Pretend you have a ballot for the 2012 edition of Sight & Sound's top 10 movies of all time list

imo it should be, should be, p interesting coz dvd and rapidshare have 'changed everything' to an extent

apart from the scrap with ayo scott and manohla dargis, tbh i had never heard of dan kois, idk if he'll make the cut

ditto at eric at being really excited about this - have you been reading the essays agitating on behalf of other contenders? i made it to the cinema to catch vertigo, which i hadn't seen for years, didn't remember so well & couldn't judge, partly compelled by being able to then read the recent piece. l'avventura next, i guess. (& vertigo was terrific, obviously - it's sort of an interesting companion piece to kane itself, in a way, given they're both such all rounders. the colour pops, too).

i don't especially have predictions re: 2012 but i'd sorta be surprised to see bresson fall markedly?, maybe that's just me ..? i don't know whether that's floated as some sort of recognition of his sensibility not totally being in vogue right now, but i would've thought he'd be a lock amongst the kind of voters s&s is polling (which itself is usually a p interesting list ...), he's as clear a 'the best at that kind of thing' field leader as any of the others i can think of.

i was gonna predict something like "20 criterion titles in the top 50" but thought better of it.

imo it should be, should be, p interesting coz dvd and rapidshare have 'changed everything' to an extent

yeah this is v true. i wonder whether there are cinemas that would've still been too present to be safe bets in the last round, also - thinking of like kiarostami's films in the years prior, etc.

That honestly isn't off the mark. Criterion releases reinsert films into the present consciousness, especially the ones whose remastering has included a theatrical rerelease (that usually bring along critical write-ups). xpost

Yi Yi
Fanny and Alexander
7 Up Series (Apted)
Duck Soup
Treasure of the Sierra Madre
McCabe and Mrs. Miller
Jules et Jim
something by Powell and Pressburger or Pasolini or Louis Malle
Rebecca
Pinocchio

7 Up Series (Apted)

somehow, in spite being primed by the docu thread, including this feels slightly lawless to me

I've been doing a Facebook countdown with some friends and just listed Zodiac tenth on my list. I hope you're right about it getting some support, but I still think it's too recent--I'd be surprised if it got more than two or three votes this time around.

I'd agree that, deservedly or not, Malick will do well this time. Bergman and Antonioni may get a bump from their deaths--Bergman seemed to have been steadily falling since the '72 poll.

i'd sorta be surprised to see bresson fall markedly?

yeah his book did very well in this recent s&s 'best books' poll

another new factor may be, well, not vote 'rigging' as such, but... email and blogs will presumably increase the amount of 'comparing notes'

i feel like Antonioni's reputation has been steadily falling as well (though i despair at that development) but maybe that's a false impression.

glad to see my feelings about Bresson might be wrong.

(Contentiously, one critic had three Mann films on his list.)

nrq?

wdn't rule out that being the editor!

glad to see my feelings about Bresson might be wrong.

glad to be erroneously thought of as having deep inside knowledge, ha. idk, i think between there being a school of guys to whom he's still a god, a byword for a certain approach - as a religion to someone like eugene green or as an inspiration to someone else - and another set for whom he just a past master, i figure he should do okay. and rightfully, for me. pickpocket would make my list for sure.

not totally convinced that malick will suddenly shoot up on account of his recent spike, tbh? maybe, even, getting deep here, on account of the fact of a bunch of fraternal films from the same era, near enough, also competing for that kinda reevaluation spot - i forget the name of the studio criterion just reissued the set of, w/head & five easy pieces & all, but i feel like there's a lot of american stuff around from there which people might want to throw a vote to. maybe it's been too long since i've seen days of heaven though, or maybe he'll eat up some of altman's share, malick probably being more contemporary.

it is strange considering the approach, because i'm not totally sure that people are going to have the impulse to go for the things you feel you have to, this time around; like it must feel more and more limiting knowing that kane is your apex when you also have rivette in your back pocket or something else that'll be an emblem for where cinema can take us rather than how it is best practiced.

nick james is a ed yang stan, what a guy.

will you get a ballot hm?

bresson is one of those geezers who suffer from not having one consensus pick from a generally p flawless filmography

REALLY hope that S&S don't treat first and second Godfather as one film this time round, that's such bs.

otm

xpost

idk

jed's gonna intercept your e-mail

and then write in his own list

with #1 donnie darko

and only five other films

#2 The Box

i'm sure hm would be fine with it.

yep!

