― scott m (mcd), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 19:07 (twenty years ago) link
Amateurist: hyperbolic, eh maybe. But really, I can't think of a single performer who placed such a heavy premium on rock n roll as a vehicle for personal expression (or the illusion thereof) prior to Dylan. Elvis was a personality, but it was obvious right from the beginning he was singing other people's songs, directed by others, singing in an established idiom (blues lyrics), etc. With Dylan, you had someone forcing you to listen to a language and delivery that was highly individualized, way more so than anyone before him. I'm not knocking his many predecessors or the styles they worked in, I just think Dylan was at the crux of a massive shift in the language of rock, and that makes him pretty, er, "defensible".
― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 1 October 2003 19:08 (twenty years ago) link
― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 19:09 (twenty years ago) link
I understand what you're trying to say, Shakey, but this is fallacious. number one, Elvis directed his own sessions most of the time--something his nominal producers (Sam Phillips, Felton Jarvis) have said on the record numerous times. two, casting Elvis as merely a "blues singer" ignores not only the dozens of other things going on in his music at any given time, especially his vocal style. three, that delivery was as highly individualized as anything Dylan did--Elvis just had a prettier voice to deliver it with.
― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 19:18 (twenty years ago) link
Dylan was great, and we was an innovator but he didn't INVENT what you ascribe to him
― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 19:20 (twenty years ago) link
― scott m (mcd), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 19:22 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 19:23 (twenty years ago) link
― King Kobra (King Kobra), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 19:24 (twenty years ago) link
― Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 19:25 (twenty years ago) link
― Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 19:31 (twenty years ago) link
The value of Bob Dylan is connected to the voice. The 'can't sing' thing.... I think the word 'singer' is used too often, like some people think the word 'genius' is used too often. Dylan really sings. If you don't hear this, just don't bother. The lyrics are good, mostly, fantastic occasionally, but really the point of them is not to let the voice down.
― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 19:44 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 19:52 (twenty years ago) link
HAhahahahahahahahaha. That made my day. I personally don't enjoy Bob Dylan's music at all. Never have. I've tried, mind you (after a good friend's tireless insistence that in dismissing Bob Dylan that I'm shamefully missing out on the greatest music known to man), but it just isn't there for me. That said, I'd hardly call him "indefensible". If anything. The man's deified to ridiculous degrees, and you're verily taking your life in your hands if you dare say anything against him (or at least around stodgy folkies, roots rockers, aging hippies, self-appointed poetry "slammers", aging rock critics, etc. etc.) I don't think the man should be put to death or anything, but I just don't enjoy his music.
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 20:54 (twenty years ago) link
― Sam J. (samjeff), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 21:04 (twenty years ago) link
Was Dylan the first real example of the best rock and roll vocal device ever, the SNEER? If so, he deserves canonisation just for that, regardless of any of the other factors. (Thom Yorke and John Lydon to thread.)
― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 21:05 (twenty years ago) link
Then again, if I like Fred Durst's voice, it should be any surprise I can handle Dylan's.
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 21:08 (twenty years ago) link
― Sam J. (samjeff), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 21:10 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 21:15 (twenty years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 21:18 (twenty years ago) link
― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 21:24 (twenty years ago) link
I wouldn't be too surprised to wake up to similar threads betales, rolling stones and beethoven. its unfortunate but its ilm.
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 21:28 (twenty years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 21:29 (twenty years ago) link
ew
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 21:30 (twenty years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 21:32 (twenty years ago) link
― Cardinal Fang (Cardinal Fang), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 21:46 (twenty years ago) link
(i said that.)
― Annouschka Magnatech (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 22:13 (twenty years ago) link
― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 22:33 (twenty years ago) link
What's that crap?
(Dan Perry: That's not crap, that's shit, that is.)
― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 22:47 (twenty years ago) link
kogan, in response: 'i know, who does he think you are? bob dylan?')
