Says it all really
― Number None, Saturday, 11 June 2011 13:14 (twelve years ago) link
"The team that defends the best I guarantee will win this game."
― Chris, Saturday, 11 June 2011 13:21 (twelve years ago) link
"Ok here comes the the ball, oh wait i've only got two touches, ohshitoshit" *hoof*
― Number None, Saturday, 11 June 2011 13:23 (twelve years ago) link
So England 2 touch passing practice is actually just shooting practice. Sigh.
― pandemic, Saturday, 11 June 2011 13:35 (twelve years ago) link
Even more worrying is that the FA don't seem to see the problem here and that they're happy to upload this shit to Youtube. Unless they totally get it and it's a cunning plan designed to draw attention to the deficiencies of English football. Granted it's been edited, but still.
― Chris, Saturday, 11 June 2011 16:45 (twelve years ago) link
i was involuntarily drawn to mutter "oh you fucking twats" halfway thru the vid
― aka best bum of the o_O's (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 11 June 2011 18:07 (twelve years ago) link
Option 3: the FA proving it's listening by not making young players play a 90-minute game on a full-size pitch.
― William Bloody Swygart, Saturday, 11 June 2011 18:31 (twelve years ago) link
q. Gareth Southgate: "In 11-a-side matches there are fewer touches for players. If we go to that format too young, then it becomes much more of an athletic-based game – we have huge pitches that kids can't get around. It benefits the physically stronger players but there's a real danger that we lose the smaller, more technically gifted ones. There is a high drop-out of players in that nature."
madness I say.
― Antoine Bugleboy (Merdeyeux), Saturday, 11 June 2011 19:35 (twelve years ago) link
I was thinking about starting a thread for this but I guess this is appropriate as any.
Spain have an obvious style of play that goes through the ages (the 'technique is king' aka the Xavi). Germany seem to have spent the past five years doing something similar (the direct + fast + technical ability + organisation aka the Ronaldo). Italy have seemingly always done this (the 'go one up and defend like a bastard' aka the anyone involved in Italian football not named Cassano from the past thirty years). France, Holland, Brazil and Argentina - basically the other BIG footballing nations have been lucky enough to have exceptional talents* but they look as though they are trailing behind Germany and Spain due to disorganisation and no real unity of tactical ideas.
But why are we not looking to create an English 'style' or understanding? Southgate and co have been talking about Barcelona which is fine but where is the bigger picture? If we are copying a style that Cryuff starting working on 20 years ago, we are always going to be 20 years behind. English football does have many great and defining characteristics, much like Italian and German football that should be worked on as well as technique.
This u21 team is all fast, strong, taller and full of stamina. Yet our closing down is laboured, some players are trying everywhere, some stand still. We are a faster, a side based on athletisicm instead of the Spanish skill to pass through us - so why are we playing so deep? If we could push them back into their own half with a high line, we'd have to rely on less long balls, while having fast and tall defenders to deal with what they try to get through or over that high line. Our passing technique isn't great so why keep it in the middle? And when we are going down the wings we have been more effective at getting closer to their box but the midfield aren't looking to get into the box for headers or passes - again if we pushed the defence up they wouldn't have to be so worried about keeping that space.
The improvement of the country's collective touch and pass technique is not going to improve over night but the tactical approach can. And then if you get that technique to work with a system already highlighting and integrating understood national strengths, we'd be doing so much better.
*Of course we need to catch up here too.
― WHO THE FUCK READS THE (a hoy hoy), Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:23 (twelve years ago) link
I should have also added that we do seem to create smart centre halves at the top level. Terry is pretty slow but you never notice it because he's always in the right place. Smalling also looks pretty smart and Rio's positioning is spot on most of the time. They are usually incredibly hard to pass through, whether they have a high line or sit deep.
― WHO THE FUCK READS THE (a hoy hoy), Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:26 (twelve years ago) link
your collective footballing outlook is mistrust of systems and percentages, and funnels respect more towards the moment of inspiration/brilliance rising from the mire of incompetence.
Your fans complain when centre halves and deeplying midfielders play it amongst themselves
The consistency of performance/touch/whatever from even your top players is alarmingly below the top spanish, dutch, german etc players
― ♪♫ hey there lamp post, feelin' whiney ♪♫ (darraghmac), Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:29 (twelve years ago) link
Yes
― WHO THE FUCK READS THE (a hoy hoy), Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:31 (twelve years ago) link
'keep it simple and give it to wayne/stevie' is still the default attitude, with only personnel changing.
English players are a certain type, fit a template, which very rarely changes once they sign their first professional contract, they don't ever seem to work on what doesn't come naturally to them imo.
― ♪♫ hey there lamp post, feelin' whiney ♪♫ (darraghmac), Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:33 (twelve years ago) link
― ♪♫ hey there lamp post, feelin' whiney ♪♫ (darraghmac), Sunday, 12 June 2011 20:29 (1 minute ago)
damn, thought you were going to finish with all of your friends are cunts, your mother is a ball-point pen thief
― http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WhiteAmericanFolks.jpg (nakhchivan), Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:34 (twelve years ago) link
darragh so basically you are saying why bother attempt change?
― WHO THE FUCK READS THE (a hoy hoy), Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:35 (twelve years ago) link
fwiw i've been watching england under 18/21 teams for along time now, and i don't think they lack talent at that level.
It's what happens after that that seems to hold ye back at international level?