Slightly lawless how, schlump? I think the films are interesting as projects, not necessarily as films themselves

i think Malick was relatively obscure prior to 1998 and TTRL, and considering that the next poll was 2001, i just feel that his profile is a lot higher, if probably pretty divisive.

thought the consensus Bresson was Au Hasard Balthazar...or Pickpocket. though I'd rep for a LOT of them.

ha, well; i think i just think of the s&s top 10s as quite a particular thing, maybe on account of the fairly canonical dominance of stuff like kane - of it being some kind of enquiry into the basically auteurist craft of feature-making. and so i think i'd feel daring putting 7Up in there because, vis a vis its TV origins & the nature of the project, they feel like they fit more neatly into a different box - that as much as s&s is going for a 'greatest films' list in one sense, it's really more about who used the toolset the best against different historical backdrops. this is obviously no reason not to vote for it, however, & i'd be including docus (gates of heaven) in my list, too, & included the Up series in my list for clemenza's thing. it's just a feeling (that i find you heretical).

i saw nick james talk, a while ago, at a thing that reviewed the last decade in film, not long after the most recent (and great) list of 30 films they put together was published in the magazine. and he'd tried to get yi yi, to screen, both as a highlight of the decade and as a representation of what he saw as a dying breed - he felt like making that kind of opus, on that scale, or on the scale of WKW's stuff, say, was not something that cinema was going to continue doing, that it would probably pad out in different directions. and while i don't think that's necessarily borne out by the facts - i think there are films from argentina & elsewhere that've basically taken the same approach, and not in small numbers - it does feel like there's some kind of truth to it, and i feel a shift in what making a film might mean, now, i guess in the same way that there are those occasional paradigm shifts in what the novel seeks to reflect about society (for me, w/films, it is more using the camera unobtrusively, as an eye, to paint portraits rather than to track action or tell stories, though i think that's probably me being overly gung-ho in appreciation of slow cinema, on account of having in a short spell got hip to a bunch of asian film that i'd slept on and suddenly feels like the future). & this kind of delineation of the shifting aims of films to me kinda exposes the older models, that i feel like the top 10s try to encapsulate - not really docus, not really newer impressionistic stuff but specific, systematic films that were made solidly with a command of their ingredients.

the most recent (and great) list of 30 films they put together

http://www.bfi.org.uk/sightandsound/feature/49591
http://www.bfi.org.uk/sightandsound/feature/49593, btw

^^^ great post. I'm feeling convinced lately that the next great thing in film – obv. not mainstream, american film – will be a reinvigoration of impressionistic styles, driven by the integration of video-game and powerpoint type media

wondering if killer of sheep is ever gonna get S&S love, or ilx love really

It got a few votes in the 2002 poll (four or five maybe?) To Sleep with Anger got a vote or two too.

Jesus God, what kind of maniac thinks Apocalypse Now is better than Raging Bull?

