Gay prog - does it exist?

http://hiphop-n-more.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/kanye-album-cover-1.png

Not prog, but the guy from Goblin, so related to prog:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq5F1sQkImM

I would have put "gay prog", "female prog" and "centre-left prog" in the same basket, i.e. virtually non-existent

Don't see how 2112 fits. Some have suggest Jobriath's early band Pidgeon (but prolly more psych than prog...or so I hear...not sure I'd have the stomach for it). Magma was another suggestion. Don't buy it either.

He Poos Clouds maybe?

suggestED

Well, I didn't say Magma were 'gay', but just not so overly hetero as other prog bands. Will think on it.

http://26.media.tumblr.com/aHyNHMV3lpm8cdqzMiYuk1xZo1_500.jpg

I don't think J0rdan S. knows what prog is

I dunno, that Kanye album channels core prog principles w/o the keyboard solos.

looking to start a band, KJB?

Queen?

gay how? actual lyrical subject matter? or just gay musicians? or what? most prog seems pretty "gay" in a way (at least the stuff I like).

xpp

real prog men wouldn't know that Johnny because they'd never touch a Kanye record // even if he was to say, sample King Crimson

just the musicians wk

Is that Joe Zawinul? I don't know if he was gay or not, but I do know he wasn't prog.

I would have put "gay prog", "female prog" and "centre-left prog" in the same basket, i.e. virtually non-existent.

There are plenty of female-fronted prog bands. For centre-left (or even just left) prog, see Henry Cow.

Sparks?

I mean, not really prog and not really gay (I think). But it's the gayproggiest thing i can think of.

Yer man on the right there, also an evil fuck from all accounts

http://www.classicrockmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/The-Enid-2.jpg

While I wouldn't say prog itself is "gay", prog surely has a lot of "gay" elements.

okay i need to hear what the dirt is on Godfrey.

at least one of the members of IQ - Tim Esau I think - was gay.

Actually.... prog is probably more androgynous than gay. Prog is a very intellectual kind of music and the entire intellectual culture is more androgynous. Not stereotypically male as in fast cars, girls with big boobs and lots of energy and rock'n'roll riffs, but not really "gay" either. Just typically intellectually androgynous.

yeah, speaking as an intellectual i personally haven't knocked one out in over 5 years

geir bomb

Just typically intellectually androgynous.

In other words, women + gays not allowed

Well, I didn't say Magma were 'gay', but just not so overly hetero as other prog bands. Will think on it.

I suppose they are camp in a Laibach - look at us, we are very intense + serious + also slight militaristic + butch - sorta way

Prog is a very intellectual kind of music

Yeah, you see, I think this is exactly why KJB thinks there isn't any gay prog, because it's the preserve of straight male nerds who need their music to be 'intellectual'. But the more I think about it the more I think he's probably wrong. I think it's only the 'I put on my robe and wizard hat' English AD&D playing prog that's like this, and there's a bunch of other stuff out there that's as omnisexual as anything else.

Though I'm probably still drunk from staying up way too late last night talking about this.

(Also, that Easy Going track I posted really is great - you should all listen to it,)

Yeah, I can't reconcile Emerson Lake & Palmer with this idea of sexually-repressed intellectual nerds.

Oh, and one more thing - total lol at Henry Cow being described as 'centre-left'.

Tarkus is pretty sexy, you know.

This is what you get if you google search "Gay Tarkus": http://artcloud.com/works/dbermangallery_Faith-Gay_Tarkus

Yeah, you see, I think this is exactly why KJB thinks there isn't any gay prog, because it's the preserve of straight male nerds who need their music to be 'intellectual'.

If all gay people are supposed to be disco dancers, then I see that as a very typical stereotype, only a stereotype that is not only widespread among heterosexuals, but perhaps just as much within gay people.

How do you jump from 'not a straight male D&D playing nerd' to 'must be a disco dancer, then'?

it's the preserve of straight male nerds who need their music to be 'intellectual'.

Compare with modern classical composers, who are a pretty intellectual lot by and large, no shortage of teh gayz there

Another one that probably doesn't count - Silmaril. Not really prog but psych-folk, mind you. I think I just associate them in my head with prog because of the Tolkein thing.

