generation limbo: 20-somethings today, debt, unemployment, the questionable value of a college education

gonna put that one on the Ivies, as usual

wanna get some class resentment going on this thread also

― Euler, Friday, September 2, 2011 1:22 PM

ultimately we're being fucked by people in dc and wall street, lots of them went to ivies, all of them are rich, it's not completely hors-sujet

all we needs are farmers and abstract artists

problem with america is not enough grant woods

"school is awful - full of false promises and useless work
memorization and paper achievements
any kind of real sense of desires to learn or create are put to the side"

i really view this as a positive when applied to the evil ambitions of... a lot of people frankly. what other civilizing institutions do we have other than compulsory education? I agree with Thiel in the sense that a lot of motivated people would be personally, selfishly better off not pursuing advanced degrees and doing startups straight from high school, but I disagree that it's a net positive for society.

it seems weird that so mnay people spend so much money on rent/mortgage - seems like just money going to rich banker types instead of food, healthfcare etc

food and health care $ is also mostly going to evil rich people

Nunez - that was just my individual experience - I did however enjoy doodling in the margins of notebooks and dyadreamin

we all dreamed of dyao in school

really Mr Spock, cant we have a spciaety where people dont have to pay fuckin mortgages!

otm xp

btw just so you guys know -- the hammer is coming down on higher ed w/r/t assessment and accountability for their claims. the HLC has issued a whole new system of criteria for accreditation that is designed to force institutions to account for how their time and money is being spent.

fyi

that's mostly w/r/t for-profit schools, which isn't what this thread is really about (tho it is a pretty important subject)

no it's not
it's all schools that want to be accredited

"no it's not
it's all schools that want to be accredited"

are we to accept this wholly as a truth!

the new accreditation process will apply to all schools that wish to be accredited by the HLC (mine is not for profit)

I'll belive it when I see it - mind the menace of such schools!

fwiw philosophy majors rank in the top three nationally on the LSAT, GMAT and GRE pretty much yearly; our only competition is physics & math iirc

lool

i'm interested in your 'just go to a state school argument' because how much does that then start closing doors to possible future careers? or at least certain career paths? i mean the % of ppl who are ever going to sit on the supreme court or be an svp of an investment bank or write for the simpsons or w/e is negligible already but the idea that anyone who cant afford/doesnt want to risk huge debt to pay for a private school shldn't even dream of it is p dispiriting

i mean 'private colleges are really expensive so don't go to them' is reasonable advice except: public schools are getting more expensive, only have so many spaces and is at odds w/ the idea that at least certain private schools are the 'only way' to make it certain professions. also at my large public university the % of tenured professors who did not attend an elite private college is hanging right around 15% w/ most of the coming from oxbridge/my own school. so, yknow...

you don't really have a choice about believing it -- the new accreditation process was released at the 2011 HLC conference, so i can confirm that it's real

the lengths to which some schools will go to conceal their poor job placement numbers/career services? that i can't really say. but reporting it is a part of institutional assessment, and everyone has to do it.

i still dont understand this 'private schools are too expensive' thing -- it was much MORE affordable for me to go to a private liberal arts school than a public one

"you don't really have a choice about believing it -- the new accreditation process was released at the 2011 HLC conference, so i can confirm that it's real"

these things are always a red herring

there's also a gap growing w/r/t private schools in that the best schools can all pretty much give full-rides to the poor/middle class kids they admit. I think going to a no-name local private school is prob the worst deal you can get right now tho. xp

well that's if you go to a good private liberal arts school with a generous financial need policy xp to deej

a lot of third, fourth tier 'private liberal arts' colleges out there that will provide you w/ the same experience but for which you will probably have to finance your entire experience with loan money if you can't pay it upfront

yeah deej is point in case that this can really depend on someone's situation, which makes it even harder to talk about. but *overall* private schools are considerably more expensive.

