― sundar subramanian (sundar), Tuesday, 28 January 2003 04:38 (sixteen years ago) link
and then coltrane is playing his scales like crazy, garrison just fades. its a slow fade, I'm trying to listen to him but even the tape hiss is making more noise at the end and when coltrane does his bit is the turn of pharoah sanders/rashied ali/alice coltrane trio. I don't whether Alice knows what to do really...you keep hearing those piano notes but it gets harder to pay any attention to her and she sounds as if she was taken aback, only ali can keep up with sanders, they are just so 'in tune' with each other. Pharoah sanders' solo is just a thing of beauty...he starts off playing these 'sorrowful' notes but gradually he becomes keeps squealing and blowing so hard that he actually transforms the alto to some sort synth but there's no 'common logic' (its some other sort of logic) to what he's playing (unlike a lot of 'warp' type stuff)...anyway, sanders/Ali make this track.
Coltrane comes back and he and sanders throw little sax lines at the each to round off with Ali to round it all off.
If a live album's purpose is to make you wish you were there then this fulfills that purpose.
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 28 January 2003 09:40 (sixteen years ago) link
but historically - and vital for understanding "a love supreme" properly - you need to hear his '57 recordings with monk.
― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 28 January 2003 09:51 (sixteen years ago) link
I'm still mad at the uncut reviewer who wrote a review of the last concert. it was basically: 'Free jazz is not my bag so don't bother'.
excuse my unpolished previous post on this.
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 28 January 2003 10:02 (sixteen years ago) link
what do other people think of 'infinity'? i've been thinking about starting a thread about it, but i guess this'll do. for me the strings = classic, but i can see how the cd piss a lot of people off.
― toby (tsg20), Tuesday, 28 January 2003 10:11 (sixteen years ago) link
I was looking for the live in japan 4CD box (it is a 4CD box yes?) but I couldn't find it at tower. must stop by HMV sometime.
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 28 January 2003 10:28 (sixteen years ago) link
― Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Tuesday, 28 January 2003 21:21 (sixteen years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 28 January 2003 21:30 (sixteen years ago) link
That Ahsley Khan bk abt ALS is worth getting just for the pic of Ayler playing at JC's funeral - never seen that shot B4.
H*V doesn't have the 'Live in Japan' box, Julio - it must be out of print. In general, the collapse of the revived Impulse label has kind of left late period Coltrane reissues in limbo - now wld be a gd time to snap 'em up (or wait until the next set of superduper deluxe whatsits)
― Andrew L (Andrew L), Tuesday, 28 January 2003 21:37 (sixteen years ago) link
grebt review of the book there andrew!
thanks for that andrew. so Impulse went down then that's a shame. The coltrane rack at tower was looking a bit 'empty' (though they are closing now but still).
I'm gonna try and get what's there i think.
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 28 January 2003 21:48 (sixteen years ago) link
― hstencil, Tuesday, 28 January 2003 21:50 (sixteen years ago) link
i have a question concerning the mixing quality of the album though. the cd i have has both saxes on the right channel and the drums on the left. the stereo sound is totally unbalanced as the saxes are so much louder than the rest. i always put the balance knob to the maximum level for the left channel. otherwise my right ear would get harmed when i put up the volume so that i can hear something from the left speaker. is that normal?
― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Sunday, 11 June 2006 16:47 (thirteen years ago) link
people used to put lots of effort into thinking and talking about actual records here, didn't they. well.
― tom west (thomp), Sunday, 11 June 2006 17:06 (thirteen years ago) link
― Dominique (dleone), Saturday, 9 September 2006 22:57 (twelve years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 9 September 2006 23:06 (twelve years ago) link
Coltrane bassist r.i.p.
Art Davis, 73; known for mastery of the bass, also was a psychologist
By Jocelyn Y. Stewart, LA Times Staff Writer
August 4, 2007
Art Davis, the renowned double bassist who played with John Coltrane and other jazz greats, was blacklisted in the 1970s for speaking up about racism in the music industry, and then later in life earned a doctorate in clinical psychology and balanced performance dates with appointments to see patients, has died. He was 73.
Davis, a player whom jazz critic Nat Hentoff once described as "an astonishing player" and "beyond category," died of a heart attack Sunday at his home in Long Beach, said his son Kimaili Davis.