Also, not necessarily gay but transgender: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dee_Palmer

Compare with modern classical composers, who are a pretty intellectual lot by and large, no shortage of teh gayz there

Pretty sure there were a lot of gay composers in the good old classical days too. Only it was more of a taboo back then. The ones from the 17th and 18th century sure looked very feminine, although that had just as much to do with trends and fashions among posh people back then of course.

I had high expectations when I clicked on "Gay prog - does it exist? [...] last updated Monday, July 18, 2011 9:56 AM by Hongroe (Geir Hongro)" and still they managed to be exceeded

just the musicians

That's definitely not what I had in mind for this thread. I'm looking for prog that sounds like a snort of poppers, like a chant of "butch queen up in pumps." Doesn't matter if the musicians are gay or not. Sparks is an excellent suggestion! Prolly the closest we'll come unless Jobriath solo counts.

If all gay people are supposed to be disco dancers

Would it were so...

And lookie what a search for "Robert John Godfrey" + "gay" turned up - another thread on gay prog!

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6610

See, I'm interested in all aspects of the question, really - musically, in terms of subject matter, and yeah, personally as well. Not entirely sure we're likely to come to any conclusions about, well, anything really, but I find it interesting.

Well yeah I guess I'd be mildly interested to discover some progger is gay. But waaaaay more interested in prog that's suitable for bathhouses.

Mexican prog group MCC, were fronted by a openly gay singer, and some of their songs had gay themes ("Angel de Sodoma").

http://ritornomiracolo.blogspot.com/2009/10/rock-mexicano-m-c-c.html

not really prog i guess but i once watched a gay porn flick from the '70s that used "one of these days" by pink floyd in the soundtrack. it was pretty intense!

Joe Z. may fall under not really prog and not really gay, but the phallic use of his instrument in the photo made me think it might get us on the right track.

There was definitely some glam/prog crossover going on in the '70s, along the lines of Sparks (who weren't all really that prog -- not as prog as Queen to my ears), but maybe more so. Pavlov's Dog? Mr. Big (the mid '70s band on Arista, not the later hair metal one)? Esperanto? Sailor? Zolar X? Skyhooks? And Roxy Music certainly had their swishy and proggy moments, right? But if Queen aren't the best example of this, I'm not really sure why.

That's definitely not what I had in mind for this thread. I'm looking for prog that sounds like a snort of poppers, like a chant of "butch queen up in pumps." Doesn't matter if the musicians are gay or not.

Ah, well in that case, what about Gong? Gentle Giant? Some of the German Bands like Amon Duul 2 and Can started getting more glammed out in the late '70s and doing disco-y stuff.

Yeah, there was certainly prog/Eurodisco crossover, too. In fact, it's pretty obvious that prog helped inspire some of those longer Eurodisco suites (and some of the Chicago house guys were prog fans, too.)

Also, if we're talking real life biography, Doug Pinnick from King's X has long been of the closet, right?

And Mountains Come Out Of The Sky: The Illustrated History Of Prog Rock lists Bowie's Low as the 236th best prog album of all time in the appendix in the back. (Not sure where Camel, Caravan, Happy The Man, etc., fit into all of this.)

And Hello People? (Or is mime-rock not gay and/or prog enough?)

And hell, Peter Gabriel used to dress up as a flower on stage back in Foxtrot days! How straight is that??

*sigh*

No point trying to change the minds of people who have decided that all white music = straight. This in spite of the fact that the most homophobic genres in existence are hip-hop and dancehall reggae, at least judging from lyrical content and quotes from the actual musicians.

I mean I know that doesn't mean every prog musician's a tory but

Ah, so he is. I guess Zappa was a libertarian, right? Obv Wyatt and the whole RIO movement were/are hard-left.

Rush have been kind of centre-left since 81 or so, haven't they? Actually, there was a VH-1 interview where Peart not only acknowledged that he was being a bit naive about global capitalism when he wrote "2112" but that he was inspired to make that statement out of frustration with all the pressure from the record company to make more accessible music after Career of Steel, of feeling like his individualism was being repressed by big business. All I could do was go "Uh..."

Can Styx be gay prog if Styx themselves are not gay?

yes!