― David. (Cozen), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 22:49 (twenty years ago) link
Bob Dylan=0.17Robert ForsterBob Dylan=18.90Tom Petty
Therefore Robert Forster=111.17647Tom Petty
― peepee (peepee), Thursday, 2 October 2003 02:03 (twenty years ago) link
Alex, you rock, but 'Oh the ironing' etc
― Dave M. (rotten03), Thursday, 2 October 2003 03:00 (twenty years ago) link
― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 2 October 2003 07:26 (twenty years ago) link
― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Thursday, 2 October 2003 08:16 (twenty years ago) link
― Bruce Urquhart (Bruce Urquhart), Thursday, 2 October 2003 08:29 (twenty years ago) link
― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 2 October 2003 08:48 (twenty years ago) link
― David. (Cozen), Thursday, 2 October 2003 09:09 (twenty years ago) link
Bob Dylan is a vocalist, not a singer - crap.
― Alex K (Alex K), Thursday, 2 October 2003 12:09 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex K (Alex K), Thursday, 2 October 2003 12:12 (twenty years ago) link
sorry, for the most part bob dylan just doesn't connect with me. there's the odd song here and there that i like -- "positively fourth street," (title? it's the one where he goes "you've got a lot of nerve ..."), "lay lady lay," and "it's all over now, baby blue" -- and i recognize his importance. but my honest reaction is -- BFD. there are some things about him and his music to which i'm just not predisposed in the first place -- the singer-songwriter schtick, his "rootsy"/folksy music, and yeah his voice -- though i've made exceptions re the foregoing for certain others (neil young comes immediately to mind), i just don't connect AT ALL to dylan's music.
― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 10 November 2003 07:28 (twenty years ago) link
― musicmope (musicmope), Monday, 10 November 2003 12:09 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 10 November 2003 15:46 (twenty years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Monday, 10 November 2003 17:27 (twenty years ago) link
09/13/2005 4:04 PM, E! OnlineCharlie Amter
Canadians attempting to buy Bob Dylan albums may temporarily be left blowing in the wind.
One of the nation's largest record chains, HMV Canada, has pulled the entire Dylan catalog from store shelves to protest the folk-rock icon's deal to exclusively sell his latest album in Starbucks stores, according to Toronto's Globe and Mail.
Bob Dylan: Live at the Gaslight 1962 collects songs recorded at the famed New York venue, including early versions of the classics "A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall" and "Don't Think Twice, It's Alright." It went on sale Aug. 30 at Starbucks' 4,600 outlets in the U.S. and Canada for $13.95. The coffee giant has exclusive rights to the Dylan disc for 18 months before the disc is available at regular retailers--the longest such window that Starbucks has secured yet.
Felling miffed, HMV Canada, a subsidiary of U.K.-based retailer HMV, reacted by yanking all Dylan discs for the duration of the Starbucks' promotion. The retailer's Dylan diss isn't unprecedented: HMV did the same earlier this year in retaliation for native daughter Alanis Morissette's similar deal with Starbucks.
While it's not immediately clear how much HMV's protest will end up hurting Dylan sales, the timing couldn't be worse for his Sony-based label, Columbia Records.
Columbia had been preparing for a Dylan sales renaissance this fall thanks in part to the release of Martin Scorsese's highly anticipated documentary, No Direction Home: Bob Dylan, which gets its world premiere Saturday at the Toronto International Film Festival. It will be released on DVD Sept. 20 and run on PBS the following week. The soundtrack, featuring 26 previously unreleased tracks, drops Tuesday. There will also be a companion coffee-table book. Meanwhile, Dylan's best-selling memoir, Chronicles: Volume One, has just been released in paperback.
HMV Canada's president, Humphrey Kadaner, told the Globe and Mail his company "will not be actively stocking, displaying nor promoting Dylan." He also proudly noted that his efforts in the past to stop exclusives from happening outside of his 108 stores "has prevented other exclusive products from crossing the U.S. border into Canada."