I mean, you did notice that the last third of AN just sucks?

i haven't seen it in a while but i think the first two-thirds of 'apocalypse now,' at least, are great. as someone who's never understood the appeal of any of the 'godfather' flicks, i think AN is probably the only coppola that's ever been a big deal for me (apart from 'rumble fish').

will be a reinvigoration of impressionistic styles, driven by the integration of video-game and powerpoint type media

curious for you to expand on this, remy

re: bresson - i'm not sure, but i think 'man escaped' wld prob be the brit consensus choice, maybe in france, too? the national film theatre in london's programme notes for 'l'argent' always used to claim that it was the best film ever by the best director, ever, and so... seems like 'pickpocket' is the american consensus pick, prob cos of schrader repping for it hard in 'transcendental style', tho i've always thought it was one of rb's less satisfying pics (relatively speaking, obv.) and of course, the correct ans. anyway is 'mouchette'...

Pootie Tang
Pootie Tang
Pootie Tang
Pootie Tang
Pootie Tang
Pootie Tang
Pootie Tang
Pootie Tang
Pootie Tang
Pootie Tang

Jesus God, what kind of maniac thinks Apocalypse Now is better than Raging Bull?

they're both flawed in interesting ways but I prefer AN's interesting ways.

ha, ward, that all sounds right. think that's probably true of a man escaped, & it sorta ticks the right boxes to be considered his definitive pick - as spare as any of them, as serious and as singular.

ages since i've seen mouchette. i think i actually have kinda conflated it w/onibaba. & i still for the most part haven't seen his historical films ...

Also: Antonioni's reputation has been more uneven than any other major director in these polls.

fuck, been thinking too much about this so now i have to do one. these are the movies i'd want to give a push, even if they'd never make the top hundred

spirit of the beehive
killer of sheep
my neighbor totoro
koyaanisqatsi
playtime
dekalog series
the iron giant
ikiru
the seventh seal
blade runner

that's 10 but wings of desire and russian ark and probably some more films are equal. gummo got a vote in 2002 and i might hypothetically vote for it in contrarian solidarity. or maybe i'd throw a vote to shawshank, which might be more contrarian in this context.

"semi-honest" ten
Scarface (1932)
Kind Hearts and Coronets (1949)
Night and the City (1950)
Vertigo (1958)
Last Year at Marienbad (1961)
Playtime (1967)
Once Upon a Time in the West (1968)
Pee Wee's Big Adventure (1985)
Crumb (1994)
Sin City (2005)

"strategy" ten
Sunrise (1927)
The Passion of Joan of Arc (1928)
The Third Man (1949)
Vertigo (1958)
Last Year at Marienbad (1961)
Playtime (1967)
2001 (1968)
Once Upon a Time in the West (1968)
Taxi Driver (1976)
Mulholland Dr. (2001)

i think i could be reasonably comfortable with a top 20, but a top ten is just brutal; everything that's an exemplar of great, well-executed narrative stuff gets pushed into 11 - 20 because i feel like the top ten should be populated by kinda sui generis weird stuff that's more about cinema as a medium (can't really explain this distinction, but something about montage & communication as priorities rather than narrative or performance).

is there any "action" movie that would ever have a shot at the top 25 or so? The Road Warrior?

The Opening of Misty Beethoven

battleship potemkin

seven samurai, duh!

Seven Samurai was tied for 9th last time in the directors' poll

xp!

Wages of Fear should get more votes.

Seven Samurai is a total duh, of course. I guess i was fixated on a particular post-70s idea of an action movie.

Any post-70s movie getting into S&S is sort of a quixotic proposal.

guys, the sight and sound poll has just become officially irrelevant. we are finally getting The New Canon.

Any post-70s movie getting into S&S is sort of a quixotic proposal.

i think we might've touched on this upthread, but isn't one of the perks of anticipating 2012 the 'changed viewing landscape' & you know celebrating that we live during the third act of kiarostami's career, with everything that means about recent films entering the canon?

Question for Eric, Morbs, etc. If you had to pick one film post 1989 to vote for in S&S, which would it be? What about post 1999?

I wouldn't give up on Raging Bull yet in terms of a (barely) post-'70s film. It tied for 6th in the directors' poll last time; probably its biggest obstacle in gaining further ground this time would be Scorsese's mediocre output the past 10 years.