I don't know anything about Magma's politics, though.

Vander has been pretty convincingly outed as a Nazi

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64446&PN=1

This smells like some huge bullsh*t.

whatever. I didn't want to believe it, but the evidence is pretty damning.

Nazis are generally big into jazz, yeah.

I always think of Throbbing Gristle as a sort of malfunctioning prog band—in a way the Last Prog Band—so I dunno, by extension I consider Coil a prog band too.

"Astral Disaster" is pretty proggy in vibe!

Nazis are generally big into jazz, yeah.

yeah, and non-nazis generally put swastikas, albert speer buildings and Goebbels quotes on their album artwork?

I mean, Vander is clearly a weird, conflicted guy. His wife is Jewish as were various band members. But I think it's also pretty clear that he has a unhealthy fascination with Hitler that goes beyond the simple "ooh we're so dark" punk rock shock tactics that I originally thought Magma was all about.

I don't really see anything at that link that goes beyond hearsay, mostly from one disgruntled ex-band member.

I don't really see why the guy would lie. And it's been a while since I read all of the comments and everything, but I think there were stories from a couple of former band members, and fans who had interactions with Vander. Plus I kind of trust that Daevid Allen isn't lying about Vander having nazi flags and hitler pictures up in his apartment.

And then there's the swastikas on the cover of the first album, and the picture of the Speer stadium design on this cover http://www.progarchives.com/progressive_rock_discography_covers/646/cover_42117992009.jpg

And this rough translation from an interview in 1970 "It is really inconceivable that on one side we have evolved and they have remained like primates requesting for funds to eat, just like the black Africans. We tried to help by building everything they needed, sent doctors, industrialists, in short EVERYTHING, and now they refuse civilization."

Here's the full quote

"SW: And what do you think of hippies?
CV: Nothing good because they did not create. These are primitives who unfortunately contribute nothing to world and its evolution. I prefer the scientists, people who research, construct. It's even fun that there are people who think that India is the most advanced people of our planet, so advanced that they all die of hunger there ... They are forced to ask the money to survive, now that´s really an advanced people for me, there is no problem ...

SW: Yes, and people continue to place this civilization over all others without a second of thinking about their problems.
CV: They are wise, so wise that they lie in the street because they are tired and weak and they are starving ... for me that is really a nation of degenerated people which has contributed nothing to science, and deteriorate more and more until one day, sick and dying, they will disappear from the surface of the Earth. It is really inconceivable that on one side we have evolved and they have remained like primates requesting for funds to eat, just like the black Africans. We tried to help by building everything they needed, sent doctors, industrialists, in short EVERYTHING, and now they refuse civilization."

Wakeman's a tory.

Apparently is, but I think the entire Straws were, more or less.

(in spite of making a song about being in trade unions and all)

Excuse me, I had a beer and I did not read this thread. But. I was just at a bar that was playing a New York Dolls film and they looked kind of queerish to me. And that's not prog is it? I thought they were punk but it seemed pretty glam also. What gives?

it's the old mistake of thinking that yr experience of art lies solely inside the art instead of hanging somewhere between you and what you listen to - queerness, any interpretation, isn't about deciphering what's out there; it's a way of listening/perceiving.

(promising myself that's the last time i will state the obvious)

ok, yeah that is pretty obv but what i want to know is if they were queer or not. them, not me. me, i'm not so sure.

And then there's the swastikas on the cover of the first album

um, yes. but this swastika is also being crushed by a giant dinosaur creature.

Plus I kind of trust that Daevid Allen isn't lying about Vander having nazi flags and hitler pictures up in his apartment

Must have led to some awkward conversations when Stella's parents came over for tea

what about Gong? Gentle Giant? Some of the German Bands like Amon Duul 2 and Can started getting more glammed out in the late '70s and doing disco-y stuff.

Which albums/moments of theirs are most glammed/discoed out?

And yes, Queen absolutely count. And duh, of course, Roxy Music. Totally forgot about them.

Off to city hall to legally change my middle name to "Romantic Themes."

*restrains self from correcting Hongro*

Which albums/moments of theirs are most glammed/discoed out?

