Taking sides: UK vs US

'Fashionable' suggests the left is just following hemline trends. Well, I guess an electrified perimeter fence imprisoning people in a tiny fraction of their own land is a 'hemline' of sorts.

But again I have to ask, just what would Sharon have to do before we could condemn his actions without being called 'anti-semitic'? At what point would his identity as brute and bully trump his 'master identity' as jew and therefore, apparently, 'eternal victim'? Or can that point simply never be reached?

If you gather: in light of WWII, already an international historical obsession, the painful irony of the current situation is what makes U.S. military aid to Israel both so easy to obsess over and hard to think rationally about. PANT! PANT! JEW-HATER!!!!!!!

Now, you may come up with different results, but in my model the Israelis are forced to develop a self-sustaining economy that's actually attuned to the small Mediterranean country they're in. They're forced to get along with their neighbours. Something similar happens in Britain, which has to integrate into Europe. Not a bad world, that.

But again I have to ask, just what would Sharon have to do before we could condemn his actions without being called 'anti-semitic'? At what point would his identity as brute and bully trump his 'master identity' as jew and therefore, apparently, 'eternal victim'? Or can that point simply never be reached?

Momus, I basically agree with you here... I don't think many people are denying that Sharon is an brutal heavy-handed mass-murdering fucker. But surely you'd agree that Israel/Palestine as a problem is given media coverage disproportionate to that of, say, Congo or Chechnya or, indeed, Turkey or Egypt. This is as much to do with media fashion than anything else (I'll exclude Zimbabwe here, because in terms of 'causes', that is the Israel of The Right).

Ultimately, I don't believe it really has as much to do with the fact that there are Jews involved as the very visible presence of the US in the background. Maybe 'fashion' is the wrong word, but there are certain whims and trends prevalent on the more cynical side of the Left - removal of Saddam Hussein was a very popular cause among Socialists up until the point when the US-UK decided they didn't like him any more.

when i arrived i was interviewed for about 20 minutes, i was told i didnt have enough clothes for my duration and that this was suspicious, one of the officials was concerned about the david foster wallace book i was reading, and asked me some questions about that also.

there were many questions about my job

i came away with the impression that the vigour they put into their job was more to do with them thinking i was going to become an illegal alien than anything to do with my potential terrorist ambitions.

i also do not believe that it is productive to argue with oops on this kind of matter. although oops is a friendly and respectful person much of the time, i'm not sure that his ability is so strong in this kind of area. although it is unclear whether this is an intentional device or not, i have found the absence of flexibility or ability to listen means that discourse becomes impossible. i think his pronouncements are nice to look at, but are not really worth engagement

Once and for all, to say that Sharon's Israel is currently totally out of line in penning the Palestinians into a virtual cage in their own land is not to be anti-semitic!

Heh - but that's not what you said, of course.

The 'objectification' line didn't fly on the bukkake thread, and the 'hands off Sharon, he's jewish!' line won't fly on this one. Your Victim Politics benefits no-one, J0hn, and especially not the people you so kindly designate 'victims'.

Heh - that's not what J0hn said, either.

Why so defensive, Momus? Why so furiously backpedaling from your initial claim?

Well said Gareth, and it brings up a small aside I feel worth mentioning.

I came away from that whole exchange thinking "shit, I hope I never say something I word a little badly on this board, I'll obviously be ripped to shreds and judged for it, even if it is plain arguing certain political semantics isnt my strong point".

I next to never engage in these so-called "intelligent" arguments, the ones some people wish there were more of - because some of you make it extremely intimidating to do so, with your demands every little ambiguity be stamped on and floodlit.

Just, I dunno - keep that in mind, maybe? *shrug*

If you don't understand, don't paraphrase. 'Angrael' is my name for an alliance between Israel, the US and the UK. On the one hand 'Angrael' is just a sci-fi cautionary tale. In other ways, it's all too real.

Taking sides: Angrael versus Europe?

Momus is like my stereotype of a college student except he has done the reading for 7 or 8 more degrees.

Nonsense, I've hardly read anything. I'm like a college student, only 20 years older and with a more stupid hairstyle.

http://www.imomus.com/dailyphoto101103.html

Coming to a theatre near you.

i thought the thread was pretty light-hearted up to that point, and oops jibe was just a jibe...and then *kapow*, er, what?

Good point stence - also, gaz did (quietly) point out his customs experience was in 1994, well before any of this current terrorist hoo-ha.

And for bitchiness' sake, I'll point out that I've had my stuff rudely searched by Spanish airport security upon leaving two times now, but hey I still love Spain and would go back in a minute if I could. One rude person in a country /= all people in a country

I wasn't sure wether to be relieved or insulted! =)

What the fuck planet are you on?

I don't understand what's so goddammed funny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzj1OF7d9m4

I mean, they're the ones who drink tea from gas cans.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3782563/I-lost-husband-sacred-ground-m-disgusted-British-stag-cause-outrage-taking-selfies-NAKED-BLOW-DOLL-Ground-Zero-eve-15th-anniversary-9-11-police-order-leave.html

OK, fine. Limeys win.

https://i.imgur.com/8fMzRjL.jpg