rolling "Is This Racist?" thread

there is that painful centuries-long tradition of depicting white men with goatees i guess

hmm

they BAG'ed Michael Vick

maybe that's what that line in "Bedrock" was talking about?

brian austin green mike vick!

so exactly where are you drawing the line here.

It's behind you.

frogbs thinks I'm the worst, feel like I should get a badge to wear with pride or something

i...need to stop doing this, but frogbs are you saying that brian austin green mike vick is offensive to white people somehow?

actually I kinda think it may be more offensive to black people

okay, then you didn't need to frame it in opposition to blackface

racial politics are a continuum, there's no "one size fits all" policy. historical power dynamics are involved.

why am I bothering...

well, yeah, I'm just wondering if a national publication bringing up this sort of thing at all is just in bad taste even if the image itself isn't really going to offend anyone. they've already taken it off their website and the author of the article is going nuts on twitter trying to distance himself from it.

I would sb espn the magazine too if I could fwiw

so your defense is basically "just bringing you a lil bit of that 4chan experience, right here on ilx! *winks at the camera*"

or like, literally any other message board but this one

so exactly where are you drawing the line here. is it offensive to photoshop someone as Chinese, for instance? or just any race but white?

do you really not get it or do you just like it when people call you stupid? do you not recognize that in every context we'll likely be discussing, white people stand in a position of distinct advantage with respect to power dynamics? do you not see how that renders all your "how come it's offensive this way but not that way?" framings might seem remarkably stupid in light of said dynamics? dude seriously. just go fucking study this stuff someplace. it isn't hard.

okay, so basically, "its okay to clown people if they have the power advantage over you"

i mean, you do understand that that really wasn't my point at all, and that i'm not arguing that whiteface is offensive to white people for whatever reason. and of course, you can and have taken liberties yourself to try and make me look dumb, but I'm not saying "how does this relate to white people" there at all, I mean I know it sorta ruins your diatribe there but seriously, even you can think of some scenario in which this dynamic doesn't really exist, can't you? i'm saying the idea of photoshopping any race into any other race is something that probably shouldn't be done on a national stage since it really does call these issues to mind and is going to be looked upon poorly even if the general concept of picturing Vick as a white guy isn't going to ruffle any feathers.

Guys, what if frogbs was black.

Thnk about it.

just to clarify, if they had photoshop blackfaced Tom Brady I'm sure a lot of people would have a problem with it

― frogbs, Thursday, August 25, 2011 4:39 PM (50 minutes ago) Bookmark

so exactly where are you drawing the line here. is it offensive to photoshop someone as Chinese, for instance? or just any race but white?

― frogbs, Thursday, August 25, 2011 5:10 PM (20 minutes ago) Bookmark

do you see how if you post the above, your rhetoric sounds a lot like trolling "how come it's only okay to call out racism against black people" stuff, right? add that to your posting history. honestly, your language when you post about race itt is vague and sounds like you're uncomfortable and confused: "certain races" "call these issues to mind" and if you're not trolling, i think aero is right and you should maybe just learn some more.

even you can think of some scenario in which this dynamic doesn't really exist, can't you?

what dynamic are you referring to here?

What if frogbs was black... in my vagina?

Do you really want me to go into detail there? If we asked, what if Ichiro was from the Dominican Republic, and then photoshopped him as such, what would the response be? It sounds like racist trolling because that's what you've conditioned yourself to think.

smdh at frogbs getting into the exact same tizzy every single week and then going all "what? what did I do?"

it sounds like racist trolling because it's rhetoric one million racist trolls have employed before

It sounds like racist trolling because that's what you've conditioned yourself to think.

― frogbs, Thursday, August 25, 2011 5:40 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

i'm glad that we've entered the full OPEN YOUR EYES, SHEEPLE portion of the thread

even you can think of some scenario in which this dynamic doesn't really exist, can't you?

I can also imagine a world in which giraffes can sing. however, said world doesn't really inform the choices I make in how I express myself, because that world is fantasy-land.

It isn't just this thread he's been pulling this stuff in either, though. He's managed to hang around surprisingly long.

aero, you only think that giraffes can't sing because that's what you've conditioned yourself to think

xxxp - i mean really, does anyone have any arguments other than "you've posted questionable stuff before, therefore we must assume the worst of everything you've posted"?