Well, Can had a disco hit "I Want More", plus the reprise ".........And More" on their album Flow Motion. Their album Landed has a vaguely Roxy Music feel to it too. The songs Sunday Jam and Aspectacle are pretty disco-y as well.

But then disco itself has pretty strong roots in progressive rock. David Mancuso was basically a hippie dude who played a lot of progressive rock and fusion types of records at the Loft (like Henri Texier, Babe Ruth, etc)

And lots of the later 70s ADII albums had kind of a roxy music or disco influence.

plus if you're counting glam and roxy music, then there's a whole huge crossover between prog and glam. Wizzard, Eno solo, some Todd Rundgren (plus the Hall and Oates album he produced), etc

hmmmm....the magma/vander nazi stuff itt is bumming me out

wrt to Peart:

in Roadshow With Drums, his recent book, he definitely goes out of his way to criticize fox news and the bush administration

Yeah, there were some blatantly anti-Republican lyrics on Snakes and Arrows:
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/rush/thewaythewindblows.html

Hasn't he been a bit of an environmentalist for a while? "Natural Science" seems both environmentalist and at least anti-commercialism in the arts. "Nobody's Hero" was obviously anti-homophobia, even if it was crap. Afaik, they've never really taken any hard stance on Canadian politics, which may have been to their benefit.

I mean, the strongest consistent stance through their lyrics seems to be atheism, beyond just a general belief in the individual, which could swing in a right or a left direction.

Afaik, they've never really taken any hard stance on Canadian politics

Apart from "The Trees".

The Christian Vander=nazi stuff is best forgotten about I think, I would guess he was into the iron discipline, megalomania and hell, the uniforms. Doubt if he was really into the idea of genocide tbh.

Anyway back to the question, here's a picture of Omega for you all

http://retronom.hu/files/images/kepek/eredeti/91/1978_Omega_lemez.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4vmlB7L6mQ

The Christian Vander=nazi stuff is best forgotten about I think, I would guess he was into the iron discipline, megalomania and hell, the uniforms. Doubt if he was really into the idea of genocide tbh.

Well yeah, he presumably thinks that the genocide didn't really happen. But at any rate, even if he isn't an anti-semite I think it's fair to say that he's right wing.

Apart from "The Trees"

Ha, fair point, an explicit anti-maple manifesto.

Seriously, what I meant was that while Rush has definitely recorded many songs with broad philosophical/political messages, or even songs about particular issues, they've never recorded anything that seems to be a direct comment on something that was actually going on in politics in Canada at the time. For example, I don't think they've ever publicly voiced any clear opinions in favour of one party or another or spoken out against a particular government policy, even in the way that "The Way the Wind Blows" seems like a direct comment on the Bush administration. (I'd honestly be hard-pressed to even guess which way they voted.)

http://www.progarchives.com/progressive_rock_discography_covers/321/cover_4158112832017_r.jpg

i don't know. i guess there's this band, who are a kind of prog rock/italo cross. named after the henry cow song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1Q7Wj8IQTQ

xpost "Diamond Song" is good!

yes but it's not on that album

nothing on that album is good

and that's coming from me, ILX's #1 Starcastle fan

also, that cover is straight as hell!!!

Coil mentioned upthread but their alumnus Thighpaulsandra should have probably had all his album covers posted here already - he is p much Queen Prog

Also, arguably one of the best exponents of this has posted to this thread!

Geir?

well anyway furry prog is better than gay prog (see: the complete works of bob drake)

cover of "reel to real" looks like they're trying to out-"love beach" "love beach", and the cover of "love beach" is definitely not gay. the guy wearing the tiny little sailor shirt just comes across as regrettable, not really any more "gay" than that fireballet album cover is "trans"

O yeah Bob Drake is the nicest guy and a sterling representative for furkind

omg how did we not mention Yamantaka // Sonic Titan yet

Actually.... prog is probably more androgynous than gay. Prog is a very intellectual kind of music and the entire intellectual culture is more androgynous. Not stereotypically male as in fast cars, girls with big boobs and lots of energy and rock'n'roll riffs, but not really "gay" either. Just typically intellectually androgynous.

― Hongroe (Geir Hongro), Monday, 18 July 2011 08:28 (six years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Even though I'm not even sure it's him, classic Geir.

the new Rhododendron :)