no boys allowed in the room!!!!

xp emil.y otm

Illuminated with colored inks and gold leaf around the capital letters. Not as in "lit up". Thank goodness for small favors?

KEEP IT COMING. I can almost feel your combined loathing from here, and it's doing me good.

It's super duper messed up to the max to tell all women to act the same way, esp. if that way is "like good girls."

what the fucking fuck with that poem

oh ugh! I think my mom once gave me a birthday card with that poem on it, or some updated one that was a bit less insulting, but still "for girls," mainly because she really liked the Kipling original. I think we had a brief argument about it, and i think we agreed that a) this "for girls" version was mediocre poetry and b) that i really dislike mass-produced holiday cards in general

"what the fucking fuck"
http://noirbettie.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/7c96e6f1db054ef381b8ce9eebcdeadb.jpg

also, hi everyone, i am on my period atm

thank god my parents (or my mom, at least) were more the "Free to Be You and Me" types

<3 Amelia Lolhart

I should point out, in case you don't know me, that my dad also put paintbrushes and power sanders and a full set of socket wrenches in our hands when we were like 10 years old, and he built me a dune buggy as a first car, and bursted his buttons with pride the first time I biked 100 miles in a day, and stuff. My personal drama is more about being good at all THAT stuff AND everything else, too. In fact, at everything. Just in case the world is having an off day and needs you to save it.

If you don't, it will be your fault.

RIP if only she had tried harder to be perfect.

RIP if only she had tried harder to be perfect.

shit, yeah ... :(

ofmg that poem

Laurel you must print a copy and that poem and ritually burn it while chanting "I don't owe it to anybody to be nice or attractive" or something similarly appropriate.

Styled by 13 year old me, cherished and lovingly photographed by 36 year old me

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6195/6071235301_9004b3463b.jpg

those gold sleeve things! Was there a particular barbie outfit that those came with? Thinking about them decades after the fact, they are really a pretty odd garment.

I see someone's been at the hemming lace.

yes! they came with a barbie i had that was all dressed in gold and i am pretty sure she is the one who became this barbie. the top is an orange lace ribbon i found in my grandma's sewing box, and her pants were, apparently, stockings in a previous life? i don't really remember life before this barbie very well, tbh.

she didn't wear shoes. i never made a ken for her or even any friends, but she has sat on my dresser in all of my rooms/apartments over the years. i found her in my junk drawer and regret keeping her in there for so long.

Hem lace or tape whatever that shit is called, I just made that up. Love her!

P sure the gold things were meant to be...gloves, but Barbie hands looked stupid in gloves?? Or else they were just opera "mitts", I dunno. I feel like a number of ballet recital costumes from that era may have had something similar in which the point over the hand was held down by a loop of elastic around the middle finger?

also, i just wanna say, that i wish i knew more of you ilx ladies irl

likewise

i think barbie didn't look good in gloves because she didn't have any FINGERS

Or toes! Or ribs! Or anything so troublesome as genitalia!

I would also love to know more of the ladies irl. For someone addicted to a message board I am preeeety hopeless at interaction on message boards.

Laurel, lest you think you are a doormat, I have not forgotten your 'There is no Laurel buffet' comment on the breakup thread. I did stay friends with my ex, but that comment *really strongly* influenced how I did it.

i have a song that is somewhat relevant to the discussion and also makes me lol a little:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vajWi4a6ehk

Deffo am hearing in my personal life that a lot of women I know have been trying to rescue guys who just aren't that into taking responsibility for their shit and end up freeloading, financially or emotionally, and I wish I knew what was fucked with all of us for putting assholes ahead of our own well-being and/or having no survival instinct and/or never getting mad for the right reasons.

It's like, this is the dominant model for relationships in our all pervasive media. Movies, TV shows, commercials for cleaning products - the dynamic is always an emotionally stunted, idiot manchild haplessly flailing around life and relationships while the patient (and disproportionately attractive) woman in his life serves as an emotional, financial, and domestic prop. Legit question - what was the last movie or TV show that depicted a hetero couple who are at least attempting some kind of equality in their relationship and where the woman was not merely there for succor or service, or even worse, was entirely defined by her relationships with the men around her? I can't think of anything (but it is early and before coffee).

