The Mike Leigh Poll

Yeah, Career Girls is mad underrated.

It is!

Also I was a huge Cure fan once upon a time so the all Cure sndtrk probably sucked me in some too. I'm gonna watch that again (and TT) this week.

The only "major" Leigh I don't care for is Naked, and I've watched it three times.

Yeah I'm not so big on Naked either tbh.

jed! i also thought the end of Happy-Go-Lucky was a nod to Celine and Julie, so glad it struck someone else the same way.

but i'm sort've surprised that ppl are reading the jim broadbent-ruth sheen cpl in AY as predictable 'good guys' - i felt the film took a more complex attitude towards them that, and by the end i wasn't sure how sympathetic or otherwise they were meant to be. you could easily present a reading of them as complacent, even cruel; i liked that ambiguity.

absolutely.

but i'm sort've surprised that ppl are reading the jim broadbent-ruth sheen cpl in AY as predictable 'good guys' - i felt the film took a more complex attitude towards them that, and by the end i wasn't sure how sympathetic or otherwise they were meant to be. you could easily present a reading of them as complacent, even cruel; i liked that ambiguity.

I agree! Said so upthread. Had the script and framing been different, their composure would have chilled me as much as Sally Hawkins'.

sorry alfred, sometimes it's difficult to read these threads as carefully as one should. i was reacting primarily to this:

But Jim Broadbent didn't get enough credit for making his Good Guy credible. We've all known guys like this: we look for the traces of condescension and can't find them.

jim broadbent in topsy turvy is so <3 OTMF! Irrascible yet playful - his pitch, as it were, is perfect.

I rather liked 'Naked' when I saw it but I have very little desire to ever do so again.

career girls is awful imo. naked doesn't do anything for me but i may revisit it.

hello ward! i agree with you about tom and gerri not being unambiguous - they way gerri is so cold towards mary when she shows up at the house unexpectedly rang very true though and made me feel (re. the discussion upthread) that leigh was actually making characters very close to himself in that instance - warm and cuddly initially on the surface but surprisingly brutal.

although, actually, i don't think they are the same. Tom is, i think, the kinder one whereas Gerri treats her personal relationships like an extension of her work: she turns it on and off although she's not aware of it. Maybe this is a much better film than I thought it was.

i agree with you about tom and gerri not being unambiguous - they way gerri is so cold towards mary when she shows up at the house unexpectedly rang very true though and made me feel (re. the discussion upthread) that leigh was actually making characters very close to himself in that instance - warm and cuddly initially on the surface but surprisingly brutal.

I got the sense that Leigh used a dramatic lacuna: something happened in those months, perhaps involving Gerri's growing realization of Mary's feelings for her son.

they way gerri is so cold towards mary when she shows up at the house unexpectedly rang very true though and made me feel (re. the discussion upthread) that leigh was actually making characters very close to himself in that instance - warm and cuddly initially on the surface but surprisingly brutal.

See, I don't buy this at all. Tom and Gerri had been EXTREMELY accommodating to Mary. But is someone really brutal or even cold to get upset when someone (esp. a someone like Mary) shows up unexpectedly? It's really rude and annoying and it's perfectly within anyone's right to get snippy about it. And even at that, Gerri doesn't kick her out and instead invites her to stay for dinner (it was dinner, right?). So how brutal/Mike Leigh-esque is she?

Tom and Gerri are the film's fulcrum, a support mechanism which explains their composure. But that doesn't mean there's no nuance or depth to their characters. They're not doormats for Mary to wipe her shoes on, for instance. If that were the case, then Gerri would have been totally fine with Mary showing up unannounced.

And I suppose if you see Tom and Gerri as brutal then it'd be simple to see them as alcoholics. But I honestly think that's incorrect and there's little in the film to support such a reading.

the thing is that gerri and tom have each other and the gentle lull of drinking together "just one more"/"oh okay then" is superficially contrasted with mary's tragic/alcoholic drinking on her own but it's fairly clear that leigh is showing them as drinking on a similar level. is it not, in fact, one of the techniques he's using to make you differentiate the sets of characters of throw your attitude towards them into relief, as it were?

I didn't see the pair of them as brutal or alcoholic. I also had no idea why they were so happy, and as my editor wrote in his review, Leigh isn't telling.

also -- and I admit this is a caricature of a caricature -- it's another "single people are a mess" film.

"or throw..."

I also had no idea why they were so happy

but they didn't seem abnormally happy.

is it not, in fact, one of the techniques he's using to make you differentiate the sets of characters of throw your attitude towards them into relief, as it were?

Yes, but the technique shows me that Tom and Gerri drink responsibly and Mary does not.

Even if they were raging alcoholics, though, I still don't see Gerri's reaction to Mary showing up unannounced as brutal or cold in the least. In fact, I'm showing up to YOUR place unannounced sometime this week and see how YOU react. :)

it's another "single people are a mess" film.

Ah now see, that's a negative critique of the film that I could buy.

xpost try me ;)

if i do agree with you it's because i think there's a fault in lesley manville's performance (and of course by extension in leigh's direction) in making mary too much to bear/too annoying right from the kick off. as soon as she appears on screen you know she's a mess and she never develops from that.

No way. Look at her face in that closing shot. She's finally starting to get it!

