Dub / Reggae: An Idiot's Guide

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It's inconceivable to imagine someone hearing Prince Far I's "Cry Tuff Dub Encounter Chapter 3" and not absolutely freaking out over dub, hard.

Andy, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

The Blood& Fire Sampler series is also a very good starting point for the novice. The second one is particularly good. A word of warning however: a glut of sub standard toss has ben reissued in the last few years and the reggae shelves in Tower records are so stuffed now that it's become difficult to differentiate between the good and crap. Any B&F stuff with Steve Barrow sleevenotes is usually a safe bet. Those mini Trojan box sets will also get you off the blocks into the right direction.

David Gunnip, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Add Scientist 'Meets Space Invaders'. Forget Heart of the Congo's, overrated.

Omar, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

My favourite Scientist LP is "Dub Landing", really very fine. Impossible to find, of course (in fact, even my copied copy is impossible to find since it's on a long term lend to a sometime contributor here). Why doesn't someone reissue that, eh?

Tim, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Omar is sooo wrong over Heart of the Congos... mind you, unless you like shrill falsetto vocals it might not be a wise choice.

m jemmeson, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Are there any labels to avoid - I'd heard the reggae CD market was flooded with shoddy product.

Dr. C, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

hmmm - JA vinyl is notoriously poor quality, e.g. reground stuff, with badly photocopied sleeves. if you're buying 7"s try and listen to them first, because the mastering can be dreadful besides all the pops etc

there's also loads of dodgy Lee Perry and King Tubby stuff - i.e. CDs put out claiming to be produced by them, or, when they're not lying, they're doing it illegally, and not paying the copyright owner. if you stick to Blood and Fire, Pressure Sounds, On-U, Trojan etc at first you should avoid the real stinkers, although all these labels have been guilty of barrel-scraping with certain releases.

m jemmeson, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

In answer to your original question, can we put reggae and dub together, sure we can, they are utterly, inextricably linked and it's often hard to draw a line between them. If you want to learn more about the origins of reggae and dub, read Bass Culture by Lloyd Bradley. If I were to pick one album to set you on your way I'd the Studio One Rockers compil on SOULJAZZ. It's got a bit of everything and doesn't contain a weak track.

Daniel, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Addendum: Lee Perry is playing in New Haven this evening (with the Mad Professor). Should I go?

David Raposa, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

hmmmm... Mad Professor is ok live, Lee Perry variable - he can be absolutely terrible. Reggae and dub aren't really 'live' musics, they're better on record or via DJ, IMO.

m jemmeson, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

That is the push I needed to save myself $25. Much obliged.

David Raposa, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

spend the money on reggae records - you won't regret it. live concerts are a nice way to see your heroes, but for a music which is all about skilful production and beautiful voices, live music venues don't really cut it. i think selective CD purchasing is more likely to turn someone on to reggae than a concert

m jemmeson, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Then again, sometimes Mad Professor can be killer.

cybele, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Nope. Mind made up. There's also the risk that my brand new company car could have an illicit rendevous with a cement brick. I like M's idea better - save the money, buy some discs, and acquaint myself with the music that way. I wouldn't mind going, but for TWENTY FIVE bucks?

David Raposa, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

we've talked about this before, david i'm sure. NO show is worth $25 bucks. not even miles davis' corpse in a daishiki.

jess, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Bullshit. I saw Lee Perry a few years ago with Mad Professor. He played for four hours, smoking giant spliffs that would have felled a lesser man in seconds the whole time. You have to see him just to see him prance around. (Great nude photo in Vanity Fair this month).

Ben Williams, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Also, dub IS a live music. You can't get the true physical impact of the music without hearing it booming out of enormous bass bins. Just go and hear a really kickass sound system and be transported to another dimension. I don't know if Abu Shanti still plays in London, but he's great.

Ben Williams, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Not to change the subject, but I think paying $32 to see Mission of Burma is pretty fair. Sort of. Maybe. Well, if they dedicate the set to me. And make "Einstein's Day" into "Raposa's Day". And change their name to Dave Is All Good. Yeah, then it'd be worth it.

But never mind me and my minor griping. Have I thanked you all for your recommendations yet? I haven't gone out and bought anything, mind you, but when I do, you'll be the 10th or 11th to know.

David Raposa, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

weed smokers in tha hay-ouse!!!! :)

fuckin contrary: Towers of Dub is better than Yabby U

Tracer Hand, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

To whoever said that dub needs to be experienced on a giant sound system: word.

