― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 18 October 2004 17:41 (nineteen years ago) link
― Michael White (Hereward), Monday, 18 October 2004 17:43 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 18 October 2004 17:44 (nineteen years ago) link
The grid (the original document) and the annexation of the boroughs helped make it distinctive and to some are the opposite of 'sprawl'.
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 18:03 (nineteen years ago) link
― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Monday, 18 October 2004 18:29 (nineteen years ago) link
― k3rry (dymaxia), Monday, 18 October 2004 18:33 (nineteen years ago) link
x-post.
― Nemo (JND), Monday, 18 October 2004 18:33 (nineteen years ago) link
*by definition = a sprawl/conglomeration. It would be much more interesting if it measured straight density according to city limits, not by arbitrary boundaries.
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 18 October 2004 18:36 (nineteen years ago) link
and city limits are arbitrary boundaries
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 18:37 (nineteen years ago) link
Are you talking http://fthevote.com/? I can see why that might be exhausting.;^}
― j.lu (j.lu), Monday, 18 October 2004 18:39 (nineteen years ago) link
― Nemo (JND), Monday, 18 October 2004 18:44 (nineteen years ago) link
Megapoli:Megapoli are huge sprawling conglomerations of housing, commercial interests and sundry support and entertainment facilities.
I think that geography/topography are the primary challenges to sprawl (cf, hong kong, macau, singapore). you may consider them arbitrary, but at the very least city limits at least provide a consistent measure of fixed population growth. you can not say the same for megapoli.
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 18 October 2004 18:46 (nineteen years ago) link
Cities in the NY/Chicago density class - SF, Philly, DC, Balto, Miami, Cleveland, Seattle, Oakland, Minneapolis, St. Louis, Detroit, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Rochester, and many of the cities in these cities' metro areas
Cities in the Texas density class - Phoenix, Denver, Atlanta, Kansas City, New Orleans, Indianapolis, Charlotte, Vegas, Nashville, Memphis, Albuquerque, OKC, Richmond, Tulsa, Omaha, Wichita, Tampa, Birmingham, Baton Rouge, etc.
There seems to be a clear political difference here.
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 18:55 (nineteen years ago) link
conglomerate
intransitive senses : to gather into a mass or coherent wholetransitive senses : ACCUMULATE
annex
1 : to attach as a quality, consequence, or condition2 archaic : to join together materially : UNITE3 : to add to something earlier, larger, or more important4 : to incorporate (a country or other territory) within the domain of a state5 : to obtain or take for oneself
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 18 October 2004 18:56 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 18:59 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:04 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:08 (nineteen years ago) link
New York is almost twice as dense as Chicago
New York is almost 5X as dense as Chicago!
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:09 (nineteen years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:12 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:13 (nineteen years ago) link
― suzy (suzy), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:19 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:23 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:31 (nineteen years ago) link
― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:32 (nineteen years ago) link
Yup, we swayed 'the moneyed and the immigrants' and made the poor little PQ loose.
― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:33 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:34 (nineteen years ago) link
― briania (briania), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:35 (nineteen years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:36 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:40 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:40 (nineteen years ago) link
of course i did this the hard way - the density rankings make it plainer
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:50 (nineteen years ago) link
― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:53 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:55 (nineteen years ago) link
― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Monday, 18 October 2004 19:58 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 20:07 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 20:08 (nineteen years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 18 October 2004 20:14 (nineteen years ago) link
― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Monday, 18 October 2004 20:15 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 20:23 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 20:34 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 20:35 (nineteen years ago) link
also, while the layout of lower Manhattan was largely unplanned, it took nearly 200 years for colonists to move above Wall Street, and they planned much of the rest of the island very shortly after doing so
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 21:34 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 21:45 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 18 October 2004 22:10 (nineteen years ago) link
With a little more than two weeks to the election, Bush was campaigning in New Jersey, a reliably Democratic state that was hit hard when terrorists struck the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001.
Campaigning in Marlton, N.J., Bush accused Kerry of having a pre-Sept. 11 view of the world, a mind-set that he called dangerous. Kerry's approach to terrorism would permit a response "only after America is hit," he said.
"This kind of Sept. 10 attitude is no way to protect our country," Bush said, echoing many lines from his debate appearances and campaign speeches.
The Bush campaign unveiled a new TV ad that sought to portray Kerry as weak on terrorism - "either we fight terrorists abroad or face them here" - and accuses the Democrat of opposing President Reagan "as he won the Cold War."
Nearly 700 New Jersey residents died when hijacked airplanes flew into the World Trade Center's twin towers, and polls show national security and terrorism are the top campaign issues among voters in the state.
Democrat Al Gore easily won New Jersey in 2000, but voters' worry about another terrorist attack is a key reason why Bush and Kerry are locked in a tight race for the state's 15 electoral votes.
Kerry adviser Joe Lockhart says New Jersey is an interesting place for the president to campaign because its two senators and former Gov. Thomas Kean, chairman of the bipartisan Sept. 11 commission, have complained that Bush hasn't done enough to push the panel's recommendations into law.
The writer's logic in this article seems to be that a large election factor for people in NJ is the probability of another terrorist attack but makes no mention that there is less of a race in New York and DC, neighboring state and district where attacks actually occured.