YOU DON'T HAVE AN ARGUMENT

smdh at frogbs getting into the exact same tizzy every single week and then going all "what? what did I do?"

send your thanks to the low-content brigade

you never have an argument just these pseudoprovocative observations

What if frogbs was black... in my vagina?

http://www.ourclassweb.com/projects/webquest_frogs_tongue.jpg

open your eyes. also stretch your necks.

YOU DON'T HAVE AN ARGUMENT

yes, you're right, ESPN must have just misplaced the .jpg, that's why they took it down

seriously frogbs you wanna save yourself some trouble? just take ~absolutely everybody~'s word for it that you don't know what you're talking about when the subject of race comes up. adopt a beginner's mind to the subject. assume that whatever you think, you're wrong, and cheerfully accept the group consensus about it.

or keep up your "racist? I'm just saying!" schtick and get banned again, it really doesn't matter, whatever floats your boat

they didn't take it down iirc

i meant all your "what if tom brady in blackface" "what if ichiro was dominican" eh? eh? deep thoughts

omg PP :-D

adopt a beginner's mind to the subject.

this is good advice for lots of things

they took it down then put it back up when everyone was like "uh, you can't just pretend that you put up an illustration of michael vick as a white person"

NEW TOPIC:

This class description is from from the local adult-education center.

In this course, we'll examine the impact of white privilege and how being unaware of that advantage helps perpetuate racism. We'll discuss short readings and share everyday situations in which we did not speak up against racial bias. Using role-plays, we'll develop effective ways to speak up. While this course welcomes everyone, its focus is on the role of white people in dismantling racism and building a just society. Participants will be guided in developing specific plans for challenging racism in their workplace, organizations, communities, or personal circles, and will be encouraged to seek out and develop relationships with people in their lives who can provide support and serve as allies in efforts to address racism. This workshop is participatory, with a variety of inspiring readings, video clips, and activities. Limited to 15.

In the course catalogue, there's a caveat after that copy: "While this class is open to anyone, it is particularly designed to help white people ... " or something like that. I mean, I just don't even know what to ...

hahaha xp

aero - explain in your own words then why the pic was taken down, why it's such a big deal, and why the author tried so hard to distance himself from it. it's not ~absolutely everybody~, it's a selective group of white people with a tendency to make clusterfucks out of non-issues. in other words, maybe look around the internet a bit and see what they're saying?

i mean the thread title is "Is This Racist?" isn't it? shouldn't you be calling out every single poster in here if they're not sure?

The title of the class is WHITE PEOPLE CONFRONTING RACISM

Point missed completely. Well done.

xp

aero - explain in your own words then why the pic was taken down, why it's such a big deal, and why the author tried so hard to distance himself from it. it's not ~absolutely everybody~, it's a selective group of white people with a tendency to make clusterfucks out of non-issues. in other words, maybe look around the internet a bit and see what they're saying?

lol you're hopeless. "look around the internet, maybe listen to some racists? there are places that don't ban people for racist garbage, go hear what those people have to say!"

http://blackfrogmusic.com/pics/sturgis.jpg

ahh. so it's everyone ELSE who has the problem. deadspin is racist. every sports message board is racist. ESPN is racist. the author of that article was a racist. i think this actually explains a lot of your posts.

changing the dude's skincolor was always gonna be controversial. race is quite the issue, frogbs. but your arguments here were terrible, and they routinely are, which is why ppl don't like them, and sometimes you.

Black face is offensive because it was used for several generations to depict ppl as inferior and also because minstrel shows were a smokescreen to appropriate and profit from cultural modes, such as dance and song, that were otherwise too scary.

The long and storied history of whiteface can basically consists of 'White Chicks' to my knowledge and anybody with the remaining privilege attached to being white in this country should probably not bother to be offended or pretend to be offended by that, though I wouldn't necessarily recommend actually paying money to see it.

I understand where you're coming from, frogs, but context is inescapable and pointless provocation is as annoying as pretending not to understand what the fuss is about, so motive is immaterial.

The shop is not great and the writer asked them not to title it 'What if Michael Vick were white?' A little controversy might sell a few more papers, though.

Ok - I seriously do know why black face is offensive and why white face is not. My question is, since that's the case, why the hell was such a big deal made out of the image? My guess was that it sort of begs the question, but yeah I guess not

I like how you disappeared everybody who's not white from this board too - priceless, classic frogbs

also that's not what "begs the question" means you incredibly stupid person