I hate Lance Armstrong.

It is not enough for me to succeed, others must fail. Discuss

They are all on drugs.

Get one more understanding of competitive sports.

perpetual winners are boring. i like athletes who know how to lose with style, and who occasionally win, also with great style.

it's nice to read about people who overcome illnesses and actually are inspiring--but this guy is just an arrogant fuck, one more person who pretends to be inspirational just to make a spectacle of himself and try to gain admirers.

Juliaaa, why don't you tell us the story about how you or a loved went about facing metastatic cancer? I hope you have not had to do so, but if you have, then you know how impossible it can feel, and how important it is to feel hope, and have courage to just keep going.

Millions of people who have cancer, who have beaten cancer, or have friends and loved ones who have suffered with the disease ARE ACTUALLY INSPIRED by Lance Armstrong's experience. And Armstrong ACTUALLY HAD REAL LIVE CANCER THAT HAD METASTASIZED TO HIS BRAIN AND LUNGS. So when you say that Armstrong "pretends to be inspirational," are you saying that he faked cancer? That you, "juliaaa, Arbiter of Righteousness," are NOT inspired is YOUR personal reaction, and many share it. You may chalk Armstrong's celebrity (and in some corners, veneration) up to a PR machine, but it really is beyond that. His recovery from cancer and his victories in TdF are very real, and are proof of a very, very exceptional person.

And a guy that in so many ways is a smug, petty, egotistical jerk.

I also possess a sensitive BS detector, and it makes me allergic to the type of fanboy Lance-worship so nauseatingly present in the July media. But, step back from your emotional reaction to the machine and the hype to consider what Armstrong actually delivers, beyond his obvious, near extra-terrestrial physiology: extreme competence, extreme determination, extreme focus, and extreme courage and perseverance.

If you wish to discuss dopage, it's certainly a huge issue for cycling and an element of Armstrong's story. I don't know if he's doping now or not, but I do know that even if he is, he is not alone by any means. An exercise phsiology PhD friend of mine (and racing teammate) wonders if Armstrong has experimented with gene-doping. This is not to excuse doping by any means, but I will tell you this, his level of success at the TdF, even with doping, is extra-fucking-ordinary. The type of planning, consistency, focus and even good fortune, required to win six Tours is huge. The best physiology and/or the best dope in the world will not accomplish it, and you may ask Jan Ullrich about it. I do not allege Ullrich has doped here, but he is obviously an amazing specimen. Are Ullrich's "failures" because he is too spoiled? Dunno, but he has pretty much been coddled in the wake of his success in the 96 TdF, and his victory in 97. He has his own management team that is semi-detached from his actual team (and the arrangement is acrimonious). Yet, I think Ullrich's problem is that he is a normal man, a good man, in all-time great cycling body. And he may be a better person than Armstrong, with a far better "EQ," but that doesn't win the TdF six times consecutively in mostly dominating fashion.

Confession time: I am kind of a bitter hater by personality type. I don't care for people like Armstrong--vindictive and self-obsessed. As I contemplate Armstrong's move into the political sphere, I feel the fear. But I will say that Armstrong is the Texan that George W. Bush wishes he were. They share the chip on the shoulder, they both demand total loyalty, and like to punish their enemies, and take everything reaaaal personal. But there is a big difference. Armstrong knows adversity, he micro-manages everything, making the decisions himself, and he is fucking awesome at it.

I won't apologize for the bastard, and I won't give him a free pass, but I am impressed by what I see.

xpost

xp i'll respond to that in a minute

I hope he wins.

