With all this talk about prog and epics maybe it's time there was a GENTLE GIANT ALBUMS POLL

Judging GG's prog credentials by the first album is not fair given just how Crimson King it was, cover art and everything. They hadn't even got started back then. Octopus, Glass House, Power & the Glory and Interview are unlike anything else (and in some respects unlike one another).

yeah I'll have to give those a shot - i've been interested in picking up Octopus for a while, but never got around to it

Loving this today :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJYe9EFFeec

That song is incredible. Thank christ GG didn't feel the need to stretch it out to 17 minutes just for the sake of posturing.

despite being a huge 70's english prog fan I still don't know these albums very well at all. need to listen some more.

i think you guys are right. it wasn't fair to judge them by their first album. i really like this band called Echolyn now and apparently they sound a lot like Gentle Giant. I'll report back.

yep. GG are indeed a great band. I stand behind my comments on the first album, it's kind of awkwardly proggish and doesn't rock out as much as it should but compared to other awkward early prog like Time and a Word or Trespass it actually holds up quite well. Acquiring the Taste is a real gem, took me a while to really get it but it definitely grew on me. Side 2 of Three Friends is ace. And Octopus may be one of the coolest 70's prog albums I own, they just went completely into their odd hyper-complex-but-not-really-flashy aesthetic. I totally get why they never made it big but I find myself wanting to hear them more than any prog band outside of Van der Graaf Generator (and Echolyn, who totally rule)

I think "Raconteur Troubadour" might be the best song I've heard this year. I always find it annoying but ultimately funny that I often love things for the reason some people hate them; in this case on another GG thread, someone complained about his voice, but I think the way he raises and lowers his voice in that song is just genius and immensely satisfying. In fact I think that is the closest to Field Music I've found any older band (Field Music are always compared to 70s bands).

It taken me a very long time to get around to GG, only got Octopus so far.

ha, never thought of the Field Music comparison. it makes sense though. they're both very economical and keep the songs and albums short, both have more going on under the surface than meets the eye. currently "Three Friends" is blowing my head off, all those incredible interlocking bits, especially on "Peel the Paint" and "Mister Class & Quality?". very mathematical, and I mean that in a good way. And yes "Raconteur" is excellent. Nothing in my library is anything like it (other than maybe "Isn't it Quiet and Cold?" off the first LP). Maybe the song that convinced me to keep up with the guys in the first place.

Anyone got any advice about the box sets? I Lost My Head is a collection of their final albums but Memories Of Old Days, Under Construction and Scraping The Barrel all seem to be collections of unreleased tracks, live versions, demos, rehearsals and variants.
Are the latter 3 collections just for crazy fans and is there overlapping contents between them.

I still think "Raconteur Troubadour" is total genius.

Been listening to In A Glass House. "Experience" is wonderful when that loud part kicks in. Love that guy shouting "GO!" at the start of "Way Of Life"

Some people are saying Memories Of Old Days is mostly made of the previous live albums and rarities compilations. If this is a "best of" selection of those previous collections, I might want it, because Scraping The Barrel looks a bit too collectory extreme for me.

I hate to ask, because the answer may cost me money, but what was wrong with the CD releases of Free Hand and Octopus?

I don't know anything about that.

Further research on Scraping The Barrel tells me that the third disc is dedicated to old bands and obscure solo stuff and new tracks recorded for the collection called "Moog Fugue", "Home Again" and "Move Over".

Did they have b-sides and if so, are they collected? I'm not familiar enough with the track names.

All Chryshalis era b-sides collected with the studio albums on I Lost My Head. The only exclusive track from earlier singles is "Power And The Glory" which is only on some editions of the album of the same name.
This sounds crazy but Wikipedia said (the link for the source wasn't there) there was possibly going to be an animated film based on Power And The Glory!

Wow! Steve Wilson Power And The Glory mix coming out next month with animated videos disc!

Glad I waited to buy this.

I've never owned a 5.1 cd, do they sound fine on a regular CD player with headphones? I read that there is possible damage for incompatible speakers. Please help.

Still dipping my toes into their catalog. Some thoughts about what I've investigated lately:

The Power and The Glory - via Steven Wilson's remaster. I really like this one, right now its neck and neck with Octopus for my favorite GG record.
Free Hand - via Spotify. I liked this one a lot more than I thought I would, it's a nice and easy transition into the art-pop they'd become.
Giant for A Day - via used CD. This is, um, pretty bad. I can see why wiki notes it as the lowest point in the band's career. "It's Only Goodbye" perks things up at the end and shows a brief glimpse of the instrumental prowess they once had, but I found most of it to be really tepid pop. Is there any point in checking out Civilian after this?

Watched the Power And The Glory dvd. It isn't really an animated film or animated series of music videos. It's like the motion graphic displays on tv news. All the graphics do is make clearer the political meaning of the lyrics but that could have been done better on sleeve booklet art.
Why did they want to do this so long? It seems too modest for something a band wanted to do for so many years.

