― jones (actual), Sunday, 4 May 2003 16:44 (twenty years ago) link
I never felt he was doing much with film and it was really lame. the soundtrack kept me awake through it all.
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 5 May 2003 09:16 (twenty years ago) link
DA's films tend to reflect his circumstances and emotional state during production. during his protracted divorce from Daria Nicolodi, he certainly wasn't shy about dishing out onscreen pain and punishment to his ex (and now daughter Asia is in on the act; c.f. Scarlet Diva). the drab Trauma wore the constraints of a troubled, threadbare American production on its sleeve. and i don't know the status of familial relations circa Stendahl, but anything that would bring a father to have his daughter raped repeatedly whilst his camera leered couldn't be too healthy.
i suspect that DA enjoyed making Nonhosonno, as he once again revels in the filmic excesses that mark his most celebrated work. the camera hasn't been so untethered since Tenebre. the violence is meted out (mostly against women and effeminate men, of course) with grand guignol gusto that would have shocked even Fulci, yet it seems, god help us all, more playful than perverse. and all the lurid trappings - garish colors, overacting, Goblin! - are finally back in play. alas, they serve a screenplay that is the flimsiest of assemblages of giallo clichés. even in DA's able hands, it's such an incohesive clutter of nursery rhymes, childhood trauma, revenge, dreams, and fractured-identity psychobabble. still, viewed in the right spirit, it's a fun movie (barring its excessive length and wearying static stretches) - something we haven't been able to say about an Argento film in ages. no doubt, Argento has still got it. he stages one bravura sequence - the unrelenting pursuit of a train-bound victim-to-be - with merciless economy; the payoff to this bravura sequence is as horrifying as the murder that opens Irréversible. if nothing else, Nonhosonno suggests that it may be too early to dismiss the maestro as a has-been.
― summerslastsound (summerslastsound), Monday, 5 May 2003 14:30 (twenty years ago) link
"the camera hasn't been so untethered since Tenebre".
What what what? Did you see Opera?
"the violence is meted out (mostly against women and effeminate men, of course)"
Argento rarely preys on effeminate men. He's bisexual and effeminate himself for goodnessake! His portrayal of gay characters in 'Cat O Nine Tails', 'Four Flies on Grey Velvet' and 'Deep Red' was genuinely ahead of its time.
"with grand guignol gusto that would have shocked even Fulci"
No I would argue with this. I thought 'Sleepless' was the first Argento film where the misogyny was irrelevant to the narrative and it just left me feeling revolted. BUT even so it's a far tamer excercise than Fulci's 'New York Ripper' or his even more reprehensible 'Cat in the Brain'. Though Deodato is much worse than even Fulci when it comes to making misogynistic, 'tear em up' gore movies.
― Calum, Monday, 5 May 2003 16:04 (twenty years ago) link
― summerslastsound (summerslastsound), Monday, 5 May 2003 17:01 (twenty years ago) link
yes, for some reason Terror at the Opera slipped my mind (if we're going to use English titles... at least i was being consistent about it. hmph.) and Argento's half of Two Evil Eyes was spirited as well. but the camerawork has been pretty lackluster since.
>His portrayal of gay characters in 'Cat O Nine Tails', 'Four Flies >on Grey Velvet' and 'Deep Red' was genuinely ahead of its time
as simpering stereotypes and/or fragile, damaged souls. yeah, way ahead of "Will & Grace" or The Birdcage, maybe.
― summerslastsound (summerslastsound), Monday, 5 May 2003 17:09 (twenty years ago) link
Opera was also the original English language title for Terror at the Opera and the title of the current release. Again, you are participating in a thread where you are trying to persuade people to watch Argento films. How are you going to do that when people don't know or can't locate the films you're talking about you dodo?
Stop being such an anorak.
― Calum, Monday, 5 May 2003 17:11 (twenty years ago) link
no you're not!
In this thread we say either classic or dud to argento and give our reasons. more attacking and more defending plz.