King Asshole.

i never claimed to be an arbiter of righteousness, and resent the tone of your post, hunter. yeah, damn straight i'm not much inspired by lance. i may not have cancer but i can certainly relate far too well to what you said here for my own health-related reasons:

then you know how impossible it can feel, and how important it is to feel hope, and have courage to just keep going.

to me (and obv this is ONLY MY OPINION) lance talks about his cancer in his books as if it were not really that big of a deal. to me, he comes across as oh-i'm-such-a-hero, rather than truly portraying the suffering and terrifying feelings of helplessness that can come with a serious illness. he makes it look easy, and that seems to trivialize what a lot of people go through in facing similar challenges. maybe i'm just a bitter, jaded bitch, but that's my opinion.

in terms of doping, they've tested him like mad, and found nothing. maybe he just has a physiology that disposes him to a level of athleticism that most can't achieve, as well as training like mad to maximize what he can do athletically.

with a clear intent to humiliate others in order to make themselves look good

Armstrong lives to enforce his dominance against those he takes as his enemies. He does not need to do it to look good. His treatment of Simeoni only made him look like a villain, I was appalled. His assertion that he let Pantani win atop the Ventoux was also not classy (and to the proud Pantani, a grave offense), but I don't think it was beyond-the-pale. I also think it was true, though, and Lance wanted his generosity recognized in the way that 12 year old boys do.

Further, I regret wasting anyone's emotional energy on something so inconsequential as sports or bike racing.

Pantani was a shameless cheat, even if he had a funny face.

I quite like Armstrong myself, though he's certainly been lucky over the years as his rivals have fallen at convenient times (Ullrich, Beloki). He can't be blamed for beating whoever is out there, even if it means he'll enter cycling lore as a Larry Holmes rather than an Ali. As for his politics, he doesn't come across as a Bush fan to me, though I understand the comparison. Dubya is just the sort of prick he's been kicking against all these years.

And of course there's an obvious fault in the logic here; that is whoever was the first "great" to get 5 wins must not have been a "decent guy," because he didn't stop where others had stopped. Come now, this definitely makes no sense.

maaaaasive xpost

???

Merckx was more versatile, but apples and oranges.

I'd cut his balls off and tell mama I beat cancer. Corny face.

There is. There are UCI rankings (International Cycling Union)(er, Union Cycliste Internationale) based on how well riders do in major races. The thing is, most casual fans don't know this because they don't hear about any races other than the TdF. It matters to the riders and to serious cycling fans, though.

I think Lance is great, and have a harder time understanding the hate, for me, the reason I can't stand, say Manyoo is that mainly it's the fans that bleat on that get on my nerves (ILX is a pretty manyoo-bore free zone compared to much of the internet - the fans here are mainly reasoned and not text talking idiots) with Lance you don't get that (although maybe in the states with the media on Lance-alert creates that feeling) you just see a cold-hearted cycling assasin, but one with a bit of a character, not a faceless machine such as big Mig.

This is one of the most rambly posts I've ever made, I'm really tired, sorry.

I've got no problem with Lance Armstrong. To suggest he should have quit after his fifth win is ridiculous. At least he is an attacking rider. Yesterday he destroyed everyone in the mountains. When Indurain used to win every year that WAS boring as he'd just play it safe in the mountains and grind everyone down in the time trials. Merckx (sp?) was a better all-rounder, but Armstrong knows what he's good at and concentrates on that - what's the problem? Also, talking about Merckx and doping is missing the point a bit as it's pretty much accepted that at least 95% of professional riders were (are?) on drugs.

WE SHALL UTILIZE THIS ARMSTRONG BY REVERSE ENGINEERING AND CREATING OUR OWN. GENTLEMAN, WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY.

theres pre- and post- cancer eras to take into account here. he was certainly a great road racer, a real one day dude, prior to cancer. i saw him win the texas state championships for fun when the rest of his team was at corestates (which he couldn't do 'cause he was still amateur) in like '91 i think. he was already a regional legend in TX then. triathlete. whatever happened to chann macrae actually?

104 Chann McRae (TARGETRAINING) 10.20

I claim ultimate cycling results trainspotting idiocy.

Lance Armstrong is a God

The only real champion the world has seen was Marco Pantani "the pirate"...hadn't he been persecuted by italian justice Armstrong would have won no Tours! Just remember Courchevel 2000 at the Tour...

FUCK LANCE!!!!

OH MY GOD he's coming back...IN ADELAIDE??

And apparently (according to Mike Rann), it's the MOST IMPORTANT THING EVER!