Not only that her life is a horrible mess but that these people are kinda assholes. They weren't too subtle in mocking her at that point.

I thought Leslie Manville gave an incredible performance in this film. My sympathy was definitely with her character. I was also confused why Ruth Sheen's character was so cold to her all of a sudden--besides the showing up unannounced, I think some stuff was cut.

Mike Leigh is hilarious in person. Every question from the audience is either the most brilliant and insightful interpretation of his work, or the most dunderheaded claptrap that a human ever dared to speak. I would never ask him anything!

Virginia Plain, address please.

Ahaha. It took me a while to get that.

Dr. M., what are some other examples of the "single people are a mess" micro-genre?

I really love Another Year.

I don't think it's solely a "single people are a mess" film, or at least it's as simple as that.

Also Gerri was cold to Mary because of the way she acted when she met Joe's girlfriend. Gerri and Tom (and everyone) knew exactly what happened, and they commented on it afterwards.

I don't think Tom and Gerri are alcoholics in the slightest.

DAMN, finally saw Vera Drake this morning (finally noticed it's on Netflix instant). It takes me a long time to see movies these days, even ones by my favorite directors. There are Herzogs and Greenaways (and other Leighs) from the 2000s that I've still not seen, which would have been unthinkable to 1990s me.

Tremendous movie. The kind where I have to spend the entire end credits sequence just staring and breathing and listening to the music. Top 5 Leigh, easy. Damn.

Also-- Career Girls is great; I can see why no one might vote it as their FAVORITE but it has absofkinlutely nothing to apologize for at all.

I saw T-T the other night for the umpteenth time. There has never been a time when I haven't stumbled upon this movie (at whatever point in the plot) and not been half-transfixed and pleased, and I've seen it many times.

this happens to me with so many Mike Leigh films - Secrets and Lies, Vera Drake, Abigail's Party. Even Another Year. I've only seen T-T once but i will see it plenty of times, i bet.

just turned 70

http://www.fandor.com/blog/daily-mike-leigh-70

I've been meaning to revisit some of his films, and finally get around to watching the ones I haven't seen. Secrets and Lies I found especially affecting when I first saw it, but I don't know whether it would hold up as well now; I think I'd be more aware of, and averse to, Mike Leigh's emotional manipulation and tendency towards pathetic stereotypes. I'm also baffled as to how Career Girls didn't receive any votes. It's such a great film: funny and warm and awkward and poignant, a kind of balm for me. Katrin Cartlidge gives what is one of my favourite performances ever.

I just watched "Another Year" on TV. Did anyone else find Tom and Gerri quite smug? Especially in their early exchange with Mary. I'm kind of in agreement with the poster above that Mary comes to a sudden realisation that her friends (and her own life of course) are not as amazing as she thought. She's falling apart silently at the table as they all bang on about how great their lives are. Overall, I really liked it.

yep, one of the things I love about the film is its unblinking eye on Tom and Gerri. Tom and his son are outright cruel to Mary at various parts of the film! that ending scene really sums it all up so well.

nice little recent mini-doc about Secrets And Lies. a bloody miracle of a film IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awU3_elyQMI

i watched secrets & lies and life is sweet on nonconsecutive days recently --

secrets & lies i liked; feels a little perfunctory or predictable or something, honestly prefer all or nothing/another yr/happy-go-lucky

life is sweet i ultimately did not even watch all the way thru, felt oppressively quirky & unrelatable idk; tim spalls entrance w/ the pineapple is classic tho

Mr. Turner: Magnetic Spall performance, revelatory moments, great ensemble as usual. Not upper tier Leigh on first viewing maybe. Some scenes go on a bit (John Ruskin as a Pythonesque Twit of the Century), 149 mins mighta been tightened.

Def need a disc w/ subtitles for second look. (Turner: GRRRRAEHHHLLLOOO)

Nice.

At the q and a, Tim Spall looked so normal and diminutive.

I'm so used to seeing him as a freakishly large and awkward presence.

The camera adds freakishness.

Topsy-Turvy, of course, my (r)entree to the others

Dick Pope said they shot this one by putting '50s lenses (that went on an Everest expedition, and were used for Kubrick's Spartacus) on a digital camera, which I never thought about being a possible thing.

I'm pretty fucking down for a mike Leigh film about Turner and Ruskin at least on the face of it

Ruskin is comic relief... def more about Turner in and of his world rather than a Great Artist Life.

Spall had a painting teacher for two years, off and on.

Dick Pope said they shot this one by putting '50s lenses (that went on an Everest expedition, and were used for Kubrick's Spartacus) on a digital camera, which I never thought about being a possible thing.

It's very much a thing now actually. Many digital cameras can be set up to take vintage glass. Lenses are probably the most perennial constant in photography in that if you have a good collection it will carry you through many cameras and platform changes.

amazin'

I have a friend who is a Director of Photography and in theory I could ask him about this but in practice he is kind of always bragging about his latest hightech gear- motorcycle, racing bike, kayak, Blu-ray (this last not the most high-tech, just the latest) that I am reluctant to do so.

Sorry, is there a tag for the kind of post that provides no useful information to the discussion but is just the poster venting?

/Earl_Camembert

perhaps.

*shoots a Floyd Robertson glare*

Haha! Exactly.