"He was adventurous with his approach to playing music," said pianist Nate Morgan, who played with the elder Davis intermittently over the last 10 years. "It takes a certain amount of integrity to step outside the box and say, 'I like it here and I'm going to hang here for a while.' "
Known for his stunning and complete mastery of the instrument, Davis was able to genre-hop comfortably. He played classical music with the New York Philharmonic, was a member of the NBC, Westinghouse and CBS orchestras, and played for Broadway shows.
The most intense and enriching experience of Davis' career was his collaboration with John Coltrane. Described by Hentoff as Coltrane's favorite bassist, Davis performed on the saxophonist's albums including "Ascension," Volumes 1 and 2 of "The Africa/Brass Sessions" and "Ole Coltrane." The two musicians met one night in the late 1950s at Small's Paradise, a jazz club in Harlem, where Davis was playing with drummer Max Roach. Coltrane invited Davis to play with him the following morning at one of his legendary grueling practice sessions.
A few years later, when Coltrane was building his quartet, he invited Davis to join. By then he had become averse to touring and so declined, although he periodically played with the group.
Davis viewed his instrument as "the backbone of the band," one that should "inspire the group by proposing harmonic information with a certain sound quality and rhythmic impulses," Davis said in an excerpt from So What magazine posted on his website. "You let the bass do the talking. A bassist cannot be satisfied with playing straight." By following his own advice, Davis' career flourished. He played with a long and varied list of artists: Thelonious Monk, Duke Ellington, Rahsaan Roland Kirk, Louis Armstrong, Judy Garland, John Denver, the trio Peter, Paul and Mary and Bob Dylan.
Pianist Ahmad Jamal once dubbed Davis the "forgotten genius" because the outspoken bassist had been blacklisted for many years. Davis' decision to take a stand against racism was born of his experiences in music.
Davis began studying piano at age 5 in Harrisburg, Pa., where he was born Dec. 5, 1933. By sixth grade Davis studied the tuba in school simply because it was the only instrument available, he said.
By 1951 he decided to make music his career but chose the double bass, believing it would allow more opportunities to make a living. At age 17 he studied with the principal double bassist at the Philadelphia Orchestra. But when he auditioned for his hometown's symphony, the audition committee was so unduly harsh and demanding that the conductor Edwin MacArthur questioned their objectivity.
"The answer was, 'Well, he's ['colored']' — and there was silence," Davis recalled in a 2002 article in Double Bassist magazine. "Finally MacArthur burst out, 'If you don't want him, then you don't want me.' So they quickly got together and accepted me." After high school, Davis studied classical music on scholarship at the Manhattan School of Music and the Juilliard School of Music. At night he played jazz in New York clubs.
"It all sounded good to me — and I felt I could do a number of different fields," he told Double Bassist. "I was of one the first to switch back and forth from jazz to classical."
But the switch was not always an easy one. Davis encountered situations where race was more important than performance. In the 1970s, his fortunes waned after he filed an unsuccessful discrimination lawsuit against the New York Philharmonic. Like other black musicians who challenged job hiring practices, he lost work and important industry connections.
"As a person, he had enormous integrity," Hentoff said in an interview this week. "He wouldn't bend to accommodate bias or the ignorance of some of the people in the music business."
With less work coming his way, Davis returned to school and in 1981 earned a doctorate in clinical psychology from New York University. Davis was for many years a practicing psychologist while also working as a musician.
"I went up against the big power people and lost 10 years of my life. I feel vindicated [through his court case], and I wouldn't be a Dr. Art Davis if it hadn't happened," he told Double Bassist.
As a result of his lawsuit and protest, Davis played a key role in the increased use of the so-called blind audition, in which musicians are heard but not seen by those evaluating them, Hentoff said.
The accomplished musician also pioneered a fingering technique for the bass and wrote "The Arthur Davis System for Double Bass."
Davis also wore the hat of university professor; for two years he taught at UC Irvine. Most recently Davis was a part-time music instructor at Orange Coast College in Costa Mesa. He could be regularly heard on Sundays at the Ritz-Carlton in Laguna Niguel. Among musicians, Davis was highly respected for his work and his role in the Coltrane legacy.