I don't like him for the simple reason that I used to supertext-caption the news, and every year the Tour de France and Tour Down Under were a nightmare of demented names and esoteric terms poured out by deranged commentators at nightmare speeds. (Though to be fair, I could at least spell 'Lance Armstrong' correctly, so he should have been one of those I hated least)

the brett favre of cycling

or roger clemens

And apparently (according to Mike Rann), it's the MOST IMPORTANT THING EVER!

Oh, don't tell me you're writing into The Advertiser now. Those people are the reason why I left Adelaide.

I don't think many people realise that Lance is coming back for Astana, so he'll be racing in the glorious colours of KAZAKHSTAN!!

Oh, don't tell me you're writing into The Advertiser now. Those people are the reason why I left Adelaide.

Er, what?

cant believe i ever wasted time opining about this and so annoyingly

This is a very rare case of accomplishment completely supplanting douchiness.

another ex-teammate just came out of the woodwork and fired some accusations in lance's direction.

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=dw-wetzel_lance_armstrong_faces_new_allegations_051911

as far as this guy managing his public reputation, he fucked up by not coming clean years ago when he still had tons of positive cache -- his redemption tour would've come full circle by now, but at this point I think he's generally seen as a massive fraud

I don't think so... he cured cancer and won 7 tours with one ball, he still is a hero in the eye of the typical american sports fan (ie, has no clue about cycling).

My favorite MSM defense piece of Lance came early this year when referring to Armstrong as retired... yet Lance was racing a stage race in Australia at the time.

Let me try to find it, it was pretty funny.

i think that the "defiant" reaction to accusations like this is actually kind of revealing. i would think people who were being accused of something absolutely untrue over and over again by some of their closest compatriots would actually react with more palpable hurt and shock rather than some kind of "haters gonna hate" defiance.

Sports Illustrated 1/18/11:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31751_162-20028841-10391697.html

by Joshua Norman

Doping allegations have followed Lance Armstrong into retirement. (Credit: AP Photo/Mark Lennihan)

Lance Armstrong has tested negative for performance enhancing drugs on countless occasions. He counts among his friends and supporters former presidents and some of the world's biggest celebrities. He is also among the most prominent spokespeople for eradicating cancer and helping those suffering with it.

Regardless, journalists and federal prosecutors just won't let the now-retired legendary cyclist be.

A federal investigator experienced at probing performance enhancing drug use in U.S. sports who already nabbed track star Marion Jones and baseball great Barry Bonds has barely concealed his continued investigation into Armstrong's alleged use of PEDs.

Now, Sports Illustrated magazine has sent two of its investigative journalists on the trail to uncover evidence of Armstrong's alleged use of PEDs. They will report the full findings in the magazine on newsstands on Wednesday, but in the meantime, they have leaked evidence that they believe may link Armstrong to "the saddest deception in sports history."

None of SI's leaked evidence is particularly strong, however.

Included in their key findings are:

- Armstrong had "access" to a drug that boosts the blood's oxygen-carrying capacity in the 1990s called "HemAssist." He has since denied every taking it and never publicly tested positive for it.

- "Lance had a bag of drugs and s---," said former teammate and admitted doper Floyd Landis, when talking about being stopped by customs in St. Moritz in 2003. Agents allegedly found syringes and drugs with labels written in Spanish. Landis claims Armstrong then asked a member of his traveling crew to convince customs "agents that the drugs were vitamins and that the syringes were for vitamin injections." Armstrong has since denied this happened.

- Armstrong's testosterone-epitestosterone ratio was reported to be higher than normal on three occasions between 1993 and 1996, although the evidence for this is spurious. The lab that reported the higher levels has long since dismissed the tests, and all attempts at unearthing them have fallen flat.

- Another former teammate who has admitted taking PEDs said Armstrong was "the instigator" in 1995 when it came to his cycling team using the banned blood booster EPO. Again, Armstrong denies the accusation and has not tested positive for EPO during his career.

Meanwhile while this article was published he was in the middle of a 7 day Tour Down Under stage race (1/16-1/23/11), earning to a 67th place finish in the biggest race south of the equator:
http://www.tourdownunder.com.au/race/results-2011

the latest accuser from the wayback machine- were we still old ilx in 03?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2003/tour03/stage15/20.jpg

Professional cycling is NAGL

it could be worse. i could be floyd landis