That remaster is great. There were a few things that bothered me about the initial mix, particularly on "The Face" but it seems like SW took care of that. What a terrific album that is, I can't decide if I like the first or second side better. I get all the love for Octopus in this poll but man, so many of their albums are just perfect. My only complaint with Gentle Giant is that they don't just kick out the jams often enough, cuz when they do they really smoke - thinking mostly of the chorus of "Advent of Panruge" and "In a Glass House" here, any time they bring the tempo up they absolutely rule. That said, those few moments of catharsis on their albums are very much worth the wait

Like the dualing vocal lines constantly overriding each other in "No God's a Man", I can listen to that all day long.

Definitely yes to the previous post. I wish they did more of the overlapping vocals.

Finished listening to Power And The Glory and I was glad to wash away the imagery of the dvd presentations and build my own imagery from the sounds.
A lot of albums get falsely called concept albums but this clearly is. About power corrupting people.
Great to have the b-side bonus track there, it's pretty fun.
The guy with the higher voice sings so beautifully on tracks 2 & 3.

I read in the sleeve that in "The Face" Ray shouts in dismay after making a mistake on the violin, they found it so funny that they kept it in the recording. I couldn't hear it, I always listened out for it but I couldn't remember which track it was supposed to be on.

It's clearly far more albumy than Octopus and In A Glass House but I still prefer the latter two for having such great standout tracks.

I've got Acquiring The Taste, so that'll be next.

I really dislike the singing in this band, the oldest Shulman brother (Phil?) was the only one with a passable voice and I think he left after 'Octopus'?

I definitely like the singers. Don't know who is who but the vocals in "Raconteur, Troubadour" are something so brilliant I wish they had expanded on that approach extensively and the bellowing on "Experience" is very satisfying.

I feel like Frogbs in that the band maybe didn't play to their strengths often enough. I've only heard three albums but I don't think they are in the top drawer of prog but they probably had the potential.

the vocals in "Raconteur, Troubadour"

That's Phil Shulman

It's a pain that the newest reissue of Three Friends uses the cover art of the first album.

Yeah I think the singing is generally kind of unremarkable considering the sort of singers other prog groups were working with - Jon Anderson, Peter Gabriel, Peter Hammill, Greg Lake even...all dudes full of personality, all the GG guys really do is hit all the notes, but that in itself is impressive considering how crazy some of their arrangements are. The lyrics and the concepts of their albums feel kind of secondary in that regard.

Free Hand is currently a favorite of mine, lots of great moments there, I know this is such a minor bit but that gentle harpsichord in "His Last Voyage" that sounds like it's coming from 1000 feet away really gives me chills. I love how "Just the Same" was their idea of a single (crazy that it was never released as one!) - I think it could've gotten radio play...in 1972.

How the hell did Octopus walk this? 3 out of 8 of the tracks are terrible!

Then again to me they were hardly the most consistent band but hardly any of the 70s prog bands were. In a Glass House is probably my favourite.

And I know they're not considered top-tier prog but I always feel like they should be. I like how tidy and concise their songs were compared to a lot of their contemporaries.

Over time they've begun to get that sort of top-tier status, haven't they? Their first 7 albums are all bolded on RYM (along with Playing the Fool)

As a teenager my 'holy trinity' of prog groups was Genesis, King Crimson, and Yes. Now it's Gentle Giant, Van der Graaf Generator, and Magma. But all of these bands were amazing.

Octopus took this home because of Knots, and because the various Octopus suites they performed live are generally some of their best stuff.

I'd agree with you there, the Playing The Fool version of Octopus is amazing (partly because it misses out A Dog's Life and that maudlin ballad I forget the name of)

Just got the cheapest copy I could find of the I Lost My Head compilation. Somehow it really shot up in price, so you might want to grab it now.

I really like Octopus and have meant to pick up the 1st 2 BGO 2fers. Jhough that means getting another dupli2te of it. I have the Repertoire remaster which sounds great.

Keep seeing mention of concision which I guess is true in terms of no epics. But have found that one of Octopus's schticks is breaking up riffs between as many instruments as possible. You get a pretty catchy riff coming in played on one instrument which most other bands would stick with but here it gets taken over by another instrument playing pretty much the same thing.

I heard a few years ago that some mod discos had started bunging on tracks by GG. I assume from the 1st couple lps but didn't get more detailed info. Presumably somebody following Simon Dupree and the Big Sound forward.

I need to finish off reading Rabelais Pantegruel and Gargantua which I started a few years back. Not sure if it was directly cos of references in GG but it's quite funny if you can get into 17th century writing anyway.

the "breaking up riffs between instruments" is very prominent in "the house, the street, the room", where there's this very long section where they do nothing but that for a minute straight. then gary green comes in with his robin trower guitar solo. the guitar solos in gentle giant are so weird because they're all just straight up RAWK and in direct opposition to everything else they do.

yeah he was such a godsend to this band sometimes. who knows if they would've pulled their heads out of their asses otherwise. anyway I've come to realize that the live album Playing the Fool is in fact, one of the greatest live classic prog albums ever. just so thrilling from start to finish. god that whole stretch from Aquiring the Taste to Free Hand is so good. not sure if I want to continue and get their last three albums but I guess I could be talked into it.