― ♪♫ hey there lamp post, feelin' whiney ♪♫ (darraghmac), Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:35 (twelve years ago) link
lol xpost
― boxall, Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:35 (twelve years ago) link
I think it might be as simple as lack of resources. In Spain you have thousands of coaches all working to a plan that seems to have been developed over a couple of decades, in Germany the FA has big machinery behind it too. England has a fraction of the coaches, parents filling in the gaps, and so far as there is a plan it seems to be a handful of guys and/or incompetents either making things up (bad) or copying France or Spain or whoever's on top at the moment because that genuinely is the best possible option available.
As for developing a uniquely English style, everything I've read about Charles Reep makes going that way sound horrendous.
― Ismael Klata, Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:36 (twelve years ago) link
jeez, massive xps, must type faster
Finishing is "technical" too, this U21 team looks good in most respects but not that one.
― boxall, Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:37 (twelve years ago) link
fuck 'england' btw
there is no good 'england' and they will never be more than remedial cunts
― http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WhiteAmericanFolks.jpg (nakhchivan), Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:41 (twelve years ago) link
nah i'm saying your managers pick a shower of bad attitude spoiled brat cunts to represent the country, and the attitude of that group sucks complete ass.
Pick the u21 team for the next international, add dawson and a few other players untarnished by association with terry et al, then discipline them.
What they're hearing about themselves at their clubs and from the media is affecting them more than it does other countries, or at least other countries that produce similar levels of young talent. Dunno what to do about it, i think trap's having to deal with the start of a similar issue over here with mass dropouts and what have you.
― ♪♫ hey there lamp post, feelin' whiney ♪♫ (darraghmac), Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:41 (twelve years ago) link
you a Team GB man then? xpost
― Number None, Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:42 (twelve years ago) link
fuck the rest of them too
― http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WhiteAmericanFolks.jpg (nakhchivan), Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:42 (twelve years ago) link
Team British Isles, guys, get this Icelandic crop of youngsters involved
― Ismael Klata, Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:44 (twelve years ago) link
fuck everyone who cares
― http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WhiteAmericanFolks.jpg (nakhchivan), Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:44 (twelve years ago) link
oh no, turns out they're as rubbish as old Schteve
― Ismael Klata, Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:45 (twelve years ago) link
fuck ireland for being so much like england
― http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WhiteAmericanFolks.jpg (nakhchivan), Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:45 (twelve years ago) link
xxp yeah, i dunno where the english finishers have gone since owen.
Defoe used to have it, iirc, no idea who since then, and he's near 30
― ♪♫ hey there lamp post, feelin' whiney ♪♫ (darraghmac), Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:45 (twelve years ago) link
i don't mind iceland though
― http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WhiteAmericanFolks.jpg (nakhchivan), Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:46 (twelve years ago) link
Finishers aren't a thing anywhere anymore though
― Ismael Klata, Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:47 (twelve years ago) link
huh nakh's a provo now
Walker, mancienne, both centre halves, rose, both strikers all look good players in that first half
― ♪♫ hey there lamp post, feelin' whiney ♪♫ (darraghmac), Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:47 (twelve years ago) link
shane long's a finisher, in your face
Well sure attitude is a big fucked up chunk of the problem, like the lack of ability. But I was discussing TACTICS, fucker.
xpost
― WHO THE FUCK READS THE (a hoy hoy), Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:48 (twelve years ago) link
Hernandez
― Number None, Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:48 (twelve years ago) link
i think franny jeffers killed the finisher in england
― ♪♫ hey there lamp post, feelin' whiney ♪♫ (darraghmac), Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:48 (twelve years ago) link
doesn't really matter how many reasonably good players are elsewhere if there is no midfield at all, as covered upthread
Tragic Football Stories - Let us Kick Around the misshapen Jabulani that is English football right here
wilshere, scholes, hoddle and that's p much it
fabrice muamba is not a midfielder
― http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WhiteAmericanFolks.jpg (nakhchivan), Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:52 (twelve years ago) link
there's no point devising tactics for a shower with that attitude sam. Successive coaches since sven have discovered that.
Sven convinced this group that their personalities and desires mattered. Poison tbh.
― ♪♫ hey there lamp post, feelin' whiney ♪♫ (darraghmac), Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:53 (twelve years ago) link
fucker
― http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WhiteAmericanFolks.jpg (nakhchivan), Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:54 (twelve years ago) link
Higuain's the only finisher I can think of at the top level right now, and I'm probably doing him a disservice.
― Ismael Klata, Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:54 (twelve years ago) link
And Pippo of course.
Hernandez. I'll just keep posting it
― Number None, Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:55 (twelve years ago) link
higuain can finish but that doesn't make him a 'finisher' since he has other competencies too
― http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WhiteAmericanFolks.jpg (nakhchivan), Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:55 (twelve years ago) link
similarly klass jan huntelaar is 'a finisher' even if he scored 10 goals in the bundesliga
― http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WhiteAmericanFolks.jpg (nakhchivan), Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:56 (twelve years ago) link
Haha, he's more than that though. I'm talking guys who contribute goals and that's it.
― Ismael Klata, Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:56 (twelve years ago) link
hernandez is really
― http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WhiteAmericanFolks.jpg (nakhchivan), Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:57 (twelve years ago) link
saviola with guts
Falcao
― WHO THE FUCK READS THE (a hoy hoy), Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:57 (twelve years ago) link
I meant Hernandez is, not Huntelaar xp
― Ismael Klata, Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:58 (twelve years ago) link
The post that started this detour said they lack finishing (a skill) not "a finisher."
― boxall, Sunday, 12 June 2011 19:59 (twelve years ago) link