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 18 October 2004 22:21 (nineteen years ago) link
So the same colonists lived for 200 years?
― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 02:54 (nineteen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 04:56 (nineteen years ago) link
The thread question here is an excellent one, and one that's been bugging me for a long time now. It's strange not just vote-wise but emotionally: people in states that have almost no chance of being affected by terrorism seem actually to be more personally upset with the possibility than people who are actually in a position to have to deal with it. I suppose if you live in Arkansas terrorism is a much more effective bogeyman?
― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 18:13 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 18:58 (nineteen years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 19:05 (nineteen years ago) link
also the notion that any of these states - CaliforniaIllinoisWashington DCMarylandMassachusettsNew York - being kerry states is based on their failure to be persuaded of "Bush's commitment to protect the American people from terrorism" is absurd; these are bedrock democratic states ("blue states": brooks, < insert whatever halfbaked "clever" halfborrowed term here > : momus). also: if maryland's in here, where's virginia? and atlanta's got more mention al qaeda traffic than boston by a mile so where's a georgia? (also the notion of atlanta being a republican city will be laughable to anyone remotely familiar with it)(a group which doesn't include to be sure brooks, momus, or, apparently, proudly, gabbneb). more to the point: where's nevada? las vegas has received more repeated mentions/threats than any american city besides nyc, dc, and maybe san fran and bush barely won it in 2000 so if gabbneb's theory hold ANY weight and likelihood of being the target of an al qaeda attack (as opposed to terrorist attack)(cuz historically, outside of al qaeda attacks, red states have stood a far greater likelihood of suffering a terrorist attack than blue states) shouldn't kerry have a solid lead in nevada? his theory might - might - rank as a halfway worth thinking about if he didn't use states that would be solidly in kerry's column regardless of terrorism or bush's ability or perceived ability to defend against it. a rightwing spin on it would be that states that are more likely to be attacked would be more likely to fear and hence flee terrorism's challenge and therefore would obviously support kerry, the candidate of surrender. a rightwinger could even bring red staters disproportionately comprising the military into it by saying that red staters, not debilitated by fear of attack, are afforded the turpitude to stand up to terrorists and risk their lives (unneccesarily - since they have no reason to fear losing their own lives in a terrorist attack)(i can't spell unneccessarily) and therefore would obviously support bush, the candidate who wants to fight terrorists. for the cherry on the sundae this rightwing columnist could even top it off by stating that red staters, since their the ones who fight in wars, would naturally support the candidate who supports the troops and obviously that's not going to be the guy who was going to vote for the $87 billion before he voted against, etc. etc, insert anecdote about a diner in oklahoma in here somewhere. all of these arguments are bullshit.
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 02:21 (nineteen years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 02:22 (nineteen years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 02:30 (nineteen years ago) link
please read my comments on this thread more carefully Blount - I said the exact opposite
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 02:35 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 02:36 (nineteen years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 02:39 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 02:41 (nineteen years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 02:43 (nineteen years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 02:47 (nineteen years ago) link
LA and Miami more than San Fran, I thought. Vegas, Arlington and Alexandria did go for Gore in 2000, though I dunno why we're using pre-9/11 votes to measure concern about terrorism.
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 02:57 (nineteen years ago) link
The fact that i read the entire thing and thought about it means I get to talk about Momus.
― aimurchie, Wednesday, 20 October 2004 02:58 (nineteen years ago) link
That's what i need to know about Chicago, too! I mean, where the fuck are *those* parties? Maps would be appreciated.
― Lifted, or, the story is 'neath my ass (kenan), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 02:58 (nineteen years ago) link
Also, a point that I didn't get to make earlier (I had some errands to run): Timothy McVeigh was a Gulf War I vet.
Also, another point: the most significant acts of domestic terrorism I can think of other than Oklahoma City: D.C. Sniper and anthrax attacks. Both of which took place in urban and suburban settings. I guess you could throw in the Ohio sniper too, but then we'd have to really talk about suburban and rural areas and not just pay some sort of Brooksian lip-service to them.
― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 03:25 (nineteen years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 03:31 (nineteen years ago) link
For one thing, I imagine that there are a lot more New Yorkers in Maine (where many in the Boston-to-DC-metroplex retire or reside for part of the year) than there are in Alabama. places where Jews are found in fewer numbers aren't necessarily inhospitable to them, of course (and i wasn't saying any such thing, if that wasn't clear). but minority status and the desire for/requirement of a community for religious observance are going to discourage Jews from moving to places where there aren't many Jews.
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 03:43 (nineteen years ago) link
― aimurchie, Wednesday, 20 October 2004 03:44 (nineteen years ago) link
― Lifted, or, the story is 'neath my ass (kenan), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 03:50 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 03:50 (nineteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 03:55 (nineteen years ago) link
― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 03:58 (nineteen years ago) link
Is that a place now? What rights do they give its citizens? I may want to move there.
― Lifted, or, the story is 'neath my ass (kenan), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 04:06 (nineteen years ago) link
― Lifted, or, the story is 'neath my ass (kenan), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 04:07 (nineteen years ago) link
― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 04:10 (nineteen years ago) link
― nabiscothingy, Friday, 22 October 2004 01:52 (nineteen years ago) link