generation limbo: 20-somethings today, debt, unemployment, the questionable value of a college education

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Buying children and selling the parts.

Aimless, Saturday, 3 September 2011 18:41 (eight years ago) link

I think about this stuff all the time not only b/c of my job but because I have kids, & because of my egalitarian leanings I'm somewhat ambiguous about it but I think my kids are gonna do super well in this brave new jobless world b/c they've lived in other countries, speak multiple languages fluently, are super smart especially at math, & have a sense of how "wide" the world is: so that if what's needed is to open a business in say Malaysia they're just gonna do it---this is that whole "new global elite" thing that I posted about sometimes, & it's pretty much gonna rule to be those people, so I dunno

lol i wonder if my parents sd the same thing and ive spent the last couple of years living below the poverty line

i do think that the academy cant really do much abt the relationship of labor to capital in a ~globalized economy~, nor really can how you raise yr kids (other than to be wise and realistic abt the world i guess), im genuinely ambivalent abt the ability of real wages to increase in the next ten years period idk

Lamp, Saturday, 3 September 2011 18:44 (eight years ago) link

universal health care would be a huge boon toward encouraging the kind of risk-taking I'm envisioning

Euler, Saturday, 3 September 2011 18:45 (eight years ago) link

Buying children and selling the parts.

Oh yeah that's the other thing that happens to street kids whose parents don't have the resources to secure their children's futures.

brb recalibrating my check engine light (Laurel), Saturday, 3 September 2011 18:45 (eight years ago) link

re: what kind of businesses/ventures: honest answer, i don't know...maybe more nanotech engineers taking root in developing countries, expats starting tex-mex restaurants in mumbai, more nonprofits starting schools for girls oprah style, dollar and a dream type shit

ima.tumblr.com (@imsothin) (m bison), Saturday, 3 September 2011 18:47 (eight years ago) link

my secret dream is to start a good burrito place in paris

iatee, Saturday, 3 September 2011 18:49 (eight years ago) link

nobody steal it

iatee, Saturday, 3 September 2011 18:49 (eight years ago) link

nobody fucks with my masala dosa with refritos and guacamole

ima.tumblr.com (@imsothin) (m bison), Saturday, 3 September 2011 18:51 (eight years ago) link

a non-ilxor just posted this on my wall

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/septemberoctober_2011/features/the_college_forprofits_should031640.php?page=all&print=true

iatee, Saturday, 3 September 2011 18:51 (eight years ago) link

the guy that article's about seems like an amazing dude

D-40, Saturday, 3 September 2011 19:00 (eight years ago) link

unrelated to the subject at hand but still, wkiw

D-40, Saturday, 3 September 2011 19:00 (eight years ago) link

if he had any free time

D-40, Saturday, 3 September 2011 19:00 (eight years ago) link

maybe this is heedless point scoring against the eisbars and morbs of the political threads but i dont see how you can read about how the obama admin finally held for-profit colleges accountable in that article & say that even if you were in a battleground state you wouldnt vote for him in the coming election -- / continue in other thread

D-40, Saturday, 3 September 2011 19:17 (eight years ago) link

iatee, thankin u for that link. Just posted it to my brother, who has two degrees in film production and is looking at getting a teaching cert instead.

brb recalibrating my check engine light (Laurel), Saturday, 3 September 2011 19:18 (eight years ago) link

The chief regulatory threat to the for-profits coalesced in the form of something called the “gainful employment rule.” The federal Higher Education Act states that, in order to be eligible for federal aid money, career-oriented schools must “prepare students for gainful employment in a recognized occupation.” And so the Education Department set out to define “gainful employment” as a ratio of student loan debt to income. If students weren’t earning enough in the workforce to service their debts after leaving a school, the idea went, then the school should not be eligible for aid. The very premise of the rule shook the foundations of the for-profits’ business model. Their stocks dropped to four-year lows.