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 5 May 2003 17:26 (twenty years ago) link
― slutsky (slutsky), Monday, 5 May 2003 17:35 (twenty years ago) link
― jones (actual), Monday, 5 May 2003 17:53 (twenty years ago) link
And this was never a 'classic or dud' thread.
― Calum, Monday, 5 May 2003 18:04 (twenty years ago) link
― slutsky (slutsky), Monday, 5 May 2003 18:58 (twenty years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Monday, 5 May 2003 19:36 (twenty years ago) link
"simpering stereotypes and/or fragile, damaged souls. yeah, way ahead of "Will & Grace" or The Birdcage, maybe."
Should I presume you'vee not seen 'Cat O Nine Tails' then?
And whilst the detective in Four Flies on Grey Velvet may be considered effete and even 'simpering', he is also brave and presented in a pivotal light to the story.
― Calum, Monday, 5 May 2003 19:43 (twenty years ago) link
― Cozen (Cozen), Monday, 5 May 2003 19:44 (twenty years ago) link
― amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 5 May 2003 21:50 (twenty years ago) link
fine but a lot is going to come down to that. but summer is still making a good arg.
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 5 May 2003 21:51 (twenty years ago) link
― Calum, Monday, 5 May 2003 23:27 (twenty years ago) link
― Andrew L (Andrew L), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 09:09 (twenty years ago) link
― Cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 16:32 (twenty years ago) link
― slutsky (slutsky), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 17:06 (twenty years ago) link
I'll be seeing more, but while I don't dismiss the horror genre's weight out of hand (certainly not prime Cronenberg -- or James Whale), DA's approach doesn't grab me so far.
SPOILER
And while the queer isn't the killer, he certainly gets the juiciest, most dragged-out (so to speak) demise.
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 27 January 2006 20:46 (eighteen years ago) link
Agreed.
Oh Hell yes! Talk about totally unprepared-for. It took me weeks to recover from that, there's a very similar scene in Communion, does anyone recall? That shit me up too.
― mzui (mzui), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 14:21 (eighteen years ago) link
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 15:32 (eighteen years ago) link
I just finished Opera and good lord what a corny, sloppy film!
― queen bey backers (Stevie D(eux)), Friday, 27 December 2013 02:55 (ten years ago) link
I mean the kill scenes were OK enough but the plot had crater-sized holes, several of them, and the way the characters (and the actors) acted generally made no fucking sense. Also, dude gets his eye pecked out and is just like "eh whatever nbd"
― queen bey backers (Stevie D(eux)), Friday, 27 December 2013 02:58 (ten years ago) link
"the plot had crater-sized holes" - welcome to gialli!"the way the characters (and the actors) acted generally made no fucking sense" - welcome to gialli!
But no, I'm kind of ambivalent about Opera myself. I think there are some classic Argento set-pieces in there, but it's not as consistent as it could be. I also remember finding the kill scene soundtracking pretty rubbish, but apparently the soundtrack is by Eno and Simonetti, which should be great...
― emil.y, Saturday, 28 December 2013 01:41 (ten years ago) link
I dreamed I saw Argento's latest and it was, by some miracle, not the worst movie ever made. I think I'll keep that rather than watch the movie itself.
― Alfre, Lord Woodard (Eric H.), Saturday, 28 December 2013 02:13 (ten years ago) link
xp no but I liked "Deep Red" v much and I thought it was much more engaging and interesting and not as awful, same with "Bird with the Crystal Plumage"
― queen bey backers (Stevie D(eux)), Saturday, 28 December 2013 03:58 (ten years ago) link
Hey Eric:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssE_6DmL_dk
― CAROUSEL! CAROUSEL! (Telephone thing), Monday, 30 December 2013 04:47 (ten years ago) link
And Stevie, have you seen Tenebre or Phenomena yet?
― CAROUSEL! CAROUSEL! (Telephone thing), Monday, 30 December 2013 04:48 (ten years ago) link
Oh. My. God.
― Alfre, Lord Woodard (Eric H.), Monday, 30 December 2013 05:04 (ten years ago) link
Rewatched Phenomena the Halloween before last and assigned it a slight downgrade, which was a bummer given it has a [spoiler]-wielding [spoiler] who comes to the rescue in the last minute.
