"Man is not a garland flower that can pollinate oneself" to quote good old Captain Anderson (or was it Talbot? I can't quite recall.)
― Treacle in a Flaming Wheelbarrow (kate), Thursday, 6 April 2006 11:54 (eighteen years ago) link
― the man from mars won't eat up bars where the tv's on (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 6 April 2006 11:54 (eighteen years ago) link
― Konal Doddz (blueski), Thursday, 6 April 2006 11:55 (eighteen years ago) link
crossposts
― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 6 April 2006 11:55 (eighteen years ago) link
― Treacle in a Flaming Wheelbarrow (kate), Thursday, 6 April 2006 11:56 (eighteen years ago) link
― Konal Doddz (blueski), Thursday, 6 April 2006 11:58 (eighteen years ago) link
― jz, Thursday, 6 April 2006 12:00 (eighteen years ago) link
Bah. My wife and I are both 36, and we've known since we were married (15 years!) that we didn't want children. And we still don't.
― phil d. (Phil D.), Thursday, 6 April 2006 12:00 (eighteen years ago) link
― jz, Thursday, 6 April 2006 12:02 (eighteen years ago) link
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 6 April 2006 12:02 (eighteen years ago) link
― phil d. (Phil D.), Thursday, 6 April 2006 12:07 (eighteen years ago) link
― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 6 April 2006 12:08 (eighteen years ago) link
― Real Goths Don't Wear Black (Enrique), Thursday, 6 April 2006 12:08 (eighteen years ago) link
― Konal Doddz (blueski), Thursday, 6 April 2006 12:09 (eighteen years ago) link
― Konal Doddz (blueski), Thursday, 6 April 2006 12:10 (eighteen years ago) link
LEND ME YOUR SPERM!!!!!
― Bernard's Summer Girlfriend (kate), Thursday, 6 April 2006 12:11 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 6 April 2006 12:23 (eighteen years ago) link
― bham (bham), Thursday, 6 April 2006 12:36 (eighteen years ago) link
There were plenty of other factors in play of course, and I'm not suggesting that this would be the norm for 40-y-o new parents. The way things are going, that kind of generation gap will probably become the norm.
(FWIW, I was very keen to have children when I was in my mid-late 20s, gradually went off the idea into my 30s and then, suddenly, at 34-ish thought it would be the greatest thing.)
― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 6 April 2006 12:37 (eighteen years ago) link
― Konal Doddz (blueski), Thursday, 6 April 2006 12:38 (eighteen years ago) link
― Real Goths Don't Wear Black (Enrique), Thursday, 6 April 2006 12:40 (eighteen years ago) link
Seconded. I've already more or less done my back in! You simply don't have the energy at 40 that you had at 30.
― jz, Thursday, 6 April 2006 12:41 (eighteen years ago) link
― Konal Doddz (blueski), Thursday, 6 April 2006 12:42 (eighteen years ago) link
― Real Goths Don't Wear Black (Enrique), Thursday, 6 April 2006 12:43 (eighteen years ago) link
Thanks, SteveM...)
Oh, and I'm a lot worse off financially now than I was in my late-20s...
― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 6 April 2006 12:43 (eighteen years ago) link
― jz, Thursday, 6 April 2006 12:44 (eighteen years ago) link
― Konal Doddz (blueski), Thursday, 6 April 2006 12:47 (eighteen years ago) link
― anahata, Thursday, 6 April 2006 12:47 (eighteen years ago) link
― Konal Doddz (blueski), Thursday, 6 April 2006 12:49 (eighteen years ago) link
I imagine student debt is taken into account when applying for all the various benefits you get for having children.
― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 6 April 2006 12:50 (eighteen years ago) link
i guess, if they WEALLY WEALLY want kids...
Incidentally the pressure to even just own a property can be just as irritating as all this to people like me a lot of the time. -- Konal Doddz (stevem7...)
otm
― Real Goths Don't Wear Black (Enrique), Thursday, 6 April 2006 12:50 (eighteen years ago) link
― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 6 April 2006 12:51 (eighteen years ago) link
― Bernard's Summer Girlfriend (kate), Thursday, 6 April 2006 12:52 (eighteen years ago) link
― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 6 April 2006 12:56 (eighteen years ago) link
― Real Goths Don't Wear Black (Enrique), Thursday, 6 April 2006 12:59 (eighteen years ago) link
(working families tax credits and whathaveyou)
― ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 6 April 2006 13:00 (eighteen years ago) link
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 6 April 2006 13:01 (eighteen years ago) link
― Bernard's Summer Girlfriend (kate), Thursday, 6 April 2006 13:01 (eighteen years ago) link
i don't want children, but i'm pretty sure that if i ever change my mind i'll go the adoption route. there are so many kids out there that need homes, and that's more important to me than bringing some precious-wecious vanity project into the world.