You just can't get it loud enough at home. It's gotta be so heavy that you can feel the bass from your fingers through to your toes. I'd pay $25 for that--then again, I'm Canadian. Don't know whether I'd pay $25 US.

cybele, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Live Dub soundsystems are the best way to hear dub, unless you've got a 200k rig in your front room, seeing Jah shaka live the physicality of the bass is sickening, especially mixed with some weed, perfect!

jk, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I saw Lee Perry recently and it was dross. Having said that, dub can work live. Dennis Bovell and the Dub Band, for example, with DB making special effects with his voice. Staggering.

Daniel, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

People with serious knowledge have joined since the last time we covered this territory. I'm sure I'll be returning to this thread before my next trip to the record store. Nice work.

Mark, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

yeah, i was talking about live reggae concerts, i.e. with a band, singers etc, which *usually* wouldn't be a great introduction to reggae.

dub sound-systems play a variety of *records*, and are a safer bet as an introduction (as well as getting the impact of the bass. Jah Shaka is very good, another big UK name is Aba Shanti. most JA sound systems will play dancehall.

m jemmeson, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Right there with you...Reggae is and will always be producer/sound engineer music.

Bring on the Scratch, Jammy, and Tubby...and forward the bass.

cybele, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Anybody know anything about the Recall label? They're doing some 2-CD sets - Augustus Pablo, King Tubby, Horace Andy etc. I bought the Augustus Pablo one, called "Jah Inspiration" and I'm pretty disappointed - some lifeless, poorly recorded trundles on one disc, and some King Tubby dubs (so it says) on disc 2. Have I bought a pup?

Dr. C, Tuesday, 13 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

one year passes...
My other *real* thing at the moment is 70s Gregory Isaacs. More Gregory.

Soon Forward and Mr. Isaacs are incredible. Smooooth mofo.

A step back a little further to rocksteady can't do any harm

Love love love rocksteady. Anybody who likes American soul music should check into it. Some favorites: John Holt (and the Paragons), Slim Smith (and the Techniques/Uniques), Pat Kelly, Ken Boothe, The Heptones.

The Pressure Sounds comps are great too.

The Royals singles compilation on Pressure Sounds, 'Pick Up the Pieces', has been kicking my ass recently. Classic from beginning to end. Dubwise, the Joe Gibbs comp. 'No Bones for the Dogs' is quality throughout as well.

Other shit that I've been hooked on and can usu be found at a good price: Delroy Wilson 'Good All Over' (rocksteady at the cusp of reggae), Dub Over Dub (27 tracks of Errol Thompson's mixing, with solid tracks as a base), the Wailing Souls self-titled debut (superb, utterly beautiful singing and catchy yet rough tunes), Scientist vs Space Invaders (um, it's early 80s Scientist. nuff said), Gladiators 'Proverbial Reggae' (you know reggae is the shit when an album this good hardly gets discussed)

oops (Oops), Saturday, 21 June 2003 07:10 (twenty years ago) link

the only dub reggae album you need is best dressed chicken in town by dr alimantado. it has the best sleeve ever as well

ss, Saturday, 21 June 2003 16:59 (twenty years ago) link

six months pass...
"A History of Dub: The Golden Age" is an amazing comp.

Ian Johnson (orion), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 07:37 (twenty years ago) link

Also: are there any record stores in NYC where I can find CHEAP used dub LPs? (where cheap is like $5-$7.)

Ian Johnson (orion), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 07:45 (twenty years ago) link

Just want to plug for the King Jammy's book--probably one of the best stuff, certainly one of the only things, about that era of dancehall written. Plus...Intro design!

Born Fi Dead by Laurie Gunst is also essential to get that time, tho less about music than politics.

Ian, check Jammyland in the East Village. Might be more $8-$12 but the selection is all essential. Everything above and more. In JA fashion, will play you 45s and LPs if you ask. If you can make it out to Moodies in the north Bronx, it's also amazing. More stuff straight from JA distributors. VP, of course, too in Queens.

Jeff Chang, Tuesday, 13 January 2004 16:09 (twenty years ago) link

Other thing is Shanachie has just re-released Augustus Pablo's King Tubby Meets The Rockers Uptown in deluxe edition with extra dubs. It's incredible.

Jeff Chang, Tuesday, 13 January 2004 16:28 (twenty years ago) link

I have the old version on Shanachie and the tracks are mislabeled, causing me to not know which was the title track, ie it says it's track #8 but it's really #9 IIRC. AMG has it wrong, too.

oops (Oops), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 16:40 (twenty years ago) link

Now I love A. Pablo as much as the next man, probably even more. But am I the only one who feels a bit underwhelmed at the prospect of hearing more versions of those classic Rockers rhythms? I know that one's not supposed to say this but more cuts of those rhythms = diminishing returns, I fear.

Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 16:48 (twenty years ago) link

I could listen to him all day at the moment. The best album I've bought in the last year or so is this :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00008LKHZ/ref=sr_aps_music_1_1/202-0254809-4916649

Dr. C (Dr. C), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 17:22 (twenty years ago) link

four years pass...

if you stick to Blood and Fire, Pressure Sounds, On-U, Trojan etc at first you should avoid the real stinkers, although all these labels have been guilty of barrel-scraping with certain releases.

On what discs is Blood & Fire ''barrel-scraping''? I mean, I've only got about 25 of their discs (RIP to B&F, BTW), but I haven't heard any ''barrel-scraping.''

Daniel, Esq., Sunday, 2 March 2008 17:56 (sixteen years ago) link

Forget Heart of the Congo's, overrated.

-- Omar, Wednesday, October 31, 2001 8:00 PM (6 years ago)

huh

am0n, Sunday, 2 March 2008 18:47 (sixteen years ago) link

i just ordered that jammys book mentioned upthread

am0n, Sunday, 2 March 2008 19:02 (sixteen years ago) link

5 dolla

am0n, Sunday, 2 March 2008 22:13 (sixteen years ago) link

'Nother good dub/reggae book is supposed to be Michael E. Veal's Dub: Soundscapes & Shattered Songs in Jamaican Reggae (2007).

Also 5 dolla, perhaps?

Daniel, Esq., Sunday, 2 March 2008 23:28 (sixteen years ago) link

I just randomly found Lee Perry's Ape-ology, BTW. Will be spinning it this evening. Should I prepare myself to be disappointed or is this a "change your life"-type experience (or does it fall somewhere in between, perhaps)?

Daniel, Esq., Sunday, 2 March 2008 23:30 (sixteen years ago) link

judy mowatt.
gregory isaacs.

dylannn, Sunday, 2 March 2008 23:36 (sixteen years ago) link

I just randomly found Lee Perry's Ape-ology, BTW. Will be spinning it this evening. Should I prepare myself to be disappointed or is this a "change your life"-type experience (or does it fall somewhere in between, perhaps)?

-- Daniel, Esq.

I like Ape-ology but prefer the Arkology boxset which is full of great vocalists (Max Romeo et al.) and is therefore a bit more accessible. Ape-ology is a much heavier / claustrophobic proposition.

sam500, Monday, 3 March 2008 05:57 (sixteen years ago) link

Ape-ology is just Super Ape (super awesome) + Return of the Super Ape (not as awesome) + Roast Fish, Collie, & Cornbread (awesome, but Perry vocals get a little wearying after a while), right? Yeah Arkology is better.

Alex in SF, Monday, 3 March 2008 19:53 (sixteen years ago) link

i agree with the poster that said heart of the congo is overrated. there are a couple of very nice trax on it, but....
why come nobody has mentioned Black Uhuru on this thread? i can't think of a better reggae group from the eighties - Anthem and Red are both pretty stellar

outdoor_miner, Monday, 3 March 2008 20:00 (sixteen years ago) link

Anyway the answer to the original B&F question is that Congos and Burning Spear and Tubby stuff that were among their original releases were so strong that for a while everything else kind of paled in comparison and so a lot of reggae trainspotters got down on the label. Specifically I recall the Morwells, U-Brown, Impact All Stars getting a lot of flack (needlessly frankly.)

Alex in SF, Monday, 3 March 2008 20:06 (sixteen years ago) link

re: congos being overrated

this is truly an idiot's guide

elan, Monday, 3 March 2008 20:11 (sixteen years ago) link

Roast Fish, Collie Weed & Cornbread is classic Perry. Also a big fan of "Kung Fu Man" on The Mighty Upsetter.

ian, Monday, 3 March 2008 20:12 (sixteen years ago) link

Hell, I haven't heard any Perry I didn't like. Double Seven and Blackboard Jungle Dub also get a lot of play around here.

ian, Monday, 3 March 2008 20:12 (sixteen years ago) link

Yeah Arkology is better.

No option for yesterday, as Ape-ology is all this place had. However, some time earlier I did find The Upsetter Selection at the same place. Not bad for a Border's Bookstore music section.

Daniel, Esq., Monday, 3 March 2008 20:32 (sixteen years ago) link

this is excellent, thx!

corrs unplugged, Tuesday, 26 December 2023 10:52 (three months ago) link

thanks for giving it a listen, i'm happy to hear it was enjoyed

budo jeru, Tuesday, 26 December 2023 18:23 (three months ago) link

For UK ilxors - Mad Professor is appearing on The Repair Shop tonight (!?), getting a processor repaired.