So but it's unfair to say that we're so dumb as to ape whatever we see in the media, but then where else do we look for healthy male/female hetero relationship models? Our parents? Probably not - they are still operating largely under the gross gender dynamics of the 60s and 70s, or they are divorced. It feels like as women in relationships with men, we've got to make our own way if we want to avoid these pitfalls and god damn is that hard. Staying out of that pattern takes work! Like, constant work! And it's tiring!

And for someone not in a committed relationship with a loving partner who is on board with striving towards actual equality, it's nothing to internalize nonstop messages about how failure to provide emotional support and domestic service and basically be the woman in that horrible, horrible poem makes us unlovable harpies who will die alone and afraid and nobody wants that.

In other ladyrant news, I need a god damn suit by Friday morning and Macy's has two (TWO) plus size suits - one is made out of plastic (or the worse all polyester suit fabric ever and I am included the 70s in all its doubleknit glory) and one is a 78-year-old mother of the remarrying bride/lady's church auxilliary suit. Nordstrom has TWO plus size suits - one that is the same plastic one at Macy's except gray and one that is some hideous fucking are-you-kidding-me-who-really-wears-this-shit soft suiting nonsense with an abstract brush stroke pattern jacket. WHAT THE FUCK. I guess major retailers don't believe fat women get job interviews? We're too busy sitting home eating ho hos and watching Biggest Loser reruns and crying into our fat?

I am double frustrated because I tried to address my suitlessness about a year ago when I had no pressing need by buying a nice all-season weight wool blazer from Pendleton (which matches an all-season weight wool pencil skirt (well, two in black, one in gray (when you find a piece of professional clothing that fits, you've got to stock up on that shit))) but it was boxy and ill fitting and I took it to a tailor who managed to make it fit even worse and then I got disheartened and gave up.

kinda makes you wonder why we have to wear suits.

those shopping experiences sound traumatizing and like they are making the unnatural and generally unpleasant process of interviewing for a job like quadruple worse

I don't know where people shop in Chicago, but that is horrendous and shameful. Wish I had better advice to offer for other shopping options! Let me think it over a second.

What if you stayed with the Pendleton skirt and just looked for a black or windowpane (or other subtly patterned) jacket? Lots of places sell jackets as separates that might not sell suits.

Against my better judgment, bc I did not want to give them any of my dollars, I bought a pretty blue blouse at Nordstrom. Worse case scenario, I'll wear the skirt, blouse, pumps and hope the fact that it's going to be in the 90s makes this seem acceptable. Also going to Stupid Terrible Lane Bryant after work bc sometimes they have passable career wear.

You have a grey skirt and a black skirt, right? So if you find a black jacket, wear the grey skirt. If you find a checked or patterned jacket, wear the black skirt. All you need is a blouse for under that and you're good, I think? But I don't know about law jobs, and I don't know about law jobs in Chicago.

Heat is probably an excellent excuse for no jacket all--at the very least it's an excuse for not wearing stockings of any kind, which is A++ with me.

Fat people shop at Macy's, Nordstrom, Lane Bryant and there is also an Avenue and a… shit I can't remember the name of it but it's an Avenue-level chain and Jill Scott shilled a weird bra for them a few years ago. No suits at those last two places. There's a great plus size boutique in Bucktown but no suits there either.

Everything else is on line.

Department stores are really the only ticket which is what makes their stock decisions so frustrating.

xp job is a laughable long shot so I'm not that stressed about it, tbh.

I know it's boring but I'll say it again: I only ever find "career" clothes at stupid boring department stores in Muskegon, MI, because honestly I don't want a black skirt to be fashion-forward, I want it to be a black skirt. Do you have time to drive out to the suburbs somewhere? I'll bet they carry larger sizes and a better range of plus-sized clothes at suburban stores than at city ones.

Totally sucks about the Pendleton jkt because that's kind of as nice as it gets, ime. I have a couple of vintage P-ton skirts that I will never give even up if I never fit into them again. Maybe it would be worthwhile to take it to a...dressmaker? I don't know, but if it could be rescued, there's your win for next time.