― the man from mars won't eat up bars where the tv's on (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 6 April 2006 13:02 (eighteen years ago) link
xpost the man from mars won't eat up bars where the tv's on otm
― Real Goths Don't Wear Black (Enrique), Thursday, 6 April 2006 13:03 (eighteen years ago) link
I'm not going to raise a child and have it financially dependent on me for at least 16 years just to get a tax break and a couple of wee incentives.
JBR OTM re adoption.
― ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 6 April 2006 13:06 (eighteen years ago) link
You think people having kids is basically about precious-wecious vanity projects? That sounds a bit snotty Also, don't assume adopting is at all easy. First, you have to prove you're financially viable and stable, have got a house big enough etc etc. And there's usually an age cut-off as well. Once you've gone through all those hoops you've got to go out and find the child yourself at your own expense, which generally means thousands of pounds and dealing with the tortuous non-English-language bureaucracy of countries like Russia or Haiti or Colombia or whatever. And then often enough you'll find that the kids up for adoption aren't all necessarily unwanted by the mother but the mother simply can't afford it so there's the moral dilemma of the fact you're basically buying the child, etc etc etc. It's not so easy.
― azarta, Thursday, 6 April 2006 13:14 (eighteen years ago) link
it's probably a good idea to have this kind of stuff in mind however you acquire a youngling.
― Real Goths Don't Wear Black (Enrique), Thursday, 6 April 2006 13:15 (eighteen years ago) link
― ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 6 April 2006 13:17 (eighteen years ago) link
Sure, but you have to prove it to the authorities, who are going to ask all sorts of searching personal questions about your marriage/relationship, your finances etc etc.. Anyway, I'm just saying that adoption is by no means an easy option. The people I know who have done it have gone through hell doing it, spent vast sums of time and money and it has required real single-minded determination.
― azarta, Thursday, 6 April 2006 13:21 (eighteen years ago) link
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 6 April 2006 13:31 (eighteen years ago) link
From what I've seen, I think it's psychologically much tougher than pushing one out through your vagina.
― azarta, Thursday, 6 April 2006 13:36 (eighteen years ago) link
― ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 6 April 2006 13:36 (eighteen years ago) link
All through my 20s I was stoiclly anti-children (for myself) and I thought if I ever changed my mind I'd adopt (for precisely the reasons JBR and Alisa have articulated.) But what can I say, I have changed as I've grown older. Starting about 4 years ago I came to terms with the fact that I really want to bear a child. This was greatly intensified by my grandmother's death last year. She was like a mother to me and now that she's gone I realize how much she brought to all of our lives -- her little family. I feel like I wouldn't do her love justice if I didn't pass it on to a child of my own. Now having children is at the top of my goal list.
― Miss Misery xox (MissMiseryTX), Thursday, 6 April 2006 13:37 (eighteen years ago) link
― Laurel (Laurel), Friday, 7 April 2006 15:02 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tim (Tim), Friday, 7 April 2006 15:06 (eighteen years ago) link
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 7 April 2006 15:09 (eighteen years ago) link
― Laurel (Laurel), Friday, 7 April 2006 15:09 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tim (Tim), Friday, 7 April 2006 15:13 (eighteen years ago) link
― Konal Doddz (blueski), Friday, 7 April 2006 15:14 (eighteen years ago) link
― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 7 April 2006 15:16 (eighteen years ago) link
at least until they were thirteen or so, the threat would probably seem pretty plausible.
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 7 April 2006 15:23 (eighteen years ago) link
This wasn't really a problem in NY, where none of my friends were baby makers, but now that I live in VA (temporarily) I'm in a much more conservative environment, and I think it is a bit of a mystery to my coworkers now as to why I am not married and making babies. If/when I move back to a large city this will hopefully change.
Also, now I work with a lot of kids and parents and I think the kids are so charming and wonder if I shouldn't embark on my own little vanity project after all. But I like to come home to peace and quiet and I wonder how I could deal with raising a child and being peppy and not cranky. Because I realize how depression in parents easily manifests itself (somewhere down the line) in depression in children. Luckily, there's no sperm donor in the picture so I don't have an opportunity to test my recent musings.
FInally, dealing with my mom's health now makes me think about who will look after me when I get older...and maybe I should have a child as a form of security. But again, this is fear speaking.