D-40, Saturday, 3 September 2011 19:18 (eight years ago) link

ya, felt a lot better about obama's ed policy after reading that, altho i still think arne duncan sux

ima.tumblr.com (@imsothin) (m bison), Saturday, 3 September 2011 19:19 (eight years ago) link

Those who do graduate from Western Governors credit their mentors with being the single biggest factor in their success. Playing a role with no real analog in the wider world of higher education, WGU’s mentors operate from home offices and kitchen tables scattered across the country. (But unlike the armies of adjuncts and graduate students who do most of the teaching at both for-profit and traditional schools, mentors work full-time with benefits.)

iatee, Saturday, 3 September 2011 19:37 (eight years ago) link

not a big fan of arne duncan either

horseshoe, Saturday, 3 September 2011 20:13 (eight years ago) link

that's an awesome school! seems like more of a 'supplement' to the traditional 4 year college rather than a replacement, so far

dayo, Saturday, 3 September 2011 20:53 (eight years ago) link

a supplement when we're looking at 'the american college system', but on an individual level it would be a replacement for some people, and ultimately, some schools. harvard will exist in some form 20 years from now - the best 'signal' money can buy, a gdp-sized endowment, rich people are doin alright etc. etc.

but can public and private schools outside of the 'admissions tournament' 10% survive if a significant % of 18 y/os decide that WGU (etc.) is a better investment? esp w/ a political culture that seems intent on reducing both public subsidies to universities and research.

iatee, Saturday, 3 September 2011 21:17 (eight years ago) link

right - but as the article mentioned, the worst performing of WGU enrollments were precisely the 18 y/o fresh high school grad demographic. of course there could be many explanations for that - if it could draw on a larger pool of students than it does now, picking up some of those whom are now going to mediocre 4 year colleges, that might change things.

otoh the question with online learning is where does the motivation come from - it's easy to see where it does for the person profiled in the article and others in his age range, it's a little harder to conjure up for younger people. but hey, like we've been suggesting in this thread - maybe 2-3 years of independence after high school will be enough to motivate twenty somethings to go back to school and get a degree?

also the assessment/competency based system will lend itself better to certain subjects and not others - not sure how some of the subjects traditionally taught in the liberal arts would be, for example.

not trying to shit on the school! just thinking some things through. but some cynics would say that all they've done so far is create a cheaper, online (and more efficient) version of night school.

dayo, Saturday, 3 September 2011 21:32 (eight years ago) link

(also, don't mean to denigrate night school or adult education in any way! just trying to place it in context of this discussion.)

dayo, Saturday, 3 September 2011 21:41 (eight years ago) link

one big problem with college is that up until people turn like 21-22 they are all huge morons no matter what theyre doing

max, Saturday, 3 September 2011 22:07 (eight years ago) link

p much true

ima.tumblr.com (@imsothin) (m bison), Saturday, 3 September 2011 22:15 (eight years ago) link

hence my big "work on a farm" plan

max, Saturday, 3 September 2011 22:17 (eight years ago) link

also solves: obesity, bullying, having to see teenagers out on the street

max, Saturday, 3 September 2011 22:17 (eight years ago) link

aww but teenagers can be so amusingly earnest about their weird little lives sometimes!

Do not go gentle into that good frogbs (silby), Saturday, 3 September 2011 22:23 (eight years ago) link

you can be one of the supervising farmers

max, Saturday, 3 September 2011 22:24 (eight years ago) link

it'd have to be a web app farm

Do not go gentle into that good frogbs (silby), Saturday, 3 September 2011 22:25 (eight years ago) link

you could call it max's adventure orchestra (mao for short)

dayo, Saturday, 3 September 2011 22:25 (eight years ago) link

Uhh nothing from kindergarden on up teaches the on-the-fly skills you'd need to make yr way in the world in another country, without significant (family) assets behind you. My experience w education is exactly the opposite -- they rly don't want to have to deal with kids who have traits that wd suit them for quick thinking/acting or high levels of adventure/excitement/flexibility.

― brb recalibrating my check engine light (Laurel), Saturday, 3 September 2011 19:16 (4 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I mean if you want yr children to be world adventurers, take them out of school, move to Mozambique, and make them be friends with street kids who'll teach them how to pick pockets and lie convincingly.

