesday, 6 September 2011 05:23 (eight years ago) link

I'm not sure if this is what you mean, but Baseball Reference gives detailed inning-by-inning stats for every pitcher. They're not cumulative, though--you'd have to calculate that yourself. Verlander: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=verlaju01&year=2011&t=p. They also split a pitcher's line so you can see what he did in innings 1-3, 4-6, and 7-9. Verlander's ERA is 2.30 in 1-3, 2.60 in 4-6, and (smaller sample, but to me still amazing) 1.88 in 7-9. When they pull him out of a game in the 8th or 9th inning, they should bring him back in to close for himself.

clemenza, Tuesday, 6 September 2011 11:13 (eight years ago) link

http://itsaboutthemoney.net/archives/2011/09/06/is-war-the-new-rbi/

discus

NoTimeBeforeTime, Tuesday, 6 September 2011 21:10 (eight years ago) link

I found myself agreeing with a lot of this. There are too many weird year to year fluctuations in many players' defensive WAR numbers, I don't trust those numbers very much.

NoTimeBeforeTime, Tuesday, 6 September 2011 21:13 (eight years ago) link

dumb question i should look up but cant be bothered

whatever offensive element used by WAR - wOBA or something.. does it account for each situational at bat? with enough plate appearances it should all wash out but does it make a differentiation between going 3/3 w/ 2 BB against John Lackey and the same line against Justin Verlander?

shouldnt pitching WAR be cross-relational to batting WAR faced that day and vice versa?

sanskrit, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 02:15 (eight years ago) link

Just the fact that there are 2 different computations of WAR makes it clear that it's not "finished." xp

Neyer's response:

http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/9/6/2408060/limits-of-war-zobrist-analysis

incredibly middlebrow (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 02:18 (eight years ago) link

Mordy, this is what I meant re WAR 2 weeks ago; look at the first and scond tables here:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/NL/2011-pitching-leaders.shtml

Halladay leads Lee in Pitching WAR (2nd list), but when their offensive and defensive contributions are added in (1st list), Halladay gets knocked down 0.1 and Lee is boosted 0.6.

incredibly middlebrow (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 18 September 2011 17:42 (eight years ago) link

one year passes...

find your regional meeting on the map here (you don't have to be a member to attend).

http://sabr.org/sabrday

there are a few on Feb 2, like D.C. (which has Sean Forman and Tim Kurkjian).

saltwater incursion (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 23 January 2013 16:20 (six years ago) link

happy SABR Day, what a fine occasion for the board's two dumbest football fans to knock each other cold.

saltwater incursion (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 26 January 2013 13:36 (six years ago) link

five years pass...

once again, check your local here

https://sabr.org/sabrday

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 25 January 2019 20:21 (ten months ago) link


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