"And he always had a great attitude, no matter what kind of music we were playing or how difficult the circumstances were," said Jan Jordan, the pianist who played with Davis at the Ritz.
"He always reached out to people in the audience."
― curmudgeon, Saturday, 4 August 2007 23:17 (eleven years ago) link
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Saturday, 4 August 2007 23:39 (eleven years ago) link
RIP, a remarkable man.
Phil's explanation of "playing the changes" on this thread is so clear and to the point -- it sheds a lot of light in three short paragraphs.
― Brad C., Monday, 6 August 2007 00:06 (eleven years ago) link
As close to a God to me as anything I hold dear. Sincerely. God schmod.
― Saxby D. Elder, Monday, 6 August 2007 00:16 (eleven years ago) link
Looks like the AP and NY Times just found out about Art Davis.
― James Redd and the Blecchs, Friday, 24 August 2007 06:03 (eleven years ago) link
for the "far out free jazz" type stuff, just look for anything from 1964 to 1967 (the year he died)
my favorites are a love supreme, one down one up (recently released live recording with a long insane title track solo), interstellar space, stellar regions (this one was unreleased until the 90s or something, it's awesome), and live in japan (4 cd set with intense long ass songs).
― bstep, Friday, 24 August 2007 18:37 (eleven years ago) link
hate when ppl say blue train is 'boring'
― deej, Friday, 24 August 2007 18:39 (eleven years ago) link
yeah the solo on blue train is awesome
― bstep, Friday, 24 August 2007 18:41 (eleven years ago) link
more like BLUE LAME
― Jordan, Friday, 24 August 2007 18:48 (eleven years ago) link
I did get that "Live In Japan" box -- quite an interesting, disjointed group that came up with some pretty corrosive passages. xp
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 24 August 2007 18:51 (eleven years ago) link
Is there somebody speaking in tongues during Tyner's solo on "My Favorite Things" from New Thing at Newport??
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 3 March 2008 05:29 (eleven years ago) link
What the hell is that? Thought it was bowed bass, but you can hear pizz clearly. Is it maybe Trane just puttering? I really can't tell.
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 3 March 2008 05:30 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, that is 'Trane doing his basso profundo incantating.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Monday, 3 March 2008 08:58 (eleven years ago) link
heheh "Search And Destroy John Coltrane" sounds like the heading to a Philip Larkin jazz review!
― Dingbod Kesterson, Monday, 3 March 2008 08:59 (eleven years ago) link
any AWESOME books I should read about Coltrane?
― rizzx, Thursday, 10 April 2008 12:52 (eleven years ago) link
Not yet read it myself, but this is meant to be v. gd and is likely the easiest to find:
― Ward Fowler, Thursday, 10 April 2008 13:02 (eleven years ago) link
Africa/Brass (shite Greensleeves is on it, but...
omar u crazy! it's a beautiful start to A/B, if a weird choice.
― andrew m., Thursday, 10 April 2008 14:33 (eleven years ago) link
...he tells omar 6 years later
I've found that usually muttering that sounds like "speaking in tongues" on live jazz recordings is the sound of the pianist or drummer vocalizing as they play, and the close proximity of the mics picking it up. Not having heard that piece in a while, I suspect that it's Tyner. You can hear Bud Powell, and countless other pianists doing the same thing. I'd posit that there's nothing particularly spiritual or mystical about it.
― Usual Channels, Thursday, 10 April 2008 14:40 (eleven years ago) link
i always thought the muttering was elvin jones, though now that you mention it, i'm not sure why i assumed that ... but uhhh yeah, that Coltrane book by Ratliff is pretty solid. Not the same ol same ol Coltrane is God kinda stuff, but a fresh ears approach.
― tylerw, Thursday, 10 April 2008 15:14 (eleven years ago) link
I haven't heard the recording in question, but as someone who was forced to go to Pentecostal church for 17 years, does it sound like "SHA la la la la la Fie sha lala, sha lie COM la la la la la, fie sha la la com lie"? Because that's what speaking in tongues sounds like.
― Z S, Thursday, 10 April 2008 17:21 (eleven years ago) link
meditations WOW! nothing else to say, just have the feeling this is becoming my favorite album
― sonderangerbot, Friday, 5 March 2010 19:51 (nine years ago) link
yeah, Meditations. I put it on one Sunday morning, knowing little about Coltrane; halfway through the first song I was screaming and in tears (in an awesome way, if that makes any sense)---was happy no one else was around.