― Alfre, Lord Woodard (Eric H.), Monday, 30 December 2013 05:05 (ten years ago) link
Tenebre, tho, remains a f'n masterpiece.
― Alfre, Lord Woodard (Eric H.), Monday, 30 December 2013 05:06 (ten years ago) link
xps no but this guy I rly like told me to watch both of them so
― queen bey backers (Stevie D(eux)), Monday, 30 December 2013 05:47 (ten years ago) link
General consensus seems to be that OPERA was Argento's last great film, so I wldn't step much further into the wreckage of the last two decades, tho' STENDAHL SYNDROME and SLEEPLESS both have their moments/adherents. But Eric OTM abt Tenebrae.
― Ward Fowler, Monday, 30 December 2013 12:38 (ten years ago) link
There are other good ones, hell, other great ones, but really if you're new to Argento what you want is Suspiria - Profondo Rosso - Tenebrae. Can't fuck with those three.
― emil.y, Monday, 30 December 2013 12:57 (ten years ago) link
Suspiria is the one everyone can love. Tenebre is the one that will let you know if you're all-in on Argento or if you should probably just get out while the getting's good.
― Alfre, Lord Woodard (Eric H.), Monday, 30 December 2013 13:03 (ten years ago) link
I've seen Suspiria, Deep Red, and Bird with the Crystal Plumage (and now Opera)
― queen bey backers (Stevie D(eux)), Monday, 30 December 2013 13:50 (ten years ago) link
Inferno a must-see, too. It's honestly kind of awful, but in between the lost-in-translation weirdness ("cake factory" wtf), bizarre setpieces (the hot dog guy) and sub-Goblin soundtrack, there are brilliant moments like the underwater ballroom and a big gooey chunk of Keith Emerson cheese during the climax:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TchMJe9yCks
It's no Goblin/Simonetti, but it's like a distant cousin of Morricone's "Magic and Ecstasy"...
― CAROUSEL! CAROUSEL! (Telephone thing), Tuesday, 31 December 2013 19:50 (ten years ago) link
IS. Inferno IS a must-see. Movie good, watch with eyes, *grunt*
― CAROUSEL! CAROUSEL! (Telephone thing), Tuesday, 31 December 2013 19:51 (ten years ago) link
I actually love the Emerson score nearly as much as Goblin's for Suspiria.
― Alfre, Lord Woodard (Eric H.), Tuesday, 31 December 2013 19:57 (ten years ago) link
So do i. It's my second favourite Argento film and the OTT synth-prog score definitely heightens the hysterical feel.
― Ramnaresh Samhain (ShariVari), Tuesday, 31 December 2013 20:17 (ten years ago) link
I love the synth oscillations at the first long-shot reveal of the Varelli building early on.
― Alfre, Lord Woodard (Eric H.), Tuesday, 31 December 2013 20:19 (ten years ago) link
I put off sampling Argento this long on the grounds that I'm not a big horror/slasher watcher, but I finally gave Tenebre a whirl at a colleague's urging and, yeah, it's pretty terrific. I'm willing to subscribe to the "dream logic" reading of his films offered upthread; as a plot, the film makes very little sense and is filled with all sorts of "huh?!" moments even if you take it at face value (eg. why does a certain character even carry a fake knife?), so it is best to just read the whole thing as an elaborate and occasionally inexplicable (the doberman--wtf?) nightmare. Comparisons to De Palma are spot on--like "classic era" De Palma, Argento is clearly in love with filmmaking. The famous POV shot outside of the apartment building, for example; it makes no logical sense whatsoever, but it's just absolutely beautiful cinema, you know? Ditto the extended dream sequence on the beach--a lesser filmmaker would have used such a sequence purely for exposition (if they even used it at all), but Argento allows it to exist as this puzzling, erotic and eventually shocking little self-contained moment. A much smaller moment, when a character, leaving a room, pauses to offer a fleeting glance into...the empty room? the camera? the audience? was so startling and unexpected that I couldn't help rewinding the disc and watching the scene twice more.