Twelves, Wednesday, 27 December 2023 17:42 (three months ago) link

is budo jeru’s christmas mix simply the best christmas album ever? srs question

Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 28 December 2023 23:15 (three months ago) link

:D

budo jeru, Friday, 29 December 2023 01:37 (three months ago) link

listened to budo’s mix on the way out to my parent’s place for christmas dinner on monday. me and the mrs really enjoyed it

i regret not taking a bluetooth speaker to share with the fam

sknybrg, Friday, 29 December 2023 01:52 (three months ago) link

like it!!

ava (paolo), Friday, 29 December 2023 19:30 (three months ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGLmOjymMDc

this is my favourite jamaican christmas song. it's kind of a sad one

ava (paolo), Friday, 29 December 2023 19:31 (three months ago) link

two weeks pass...

I stumbled across this tonight (Repair Shop is our family zero effort TV) and it's sort of head-frying or dreamlike - Mad Professor brings in a phaser he'd got off Lee Perry and asks them to get it working. The electronics guy who usually just fixes radios and turntables is out of his depth, god love him. Not even a celebrity episode - it's stuck in with a dog-handling ex-copper getting his life-sized ceramic Alsatian repaired and an extremely rugby-playing man getting the rugby boots he got when he was 6 patched up.

iplayer link - "An intriguing 1970s electronic sound effect machine causes a commotion at the barn."

woof, Monday, 15 January 2024 00:26 (three months ago) link

Whoops, meant to quote this:


For UK ilxors - Mad Professor is appearing on The Repair Shop tonight (!?), getting a processor repaired.

― Twelves, Wednesday, December 27, 2023 5:42 PM (two weeks ago) bookmarkflaglink

woof, Monday, 15 January 2024 00:26 (three months ago) link

I want to thank this thread for recommending "Dadawah" LP. after my mom passed away it was the only thing I could bear to listen to, like, easing my way back into listening to music. Something about it is good for enduring

xheugy eddy (D-40), Tuesday, 16 January 2024 01:53 (three months ago) link

Condolences, D-40. I hear you, it's really hard to get back into music after losing someone close. When my dad passed, it took me a long time to play any record. Eventually, it was Pharoah Sanders' Harvest Time that stayed on repeat until I could listen to anything else. I'd argue that it's a similar feel to that Dadawah record.

julian cage (sawdust lagoon), Tuesday, 16 January 2024 22:27 (three months ago) link

yes, sorry to hear that D40, truly

picked this one up for a quid early today, hadn't heard it before but it's good!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmFs5Ldu1lk
Teddy Irie - Tear It Down

blazin' squab (NickB), Tuesday, 16 January 2024 22:39 (three months ago) link

Yeah D-40 I would like to echo everyone's sympathies and add that when I was dealing with the long period between my dad's sudden hospitalization and his passing (about 18 months) one of the only types of music i could tolerate was dub. i listened to a LOT of King Tubby. Like hours per week. There's something special about how it lowers the heartrate I think? Idk.

Piggy Lepton (La Lechera), Wednesday, 17 January 2024 00:31 (two months ago) link

Huh, I hadn't made that connection but since my Dad died almost 2 years ago I've gone deep into King Tubby, Augustus Pablo, Dr. Alimontado and recently picked up a STELLAR comp called "Step Forward Youth". You may be right that this music soothes the grieving soul.

Gerald McBoing-Boing, Wednesday, 17 January 2024 01:21 (two months ago) link

I've been absorbed by the Joe Gibbs compilations Cherry Red has been putting out recently through their Doctor Bird imprint.

Joe Gibbs & the Professionals, 100 Years of Dub 2CD

Joe Gibbs & the Professionals, The 1970s Dub Albums Collection 4CD

United Dreadlocks Vols 1 & 2 - Joe Gibbs Roots Reggae 1976-1977 2CD

Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Wednesday, 17 January 2024 02:29 (two months ago) link

one month passes...

I just heard Gregory Isaacs' "Night Nurse" for the first time. It is amazing - give me more robo-reggae.

il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Friday, 1 March 2024 23:44 (one month ago) link

wow! i'd love to be hearing it for the 1st time. the dub of it is extraordinary too.

stirmonster, Saturday, 2 March 2024 00:05 (one month ago) link

I will have to check that out. I swoon for that synth sound.

il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Saturday, 2 March 2024 02:50 (one month ago) link

More robo-reggae? Here you go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU2kjMMU0Sk

bbq, Saturday, 2 March 2024 04:35 (one month ago) link

Yes! Thank you!

Lol @ that Atari sound on track 2.

il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Saturday, 2 March 2024 12:53 (one month ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNzo2Jk77eU

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 2 March 2024 14:04 (one month ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL2Ll454OnA

bbq, Sunday, 3 March 2024 01:44 (one month ago) link

chi ba wa wa

budo jeru, Sunday, 3 March 2024 01:50 (one month ago) link


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