haha basically what iatee said

"Creating the Climate for Continuous Learning is a distinct Strategy Forum intended specifically for institutions already experienced with AQIP. This Strategy Forum requires an institution to have submitted a Systems Portfolio to AQIP, undergone a Systems Appraisal, and received and analyzed its Systems Appraisal Feedback Report. Registration is open."

listen to this - lifted RIGHT OFF THEIR SITE

did you c/p that randomly or what

haha

:(

Yeah I had a friend in HS who went to Duke of all places because with financial aid it was cheaper than UVA. The financial aid budget is the biggest fiscal concern at my college; our operating budget was like 85% tuition and fees every year (compared to places that have much larger endowments and draw on them for operating budget every year). Basically the full-pay students fund financial aid every year for the ones getting an average like 50% discount on the sticker price.

"Principles of Good Practice in Adult Degree Completion Programs
In order to facilitate the evaluation of adult degree completion programs in member institutions, the Board of Trustees has adopted a set of kick-ass principles developed by a special task force, as a framework for program implementation. These principles also are used by team members in evaluating patterns of evidence during accreditation reviews."

haha

it's like a black hole of jargon over there

is this from univ. of utility data?

No College Student Left Behind is just around the corner, once you pass the nationally applied gen ed integrated learning objectives that seem imminent :-/

(i sincerely hope i'm wrong about that btw)

"These best practices have been developed by the regional accrediting commissions in response to the emergence of technologically mediated instruction offered at a distance as an important component of higher education. CAn I get a what what!? Expressing in detail what currently constitutes best practice in distance education, specifically electronically offered degree and certificate programs, shit is whack, they seek to address concerns that regional accreditation standards are not relevant to the new distributed learning environments, especially when those environments are experienced by offcampus students."

No College Student Left Behind is just around the corner, once you pass the nationally applied gen ed integrated learning objectives that seem imminent :-/

I think a better situation would be a national credentialing system - if you graduate w/ an BA (or if you don't) you should have to take and pass a competitive national test for your field. some sort of post-college (or college alternative) skills and intelligence measure. having an alternate way to prove yourself would eventually take some pressure of people going to college just for the sake of going to college.

tho fwiw self-taught lawyers still can't practice if the pass the bar etc.

ah yes, but who will design that test
that is the terrifying question (for me, at least)

its nicer to have to pass a test than pass a workload

you would say that

hope self-taught doctors are barred too

take some pressure off* xp

"The Commission invites participation in of one seven Regional Forums on Commission Initiatives. Think you can bring it? These forums provide the opportunity to hear about proposed changes in the Criteria for Accreditation and the development and implementation of the new Open Pathway model for continued accreditation, and to provide comments, ask questions, and raise issues.Also booty blast session and 1$ drafts"

if a self-taught doctor can pass the same test as one who had to spend 200k to learn that stuff, not sure what the problem would be. obv doctors require hospital and lab experience and the institutions for this alternative don't exist. but they could.

there's also a gap growing w/r/t private schools in that the best schools can all pretty much give full-rides to the poor/middle class kids they admit. I think going to a no-name local private school is prob the worst deal you can get right now tho. xp

― iatee, Friday, September 2, 2011 11:49 AM (17 minutes ago)

yeah, this wasn't quite the case 20 years ago, but the disparity was pretty large, in that my first choice college, while it may have given me a pre-eminent proto-hipster education, was a 2nd/3rd tier liberal arts college that waitlisted me for financial aid, and my second choice college gave me 1/2 a free ride, and that's how i ended up at an ivy.

I think a better situation would be a national credentialing system - if you graduate w/ an BA (or if you don't) you should have to take and pass a competitive national test for your field. some sort of post-college (or college alternative) skills and intelligence measure. this isn't even well-implemented for high schools yet, i think colleges doing something like this is years/decades off. not to mention that a lot of fields can't be measured using a 'competitive national test' b/c education doesn't work like that.

having an alternate way to prove yourself would eventually take some pressure of people going to college just for the sake of going to college. - yes, absolutely.

sarahel was your first choice sarahelawrence

(sorry I actually don't want to know the answer to that)

xp - it was Reed College in Portlandia