So, what should be next? Deep Red? Suspiria? The Bird with the Crystal Plumage?
― Inside Lewellyn Sinclair (cryptosicko), Tuesday, 1 April 2014 17:33 (ten years ago) link
Deep Red is incredible
― christmas candy bar (al leong), Tuesday, 1 April 2014 17:35 (ten years ago) link
Deep Red is yr classic giallo. Suspiria and Inferno are more dreamlike. Watch them all!
― Yuri Bashment (ShariVari), Tuesday, 1 April 2014 18:15 (ten years ago) link
And then eventually enjoy Opera, which is sort of the most crowd-pleasing synthesis of them all and undoubtedly the last great movie he made.
― Eric H., Tuesday, 1 April 2014 18:24 (ten years ago) link
> So, what should be next? Deep Red? Suspiria? The Bird with the Crystal Plumage?
yes. all of those. they are probably Bird, Red, Suspiria in order of gore, with Suspiria being the bloodiest.
― koogs, Tuesday, 1 April 2014 18:58 (ten years ago) link
A friend of mine got Argento to sign her ass and she got it tattooed:
https://scontent-b-vie.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t1.0-9/q73/s480x480/10322816_1502965846600077_5402545247248236674_n.jpg
― goth colouring book (anagram), Thursday, 26 June 2014 20:56 (nine years ago) link
any one else prefers inferno over suspiria? i like how it jettisons plot and central character in favor of people just wandering around brightly colored sets and getting brutally murdered.
― nauru, Saturday, 13 September 2014 18:23 (nine years ago) link
Difficult. Score obviously strong argument for Suspiria. In terms of setting Suspiria's Schwarzwald/Hofbräuhaus/Königsplatz/Munich backdrop also has a clear advantage over the rather nondescript location of the house (was it Rome?) in Inferno, even considering the beautiful underwater scene in the latter. But iirc the showdown in Inferno is a rather hilariously bonkers and unexpectedly arriving letdown compared to the just dull letdown of a finish of Suspiria and the story up to this point has lost all coherence anyway and is more Horror Jazz than actual narrative, so yeah: Inferno.
― the european nikon is here (grauschleier), Tuesday, 16 September 2014 20:31 (nine years ago) link
It's NYC in Inferno- there's even a scene set (allegedly, anyway) in Central Park. Probably shot in Rome, of course, Cinecitta or somewhere.
― You guys are caterpillar (Telephone thing), Wednesday, 17 September 2014 03:13 (nine years ago) link
it was actually filmed on location, mario bava did some special effects for that scene.
― nauru, Wednesday, 17 September 2014 16:39 (nine years ago) link
Inferno is prob the more effective movie overall - it really sustains that dreamlike mood throughout - while the last third of Suspiria is a bit baggy. But the opening twenty minutes or so of Suspiria has to be Argento's greatest work, a hysterical symphony of colour, music, performance, editing, decor, all of it pitched at maximum intensity.
For many years the cat-eating-rat shot in Inferno was censored, one of the BBFC's dumber animal cruelty cuts.
― sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Thursday, 18 September 2014 07:42 (nine years ago) link
Just finished Tenebrae per Telephone Thing's recommendation.
All the things I picked apart Opera for up thread also ring true here but the difference is that Opera was a really boring film and Tenebrae was not.
I really do hate the dubbed dialogue, though. Like soooo much.