They are the most significant precursor to the discipline era Crimson IMO

i like "civilian" a lot better than i do "the missing piece" and "giant for a day". no prog in it, but it's very good aor, and relentlessly negative and sarcastic all the way through.

civilian and three friends are the only two albums i can't even name a song from. nothing against them, they just never stuck in my head.

the missing piece is great when it's great. as old as you're young is practically a masterpiece as their 4/4 pop efforts go.

I was a toddler when these guys stopped playing, but I would have loved to see Gentle Giant live. All of their records are hit and miss for me, but every live clip I've ever seen has been extraordinary.

The musicianship! The multi-instrumentation! The silly faces! Crazy good live band. Tbh I think I'd rather see Gary Green's "Three Friends" band than the current touring incarnations of Yes or King Crimson

ok I finally caved and bought The Missing Piece. it's kinda funny the way this album is structured, the first side is them rather boldly proclaiming a new style, while the second is "we sure miss the way we used to be". I'm enjoying it more than I figured I would - "2 Weeks in Spain" is very catchy and "Memories of Old Days" is really heartwrenching. They even turn into classic GG for the last two songs. Cool beans

it's their duke but without a "turn it on again"

i hate "the missing piece". side b (which was written and toured first) is a half-assed imitation of their prog style, with none of the stuff that made their earlier records "interesting". and their stabs at aor are just awful. "betcha thought we couldn't do it"? dudes you _did_ a reggae number on your previous record and it's twenty times better than that shit.

you hate. that's great

counterbalance: _civilian_ really is a fantastic aor record, and one i would posit as "their duke" (like _duke_ it's a dark, dark record).

'77 is when prog started to panic, loads of strange albums came out around that time

prog panicked earlier. '77 is when the cheapskate record company executives rolled out the new product

EMI!

yeah true

78 was the year of Love Beach and Tormato. At least in 77 you had Going for the One.

yeah one funny thing about ATT is that they almost seem afraid to rock n' roll, as though they'd pigeonholed themselves as this medieval novelty group not unlike Gryphon. 3 Friends grooves a lot more and by Glass House they were doing full-on power riffs

Weathers is the real stand out in those live videos - not only is his ability to play these overly complex parts way more impressive when you can actually see it, he makes these crazy faces the entire time, like he is so ~~in the zone~~ that he almost seems unaware of anything else around him, just totally in outer space.

This is the best live recording I've heard on Youtube. Incredible energy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRT5zYkoUqk

is it just me or might one of those violin counterpoint melodies in "Plain Truth" have been the inspiration for the main Super Mario Bros. melody? I'm talking about the bit that comes in at 1:07. always makes me think of Mario

likely just a coincidence...but Dr. Mario does rip off a chunk of Karn Evil 9 Second Impression. or maybe they both lifted it from the same place? check out 1:29 here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlhp-Qbuk1k

It could have been some subconscious influence seeping through. I would not be surprised if Nintendo composers were/are major prog heads.

That melody is from "St. Thomas" by Sonny Rollins, which itself is based on traditional songs.

yeah...I assumed that was borrowed from somewhere, but I would imagine that the VGM composer (who was born in '57) lifted it from ELP, because ELP is, for some reason, super popular in Japan. Emerson was doing shows there regularly up until his suicide. the chirpiness of the melody in Dr. Mario certainly recalls him

ok I found a cheap copy of Interview so I'm giving it a proper listen. I dunno if it's "as good as Free Hand" but it's definitely the Draft 7.30 to FH's Confield

It's fine, but you can see that maybe they'd gone as far in their prog style as they could. It makes the change they made on The Missing Piece a little more comprehensible.

Interview and The Missing Piece are both on the same disc on the Chrysalis box set and I think the latter is the best of the two. "I'm Turning Around" and "As Old as You're Young" are both particularly great. Just love how "As Old as You're Young" builds in complexity, kind of just want it to keep growing.

imo Interview is "better" in that it pushes their style about as far as it could go, tunes be damned. by The Missing Piece it almost seemed like they were apologizing for going prog. but it's definitely a more listenable album, kind of underrated among the fanbase really. Giant for a Day is the one that really goes south.

But The Missing Piece is still plenty prog, again the complexity of "As Old as You're Young"

How many members stayed playing music because I suspect a band like this couldn't have a reunion because their skills can't just be picked up again to the same level if they stopped playing so long. Is there any examples of virtuosos quit playing then able to pick it up again after long years of absence? I would think that once you get to a certain level it becomes such a part of your identity that it's difficult to put down

the only relevant story I can think of is Phil Collins trying to fill in for the encore on a Musical Box performance and not really being able to do it. he wrote something about being in disbelief at how technical his pars were.

afaik none of the Gentle Giant guys did much after the band broke up. I think John Weathers got some session work but there's not much there. Derek and Phil Schulman don't appear to have a single credit that isn't GG or Simon Dupree. that's pretty remarkable given how great a band they were.

The Shulman brothers went into the business side of music business, of course.

I always wondered if they pitched themselves by saying "well we know a lot about what ~doesn't~ sell"

Lol. Also I think there was a partial reunion called Three Friends with new/session members who did live shows a few years ago.