― brb recalibrating my check engine light (Laurel), Saturday, 3 September 2011 19:17 (4 hours ago)

haw

very good

diouf est le papa du foot galsen merde lè haters (nakhchivan), Saturday, 3 September 2011 23:16 (eight years ago) link

i suppose it proves tom friedman isn't a sociopath because he has never had a great idea like that

diouf est le papa du foot galsen merde lè haters (nakhchivan), Saturday, 3 September 2011 23:19 (eight years ago) link

otoh the question with online learning is where does the motivation come from - it's easy to see where it does for the person profiled in the article and others in his age range, it's a little harder to conjure up for younger people. but hey, like we've been suggesting in this thread - maybe 2-3 years of independence after high school will be enough to motivate twenty somethings to go back to school and get a degree?

I mean the core motivation comes from the same place as their motivation to go to a normal 4 year school - better job prospects. kids also like the frills that come w/ traditional college - campus, sports, social life, whatever. but the frills are not why people are going into 6 figure debt.

iatee, Saturday, 3 September 2011 23:37 (eight years ago) link

and if colleges start competing on price, frills are the first thing to go

iatee, Saturday, 3 September 2011 23:40 (eight years ago) link

I'm not sure every freshman enters college with "better job prospects" as his number one motivator

dayo, Saturday, 3 September 2011 23:41 (eight years ago) link

I'm not sure every freshman enters college with "better job prospects" as his number one motivator

― dayo, Saturday, September 3, 2011 6:41 PM (29 seconds ago) Bookmark

i think its more 'my parents said this is what you should do'

D-40, Saturday, 3 September 2011 23:41 (eight years ago) link

'bone some hotties'

Lamp, Saturday, 3 September 2011 23:44 (eight years ago) link

"COLLLEEEEEGGEEEEEE" *kegstand*

dayo, Saturday, 3 September 2011 23:44 (eight years ago) link

I'm not sure every freshman enters college with "better job prospects" as his number one motivator

maybe not but if 'better job prospects' didn't exist, the whole concept falls apart pretty fast. whereas people do go to schools without football teams. and without cute girls. people go to commuter schools w/ no social life.

iatee, Saturday, 3 September 2011 23:46 (eight years ago) link

sure, but lots of people take out loans to go to those third and fourth tier 'idyllic' 'pastoral' colleges just to enjoy the 'college experience' that's as much a media and cultural phenomenon as it is an economic one

dayo, Saturday, 3 September 2011 23:49 (eight years ago) link

sometimes i think itd be nice to time travel back to like the early 60s and go to college cuz like the classes were smaller and probably more fun and expectations were lower and everyone dressed so nicely and you could take six months off ofter you finished to kick it in france on the cheap and no1 wld give a fuck cuz you wouldnt even have a resume, youd just work in the office of whomever yr dad played golf w/

then i realize that no1 wld be friends w/ me and i couldnt text and sleeping w/ cute dudes wld be a cumbersome trial and i realize how much better it is now 2day

Lamp, Saturday, 3 September 2011 23:51 (eight years ago) link

that's a good point, but I think the media/cultural phenomenon is gonna shift a bit when we have a national student debt crisis

iatee, Saturday, 3 September 2011 23:51 (eight years ago) link

everyone would be friends with you, you would be from 50 years in the future and would be the smartest human being alive

iatee, Saturday, 3 September 2011 23:51 (eight years ago) link

bring an iphone

iatee, Saturday, 3 September 2011 23:51 (eight years ago) link

i would be burned as a witch

Lamp, Saturday, 3 September 2011 23:53 (eight years ago) link

hopefully a national student debt crisis would lead to legislation that would allow student loans to be forgiven

dayo, Saturday, 3 September 2011 23:54 (eight years ago) link

also legislation leading to free iphones for everybody

dayo, Saturday, 3 September 2011 23:54 (eight years ago) link

40 iphones and a mule

dayo, Saturday, 3 September 2011 23:54 (eight years ago) link

when i do i want to be buried w/ 1000 ipads like an ancient chinese emperor

Lamp, Saturday, 3 September 2011 23:55 (eight years ago) link

just showing up in heaven giving out ipads 2 every1... hey jesus want to play angry birds?? well NOW YOU CAN

Lamp, Saturday, 3 September 2011 23:55 (eight years ago) link


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