So far, the HMV's U.S. stores have not followed suit, but other traditional music retailers like Virgin and Tower are on record as intensely disliking the exclusive marketing agreements struck by record labels and retail giants like Best Buy and especially Starbucks.
Name-brand artists of Dylan's ilk have been increasingly drawn to the latte-slinging megachain; the Seattle-based company has ramped up its music efforts in recent years, catering to its customer base.
Caffeine junkies can now buy a variety of adult-alternative CDs--from Elvis Costello to Joni Mitchell to Michael Buble--and even make customized discs at some outlets. It was Starbucks that was credited with the massive success of Ray Charles' Genius Loves Company, accounting for a full 25 percent of the Grammy-winning disc's nearly 4 million copies.
Ken Lombard, president of Starbucks Entertainment told Billboard last month the Dylan exclusive was "a win-win for everybody involved."
Starbucks doesn't always get its way, however. In May, the caffeine-enabling chain was unable to lock up a deal to exclusively selle Bruce Springsteen's Devil & Dust. Starbucks tried to claim the deal fell through because of racy content on one of the tracks, but Springsteen's camp insisted the blue-collar rocker pulled the plug on the disc because he loathes merchandising his music.
― shookout (shookout), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 23:39 (eighteen years ago) link
― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 01:03 (eighteen years ago) link
― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 01:32 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 01:34 (eighteen years ago) link
― polyphonic (polyphonic), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 01:38 (eighteen years ago) link
I've tried to "get" Bob Dylan, but I can't get past the fact that he sounds like a knackered old mule slowly expiring in the noonday heat.
The only way I can rationalise his appeal is by concluding that some people like listening to Dylan in the same way that other people like being hogtied and sodomised with baseball bats.
I also strongly suspect there is a large subset of people who like to do both.
― PhilK, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 08:39 (sixteen years ago) link
fuck off.
― J.D., Wednesday, 1 August 2007 10:34 (sixteen years ago) link
Have you wondered enough yet?
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 19 August 2021 21:13 (two years ago) link
yeah I’ll shut up now
― JoeStork, Thursday, 19 August 2021 21:15 (two years ago) link
i dont post bc news like this makes me shut downi can’t even give my energy to speculation of ~any~ kind because it’s just so sad in and of itself i think that’s the bigger picture as i see it - not that anyone’s accusing or exonerating anyone but ilx collectively just has this way of intensely interrogating things immediately re subjects that leave me reeling and sometimes it’d be good if you all just took a breath FIRST and read the room as a whole subject-wise, instead of getting all grassy-knolled out about literally everything all the time
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 19 August 2021 21:49 (two years ago) link
thank you VG, otm
― sleeve, Thursday, 19 August 2021 21:52 (two years ago) link
vg otm
I haven't been posting because - frankly - I'm very much in the "I hope he didn't do this" camp, and I've felt sick ever since the story broke. And tbh I'm grateful to the people posting about the conflict of dates etc. because it gives me some hope that's letting me, like, go about my day and eat meals and not just curl up in a ball as I wait for more information to emerge. Because as a woman - and speaking only for myself - I would feel devastated and betrayed if it turned out that a male artist whose work I love, and who I've felt a deep sense of personal gratitude toward at many points in my life, turned out to have done something like this. So I'm strenuously hoping he didn't do it, awaiting more information, and doing my best not to completely lose it in the meantime. And I haven't posted because I'm afraid if I say something like that I'll be called a rape apologist, and I'm not good at being in internet fights, I tend to take them personally.
Also, one of the things I generally like about ilx is that people know each other and don't have to make the kind of assumptions of bad faith that you see in, like, large-scale Twitter arguments. And yet on this thread I get the impression people are reflexively assuming bad faith anyway, and that bothers me. So I've stayed quiet because I'm uncomfortable when ilx gets like this. It doesn't have anything to do with thinking ilx is supporting rape culture. Maybe for other people it does, idk. We women are not a monolithic group.