― begs the question, when is enough enough (Euler), Friday, 5 March 2010 19:53 (nine years ago) link
lol that makes perfect sense actually and would probably be a compliment to all of these guys except elvin jones who i understand didn't care for this thing at all. luckily you can't tell
― sonderangerbot, Friday, 5 March 2010 20:41 (nine years ago) link
whenever this thread opens and I see "Blue Train...boring as fuck" I'm like whaaaaa? I understand that it has a weird, maybe slightly overrated status being Coltrane's only Blue Note record, but uhhh, that record is not boring!
― tylerw, Friday, 5 March 2010 20:47 (nine years ago) link
but, i can see how someone whose fave bands are Beefheart and the Stooges maybe not being a fan. i think it's one of the best "late-night" listens i own
― If you can believe your eyes and ears (outdoor_miner), Friday, 5 March 2010 22:45 (nine years ago) link
The "Crescent" on disk 2 of Live In Japan, from 1966, is incredible! Alice's piano interlude achieves liftoff without losing the groove.
― Euler, Friday, 9 July 2010 08:57 (nine years ago) link
Can't believe no-one has mentioned Olé in this thread
― bham, Friday, 9 July 2010 09:30 (nine years ago) link
I can't imagine any Beefheart fan not appreciating Coltrane. Beefheart certainly did, though he was quoted most referring to Coleman and Ayler.
After A Love Supreme:
My Favorite Things (Atlantic) 60Crescent (Impulse) 64Meditations (Impulse) 65 First Meditations (For Quartet) (Impulse) 65Transition (Impulse) 65 Giant Steps (Atlantic) 59The John Coltrane Quartet Plays (Impulse) 65Ole Coltrane (Atlantic) 61 Coltrane Plays The Blues (Atlantic) 60 Coltrane (Impulse) 62 Sun Ship (Impulse) 65 Ballads (Impulse) 61 Africa/Brass (Impulse) 61 John Coltrane With Johnny Hartman (Impulse) 63 Impressions (Impulse) 63 Coltrane Live At Birdland (Impulse) 63 Live At The Village Vanguard (Impulse) 61 Newport '63 (Impulse!) 63 The Avant-Garde (Atlantic) 60 Blue Train (Blue Note) 57 Coltrane's Sound (Atlantic) 60 Coltrane Jazz (Atlantic) 59 Soultrane (OJC/Prestige) 58 Black Pearls (OJC/Fantasy) 58 Duke Ellington and John Coltrane (Impulse) 62
― Fastnbulbous, Friday, 9 July 2010 13:43 (nine years ago) link
― begs the question, when is enough enough (Euler), Friday, 5 March 2010 19:53 (4 months ago)
― surfer blood for oil (Hurting 2), Friday, 9 July 2010 13:52 (nine years ago) link
yeah, Meditations. I put it on one Sunday morning, knowing little about Coltrane; halfway through the first song I was screaming and in tears
Stubbed your toe on the way back from the CD player?
― Oracle Crackers (Tom D.), Friday, 9 July 2010 13:54 (nine years ago) link
i haven't made it to those later-period live recordings (like LIve in Japan) yet ... the recording quality is good? is it radio broadcasts or something?
― tylerw, Friday, 9 July 2010 14:55 (nine years ago) link
Live In Japan quality is v. good
― Oracle Crackers (Tom D.), Friday, 9 July 2010 14:56 (nine years ago) link
meditations is basically the best record ever made by humans on earth
― FRIDGED WAG MANPAIN syndrome (zorn_bond.mp3), Wednesday, 18 August 2010 09:17 (eight years ago) link
the cover for the Ed Kelly record is great
― Scam jam, thank you ma’am (Sparkle Motion), Thursday, 30 August 2018 00:17 (ten months ago) link
oh and Pharoah is also credited as "Mystery Guest" on Larry Young's Lawrence of Newark
― Scam jam, thank you ma’am (Sparkle Motion), Thursday, 30 August 2018 00:19 (ten months ago) link
― change display name (Jordan), Thursday, 30 August 2018 00:45 (ten months ago) link
I love all the pseudonyms that jazz guys used. Charlie Parker used Charlie Chan, Cannonball Adderley used Buckshot LeFonque. . . there's lots of them.
