edward gibbon's "the decline & fall of the roman empire": C/D?

u can't rely on all of Gibbon's history tbf, he wrote a long time ago and didn't have the sources available to later historians, never mind advances in archaeology. but one of the amazing things about DaF is how much of his interpretation remains valid and useful.

that said, many modern historians of the Roman Empire don't really hold with a model of decline and fall, or with the notion of outside invaders "destroying" the thing, as i understand it. you can make a good case that the Empire didn't end at all in lots of meaningful ways.

how big is the gap between the end of 'the twelve caesars' and the start of this

virtually non iirc

Domitian is last of 12 Caesars. okay, maybe about 40 or 50 years not really covered in DaF

the old penguin 'lives of the later caesars' seems to cover the gap. my housemate has borrowed my copy of gibbon, i am going to wait for him to finish it first. this will probably give me enough time to catch up on that and reread suetonius

yeah, almost none - the set-up chapters sort of cover the nerva-antonine period immediately after the 12 Caesars, though the detailed narrative really kicks in after that.

I don't really mind it not being of great historical value, more that it seemed like a time of great history and characters, if that makes sense?

definitely, tho the characters get blurry at times. but don't get me wrong, Gibbon is still v. valuable and influential as history too.

also, gifted anti-christian troll.

downloaded vol 1 free today, started it this morning. The writing is great and the whole thing appeals to my little boy fantasies.

wow this sounds great. and you can download it for free? how's the format that that comes in?

this book is so fucking good it almost depresses me

stop making me want to read it again! i do want to. maybe get a different edition, be a good excuse.

except it makes you a little sad that Gibbon hasn't written the history of the whole world

the format is fine - got it through ibooks. I've taken to reading on my iphone, which most people find weird, but I like because it's very easy to read on the subway or in bed, and I don't have to carry anything extra.

the writing is fantastic. some of the underlying ideology is kind of o_O but it can be read with a grain of salt. I'm also assuming it's not the most perfectly accurate history ever written and I'm reading it more for the narrative and overall enjoyment.

Like when he just effuses about how pleased all of the subjects were with their roman overlords I assume some exaggeration. Also there's a very anti-populist/elitist bent to some of it.

i've only gotten through a little more than 200 pages of it but it is really really great -- every time i pick it up i pretty much don't want to do anything else but read it. i wish i had a cork-lined room i could retreat to or something.

the Commodus section shows what a hash Ridley Scott made out of it in Gladiator; reality proved far more gruesome.

might have to break my spending freeze to buy this

have any of you guys read the whole thing? i just have that modern library edit, and it's still like 1200 pages.

i have this disgustingly gorgeous three-volume unabridged hardcover with giant two-page reproductions of the "original etchings" but nah i have not read anywhere close to the whole thing, partly cuz i can't take it anywhere. i think i said on some other thread that it can only be read on a plinth. but the kindle editions i got were pale, pale, pale imitations.

Iirc, I petered out in Byzantium around 900 or 1000 AD.

(it's from one of my annual holiday-season raids on the bookshelves in my parents' basement, lest anyone think i am not buying ramen w pennies)

(also i don't mean to be snotty about the kindle editions, being able to pull any version of gibbon out of the fucking AIR for NOTHING is literally the main thing our civilization has going for it)

Iirc, I petered out in Byzantium around 900 or 1000 AD.

― Aimless, Friday, October 19, 2012 1:46 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

so did byzantium iirc

I've Storified my (plentiful) tweets on what I found noteworthy in Gibbon: wisdom, humour, elegance, prejudice https://t.co/SODaFPUfZ1

— Josh Spero (@joshspero) April 27, 2017

this is the way gibbons intended it to be read

this is probably the best book ever

Yearly reminder to read Gibbon

it's actually not that great as an intro to Roman history - it starts after all the famous imperial stuff (Caesar Augustus, Claudius, Nero) is over (and assumes its audience knows its way around that iirc); but the title hides the fact that you do get Attila, Genghis Khan, Charlemagne, rise of Islam, Crusades etc etc.

― you don't exist in the database (woof), Monday, 5 September 2011 bookmarkflaglink

Is it worth reading Suetonius before starting on this btw?

neither of them are the most accurate things to read as history in 2020, both of them are the best things to read as entertainment, you certainly *could* read Suetonius first but then there's 600-odd years of Roman history before the Caesars so it's still not the whole empire. i think the Decline makes sense on its own, Gibbon sets out his terms at the beginning and in the title.

Got it, Ty.

Iggy Pop on Gibbon’s Decline and Fall is the most poignant thing I’ve read all week. https://t.co/jksAqwnpAQ pic.twitter.com/sG5aW5gN9h

— Mary Harrington (@moveincircles) January 3, 2021

I've seen that before but it is great

"I feel less tyrannized by the present day"

Iggy's frequenting the bookstore at which I worked in the early '90s was a delight.

Ha, was wondering when that was going to get mentioned.

did he ever come into the bookstore shirtless?

Barefoot.