― rad het chilly poppers (Stevie D(eux)), Monday, 29 September 2014 03:54 (nine years ago) link
though "Turn it DOWN!!! RRGGHHHH *HUFF* *HUFF*" was p wonderful
― rad het chilly poppers (Stevie D(eux)), Monday, 29 September 2014 03:56 (nine years ago) link
Just a heads up: a very limited edition blu-ray of a restored Suspiria is up for preorder as of today, and if the response is any indicator it won't be available for long (as I keep learning the hard way with these limited edition releases). It looks pretty fantastic (screenshots behind the link):
http://synapse-films.com/news/suspiria-comparison-pictures/
― Always Be Cropdusting (Old Lunch), Saturday, 26 August 2017 01:52 (six years ago) link
^ region 1
― koogs, Saturday, 26 August 2017 05:00 (six years ago) link
I’ve been working my way through Argento, have seen Deep Red, Suspiria, Inferno, and Tenebrae so far. Suspiria is my favorite, but I only watched it after seeing Guadagnino’s version, which I also really loved, even more I think. They are related but are very different films
― Dan S, Sunday, 23 February 2020 02:12 (four years ago) link
Deep Red was so great. Tenebrae kept me up at night.
i'm loving digging through these now
― Neanderthal, Monday, 14 September 2020 04:16 (three years ago) link
Deep Red just really makes me appreciate how good his visuals are. the entire scene of chiseling open the hidden window at the abandoned house and the reveal of the artwork on the wall in the house and it's sudden reveal of a missing piece are marvelous.
― Neanderthal, Tuesday, 15 September 2020 03:10 (three years ago) link
I enjoyed Bird with the Crystal Plumage. excellent framing, not quite the heights of Deep Red, and a few draggy bits, but....whoknew I liked giallo after all
― Neanderthal, Tuesday, 15 September 2020 04:59 (three years ago) link
Phenomena is so awesome. I love how Jennifer Connelly manages to clean all the maggots and bile off her with that one errant fresh water pipe. All the stuff with the "infinite doorway visions" toward the beginning were incredible.
is Creepers different enough to be worth watching?
― flappy bird, Sunday, 1 November 2020 04:21 (three years ago) link
that film had real potential, but I couldn't get past the bad acting
― Dan S, Tuesday, 3 November 2020 01:46 (three years ago) link
referring to Phenomena
― Dan S, Tuesday, 3 November 2020 01:49 (three years ago) link
I didn't hate Phenomena, but I watched it with an astute friend who thought it was entertaining but awful, and that affected my opinion.
I most liked Suspiria and Deep Red. Tenebrae and Inferno were also interesting but not as good.
There were diminishing returns for me after that
― Dan S, Tuesday, 3 November 2020 02:02 (three years ago) link
This is not about Argento but there's no all-purpose giallo thread:
I LOVE Italian genre cinema of the 60's and 70's. Love the politics, clothes, design, the anything goes vibe and of course the soundtracks.
However, I am no good at dealing with gore and particularly violence against women in films, so have ignored the giallo genre while delving deep into spaghetti western and poliziotteschi.
So my question is, anyone know of any good efforts in the genre that lean more towards mystery or (even better) conspiracy thriller rather than the gore/horror side?
― Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 16 March 2021 16:28 (three years ago) link
You might well favour the adjacent Poliziotteschi genre - essentially, Italian cop thrillers of the 1970s. These movies share some of the same DNA with Giallo - including not only a similar sense of seventies style but also, it has to be admitted, some fairly unreconstructed sexual politics and brutal violence - but with a greater emphasis on crime, corruption and politics (again, often of a pretty reactionary, all crims are scum kind). Some of Morricone's best 70s soundtrack work was done for Poliziotteschi.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poliziotteschi
― Ward Fowler, Tuesday, 16 March 2021 16:40 (three years ago) link
I've watched tons of poliziotteschi, as per the previous post. :) "Milano Calibro 9" (smart) and "Street Law" (stoopid) are my faves.
― Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 16 March 2021 16:42 (three years ago) link
Oops yes.
― Ward Fowler, Tuesday, 16 March 2021 16:46 (three years ago) link
Saw him tonight introducing The Bird with the Crystal Plumage at Lincoln Center. It really is quite impressive as a first feature. The editing, which he hand-waved away in the Q&A (basically saying he edits when he shoots), is remarkably tight and good. Few if any contemporary directors would have the courage to edit like that. Was also struck for the first time by the humor in his writing… something that a large audience reminds you of when you hear the laughter in the room.
― Josefa, Saturday, 18 June 2022 05:16 (one year ago) link