Nordstrom has TWO plus size suits - one that is the same plastic one at Macy's except gray and one that is some hideous fucking are-you-kidding-me-who-really-wears-this-shit soft suiting nonsense with an abstract brush stroke pattern jacket.

argh are you fucking kidding me with this shit, Nordstrom? somehow it's what i expect from macy's but i want Nordstrom to be reasonable. Jenny, now is as good a time as any to tell you that my latest unemployment fantasy is to open up a boutique that sells straight and plus-size clothing. in this fantasy, i hire you as a consultant and you quit your job that you hate.

i assume you've already exhausted your options but does Talbot's carry suits?

also your entire rant about movies is otm

Yeah I'm still processing the woman-as-security-blanket-and-Zimmer-frame rant but thanks for it.

Talbots does but the Mag Mile Talbots closed, which is tragic bc I love Talbots for stuffy work clothes. Going to the 'burbs is a good idea but I don't think it's going to happen. Maybe for next time.

I feel like I'm shooting down all the ideas and I don't mean to do that! They are good ideas and I am grateful!

Laurel, I was going to buy a black sheath dress (knit so not ideal but it could pass) with an exposed zipper but it was $480.

horseshoe, I accept you business proposal.

By the way, to anyone else who's reading: La Lechera and I have been talking about words like "yammer" and "blither" and how de-valuing they are to women's dialogue and I'm feeling an especial motivation to support whatever style of dialogue women engage in, so anyone who was on the fence about posting itt, bring it.

xp FOUR HUNDRED AND...fucking A. You need a Filene's Basement.

We have a Filene's but it totally sucks imo. I went there once and it was just full of, like, trash. Shitty products. I like Marshall's, but I also hate hate hate buying sensible clothes.

I second Laurel's post encouragement. Yammer on, sisters. Yammer on.

Filene's on State St. closed. I have limited patience for Marshalls, TJMax, etc. Finding clothes that I like and that fit is hard enough without having to dig through disorganized piles of crap first.

Yeah I told Laurel about this guy I was friends with who interrupted me to tell me that I was "yammering" and I was just like wait, I was just "talking" (we were on the phone) and then I thought "Yknow, this guy is a total dick" and now, a million years later, I think he may have been negging. Mission unaccomplished, pal. We are not friends anymore nor did we remain friends long after this incident.

I referred to this claim that I was yammering (rather than carrying on enthusiastically as I tend to do) as the yammer hammer. Don't get whacked by it, folks.

I mean, it would be ok if it had been done in good fun, and really -- I can be kind of annoying, I know that -- I can take a joke. But he interrupted me and said "If you would stop ~yammering~ for one second" and I just thought to myself that this is not how I expect a friend to treat me.

Chicago sounds hard. Filene's here isn't my FAVORITE store, but I got my birthday dress there and another fancy dress that I haven't even worn yet because it's so fancy, and they were both AWESOME deals. All my stand-by stores are getting a terrible rap there!

"If you would stop ~yammering~ for one second"

maybe he should stop talking like he's from the 1950s for one second !!!!!!!!!

Possibly relevant, with the paragraph starting with "Actually at this point" a nice antidote to The Fucking Poem.

The stop yammering guy is a horrible person and I wish him ill.

I feel like a link is missing from that poast and that makes me impatient because I know it's going go to be something good and I want to read it.

Ha yes - http://tigerbeatdown.com/2011/08/29/chronicles-of-mansplaining-professor-feminism-and-the-deleted-comments-of-doom/

It's loooong and in the context of the response to a recent (hilarious and OTM (note: I liked the two books I read just fine)) post she made about Game of Thrones, et al but it's good.

what was the last movie or TV show that depicted a hetero couple who are at least attempting some kind of equality in their relationship and where the woman was not merely there for succor or service, or even worse, was entirely defined by her relationships with the men around her?

friday night lights, maybe, which got a lot of attn for being a tv show that portrayed a marriage realistically. (it's an entertaining show, despite football!) she calls him on his shit, refuses to move with him when he accepts a job in another town without consulting her, stands up to him regularly. and he generally does get a clue about her pov eventually.

the fact that the show got so much attn for portraying a marriage where the wife struggles to be heard and respected equally--well, that supports jenny's rant. because that's pretty much unheard of.

thx for rant. and for that horrifying, thought-provoking poem, laurel.

and thx for post encouragement. xp yay things to read.

<3 u, boo!