― outside, you're never alone. (Austin), Thursday, 30 August 2018 00:54 (ten months ago) link
omg who remembers Branford Marsalis's project Buckshot LeFonque? That hadn't popped into my mind for maybe two decades?
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Thursday, 30 August 2018 07:05 (ten months ago) link
Preemo AND Buckethead, lol
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Thursday, 30 August 2018 07:07 (ten months ago) link
Olé and Africa/Brass are my favourite Coltrane albums. His discography's so vast though, and I've only started exploring it a few years ago.
― willem, Thursday, 30 August 2018 07:23 (ten months ago) link
I did not know about the key changes in Giant Steps, well explained in this awkwardly titled video from Vox:
― niels, Monday, 26 November 2018 14:45 (seven months ago) link
Adam Neely is a Coltrane obsessive. He did this video a while back and it blew my mind:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J98jwtm5U4E
― Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Monday, 26 November 2018 16:47 (seven months ago) link
Adam is really smart. I took some lessons from him for a little while a few years ago and loved talking to him.
― Gottseidank, es ist Blecch Freitag (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 26 November 2018 16:49 (seven months ago) link
Poor Tommy Flanagan. I thought they should have mentioned that he played Giant Steps on every gig he could after that, just so people would know he got it together (or at least I remember hearing that anecdotally).
Great video otherwise.
― change display name (Jordan), Monday, 26 November 2018 16:51 (seven months ago) link
Feel like “most” “serious” fans have gotten beyond that, but maybe that is just wishful thinking. By the time I was seeing him I don’t recall him playing “Giant Steps” and don’t really remember too many people bringing it up in conversation.
― Gottseidank, es ist Blecch Freitag (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 26 November 2018 17:22 (seven months ago) link
This new 1963 box set Impulse is putting out seems like kind of a ripoff to me - it's the tracks from that "lost album" they just released, with John Coltrane and Johnny Hartman, Live at Birdland, and I think some other previously released stuff tacked on.
― grawlix (unperson), Monday, 26 November 2018 17:29 (seven months ago) link
Ah, good to know, James.
― change display name (Jordan), Monday, 26 November 2018 17:33 (seven months ago) link
I’ve been geeking out to his solo on But Not for Me from My Favorite Things lately. He does stuff in there that already sounds like “late” Coltrane
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 14:46 (six months ago) link
Urrr, brainfart, I meant Summertime, not But Not For Me
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 17:21 (six months ago) link
semi kicking myself for not picking up whichever European tour was £15 in FOPP.Did get Village Vanguard though just realising that I probably had most of it since i still have most of teh box set somewhere.Want to pick up most of his Impulse lps and probably a few of teh Atlantic ones.
Also should have grabbed Pharoah Sanders' Elevation when I saw it in Honest Johns.
Do love Afro Blue Impressions since chancing on it on vinyl in Belfast 28 years ago & I assume the European tour material is going to be pretty similar.
― Stevolende, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 17:49 (six months ago) link
& I assume the European tour material is going to be pretty similar.
It mostly is, but the first disc-and-a-half is with Eric Dolphy. I haven't checked, but I wouldn't be surprised if you could find just the Coltrane/Dolphy live European stuff as a standalone disc.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 18:09 (six months ago) link
(sorry, to clarify: the first disc-and-a-half of the Live Trane: The European Tours box)
Man, Interstellar Space is really peak music
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 17 January 2019 16:34 (six months ago) link
listening to that prestige '58 box .. it's often quite familiar stuff, but still so good.
― calzino, Thursday, 11 April 2019 15:23 (three months ago) link
Kenny Burrell, Donald Byrd, Paul Chambers, Jimm Cobb, Tommy Flanagan, Red Garland, Louis Hayes, Freddie Hubbard - literally fucking top notch '58 combos!
― calzino, Thursday, 11 April 2019 15:29 (three months ago) link
Coltrane w Kenny Burrell was one of my first jazz records and I love it so much
It's sort of interesting in jazz how since these guys all did so many sessions in short periods of time, it can be sort of arbitrary which one you wind up starting with and that one often becomes a favorite.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 11 April 2019 18:23 (three months ago) link