― Lily Dale, Friday, 20 August 2021 04:49 (two years ago) link
i feel that *hoping they didnt do it* element too, definitely going through a bit of that as welllily, thank you for stating that so eloquently
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 20 August 2021 04:59 (two years ago) link
that's real, lily <3
― STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Friday, 20 August 2021 05:23 (two years ago) link
I'll be in the camp of "now that we've had a full circle of accusations (Bob Dylan, lawyers, biographers, internet, twitter, ILX, legal system), can we stop panicking, go back to being patient, and leave the alleged victim and accused their full respective rights ?" Or does it have to be a shitstorm all the time.
― Nabozo, Friday, 20 August 2021 06:21 (two years ago) link
Personally I won’t post about it (unless/until I guess something definitive happens, if it ever does). Posting here was my way of “processing” and dealing with the pit in my stomach. I have more I could discuss about the emotional impact but I guess we have other threads for that, and the time may not be ripe for a while.
― Shallot Shortage 2021 (morrisp), Friday, 20 August 2021 07:05 (two years ago) link
The lawsuit has been permanently withdrawn after the plaintiff asked the federal judge overseeing the case to dismiss it “with prejudice,” meaning it will be permanently closed and cannot be refiled. The move came after she was accused of deleting key messages and threatened with monetary sanctions.
― birdistheword, Friday, 29 July 2022 00:56 (one year ago) link
peak Dylan
https://archive.org/details/s-08b_full/02.+THE+MAN+IN+ME.flac
― | (Latham Green), Tuesday, 17 January 2023 20:16 (one year ago) link
nice!
― corrs unplugged, Wednesday, 18 January 2023 13:41 (one year ago) link
that's a mean cold irons bound too
― corrs unplugged, Wednesday, 18 January 2023 13:45 (one year ago) link
This show is pretty freaking great. Can anyone recommend me a complete live show on archive I need to hear from the Larry Campbell-Charlie Sexton period?
― Unfairport Convention (PBKR), Thursday, 19 January 2023 00:16 (one year ago) link
If I had to pick one, the one at Halle Münsterland in Münster, Germany on October 1, 2000.
Or, if you prefer Dylan on piano, the one at Pauline Davis Pavilion in Red Bluff, CA, USA on October 7, 2002.
― birdistheword, Thursday, 19 January 2023 01:32 (one year ago) link
great recordings thank you
― treeship., Thursday, 19 January 2023 01:44 (one year ago) link
i love that live album with the flute. budokan. that is my idiosyncratic favorite.
― treeship., Thursday, 19 January 2023 01:45 (one year ago) link
he appreciates the plasticity of his own songs and is essentially devoted to live performance. i love that.
― treeship., Thursday, 19 January 2023 01:46 (one year ago) link
elsewhere on this site i have written about being at the 1999 show at tramps in new york, which was great (elvis costello was there and got on stage for an encore, singing 'i shall be released'). great audio from the soundboard. incredible version of Visions of Johanna. crowd VEWRY rowdy.
https://www.wolfgangs.com/music/bob-dylan/audio/20022342-814.html?tid=54412
https://www.boblinks.com/072699r.html
i'm sure i remember the flacs being available somewhere, or on youtube
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 19 January 2023 10:16 (one year ago) link
Bizarre Bob Dylan melody -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBe8zZ0OKlk
Only actor/singer George Maharis is credited, but there's also folk duo Joe and Eddie, Dionne Warwick and the Animals (their classic line-up) doing a very not-like-the-Animals-at-all rendition of "It Ain't Me, Babe."
― birdistheword, Monday, 26 June 2023 16:40 (nine months ago) link
Enjoying “philosophy of modern song” and an accompanying playlist on YouTube.
― calstars, Thursday, 14 December 2023 16:59 (three months ago) link
Extraordinary
― Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 14 December 2023 17:15 (three months ago) link
hoping for some defenses of the indefensible: bob dylan today
― ꙮ (map), Thursday, 14 December 2023 17:18 (three months ago) link