So childness for now and for the forseeable future, but not ruling out possible changes of mind, as circumstances permit.
Also very disturbed with why someone would state point-blank that childness women are somehow going against their nature. If you feel that you are not going to be a good mother, or don't have the wherewithal to raise a child, or simply aren't interested in having children, surely it's better to realize that than to blindly go along and have a child for the sake of it?
I also respect those who do have children, whatever their motivations, the delivery process itself seems massive, and all of those minutes and hours and days dedicated to childcare. I wonder how people entertain their children all day? I think I was just put in front of the tv or left with a good book, but I feel like it's important these days to be stimulating baby's brain at every moment.
― Mary (Mary), Saturday, 8 April 2006 02:18 (eighteen years ago) link
Way to generalise!
-- ailsa (ailsa.watso...), April 6th, 2006.
Whoa there, Alisa. You sound a little neurotic
― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Saturday, 8 April 2006 03:13 (eighteen years ago) link
For Markelby:
(I'm kind of playing devil's advocate here a bit. I have no *desire* to give birth to a child. I'm not going to rush out and adopt a kid either. If I were to find myself pregnant, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. I'm only thinking about the issue right now because this thread is here.) -- ailsa (ailsa.watso...), April 6th, 2006 4:44 PM. (ailsa) (later)
And, as Andrew F pointed out, I wasn't extrapolating to the whole world. Basically, *I* don't have the desire to experience pregnancy, give birth, etc. And I don't really understand this urge in others. I do get that it's there, but without having experienced it, I can't understand how it would drive, for example, Nathalie to question Trayce's decision to not bring another child into the world, given that Trayce is a grown-up intelligent woman who has, presumably, given this matter a bit of thought.
I *do* understand that everything changes when you have a kid (I do have a mother, after all, and she didn't really want kids either, but has managed more than OK). I just don't understand this rampant biological ticking clock stuff. I can't imagine a point ever in my life where I'll go, "oh, what I need now is a baby". I'm 33, I've been happily married for five years. If I was going to do it, now would be as good a time as any. I JUST DON'T WANT TO.
I think I have stuff I could pass on to the next generation (I do "mother" problem teenagers for a living, you know) and I have considered fostering, as it's not so *final* as adopting and having a kid, but it can be... (my big brother was fosterered by us when he was 11, he's now in his late 30s and very much part of the family).
― ailsa (ailsa), Saturday, 8 April 2006 09:13 (eighteen years ago) link
― Markelby (Mark C), Saturday, 8 April 2006 10:40 (eighteen years ago) link
― ailsa (ailsa), Saturday, 8 April 2006 11:39 (eighteen years ago) link
― Konal Doddz (blueski), Saturday, 8 April 2006 11:53 (eighteen years ago) link
― Markelby (Mark C), Saturday, 8 April 2006 12:02 (eighteen years ago) link
Sorry, Mark, you called me a robot (and you know me well enough, I hope, to know that I'm not) so I just wasn't sure. Also because I use "cheers" in a sarky voice more often than not. Thanks :-)
Seconded on Mary's post. Much more eloquent than my ramblings.
― ailsa (ailsa), Saturday, 8 April 2006 15:16 (eighteen years ago) link
― Mary (Mary), Saturday, 8 April 2006 19:26 (eighteen years ago) link
― i'm in for it now, Saturday, 8 April 2006 20:05 (eighteen years ago) link
― accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Sunday, 9 April 2006 08:10 (eighteen years ago) link
If it helps - I have fallen pregnant before. I had an abortion. No regrets. Sorry. Not going to apologise for it.
― Trayce is not a guy! (trayce), Sunday, 9 April 2006 09:54 (eighteen years ago) link
?
― typo hell #14: neanderthal started writing it not know how it (Karl Malone), Sunday, 24 October 2021 17:21 (two years ago) link
there is nothing inherently wrong with either group
― sarahell, Sunday, 24 October 2021 19:22 (two years ago) link
i just found out my mom smoked throughout her pregnancy with me. thanks mom!― the man from mars won't eat up bars where the tv's on (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, April 6, 2006 11:54 AM (fifteen years ago) bookmarkflaglink
she did look cool tho― Konal Doddz (blueski), Thursday, April 6, 2006 11:55 AM (fifteen years ago) bookmarkflaglink
Hahahaha
― Halfway there but for you, Monday, 25 October 2021 00:20 (two years ago) link
sarahell otm. the thread title sets up a pointless opposition that the OP then blithely ignores in order to make a blandly 'trenchant' observation. bfd.
― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Monday, 25 October 2021 03:35 (two years ago) link