Sopranos - Season 3

Best thing is Pine Barrens episode.

"where is my knight in white satin armour?"

they loved this joke so much they use it twice!

"University" episode is definitely a high point - the brutalization/victimization of women seems to be a recurring theme in the entire season but that episode in particular, the way it juxtaposes Meadow and the dancer's dilemmas, is real genius.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, December 15, 2008 7:57 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

totally, and of course the title echoes "college"

also, ralphie sifforetto--most hateable sopranos character?

In that episode, yes.

In general, no.

who would you say then?

Beats me, I hated all of them pretty much by the end.

re-watching these, the only character I feel any real sympathy for is Adrianna. Materialistic and dimbulb-ish as she is, I think she's probably the only main character who's never shown doing something horrible to another person out of greed or malice.

Ralphie is a good character but kinda unconvincing as a hardened gangster. I mean, I don't for a second believe any of the other ultra-violent alpha-male pyschopaths in his circle would find someone like him threatening.

but yeah every major character on this show is pretty despicable in one way or another.

they all seem to find him a big nuisance--no one is really SCARED by him. also, they all acknowledge that despite that he's a really good earner.

xxxpost I think you could make that claim about Bobby too.

But that's pretty much about it yeah.

i admire how the show basically shows you how people like this probably are, which is totally unsympathetic and awful and petty and stupid

but it also makes them so unlikeable that it's kinda difficult to feel anything about what happens to them, though it's totally entertaining whenever something does happen.

xpost I admire that too. But I had a lot of trouble caring about them after a while.

Which is basically what you just said.

Bobby is pretty sympathetic. But then they make him do that totally pointless and brutal contract killing in season 6.

but it also makes them so unlikeable that it's kinda difficult to feel anything about what happens to them, though it's totally entertaining whenever something does happen.

fwiw while I do agree that in the main the show's characters are all horrible people, but the central conceit of the show is in many ways to trick the audience into identifying with, and in many cases, rooting for them ("hey! I have trouble raising my kids too!" or "man it sucks to be a teenager!" or "shit, I hate my job but damn I need the money" etc.) How well the show succeeds on that level is probably directly related to how much a given viewer appreciates the show.

That episode made me more sympathetic towards him, frankly.

ya. i mean the whole thing with this show is that it'll always pull the rug out from under you, especially when it comes to nice & cuddly mobsters.

i love when janice is dildo-ing ralphie and ro calls and ralphie talks to her like nothing's going on and after janice goes "we're so wacky. no regard for nothing."

Janice's rejection of Ralphie ("you didn't take off your shoes!" followed by pushing him down the stairs) is really funny. Although it is not entirely clear to me why she ditches him - is she really genuinely moved by Bobby's mourning, or is there some point where she realizes he'd be a better counter against Tony than Ralphie...?

Janice's rejection of Ralphie ("you didn't take off your shoes!" followed by pushing him down the stairs) is really funny. Although it is not entirely clear to me why she ditches him - is she really genuinely moved by Bobby's mourning, or is there some point where she realizes he'd be a better counter against Tony than Ralphie...?

― There was even a brief period when I preferred Sally Forth. (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, December 23, 2008 7:24 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

it comes right after ralphie ditches ro for her and wants to make it official... clearly it loses a bunch of the thrill now that she's not fucking someone else over

also, as her therapist points out, it's as much about a tony-substitute than it is about confronting tony

love her therapist's reaction when Janice tells her Bobby works for Tony

hahaha totally. "no, he's different!"

As I said on the other thread, I never liked Ralphie. Didn't like his name, didn't like his goofy blond hair, didn't like how he was introduced: He wasn't introduced, he was just there all of a sudden.

I really wish he had been kind of a small fry in rank, but somewhat untouchable because he was a huge earner - kind of like Pesci in Goodfellas - not some "made" guy who comes out of nowhere and starts going ballistic all of a sudden. I wish his story arc would have ended with Tony beating him to death outside the strip club after he killed the stripper.

I wish they would have dealt with the death of Tony's mother by starting season 3 out with them at her funeral. Flashbacks to previous conversations would have easily taken the place of those terrible CGI scenes.

He wasn't introduced, he was just there all of a sudden.

this is true and I thought this was kinda clumsy (although it DOES happen with other characters, altho none so central as Ralphie). Somewhere in S3 its mentioned that Ralphie had been in Miami, the implication being maybe he was in w/Little Carmine or something (which would also explain why he was initially tight with Johnny Sack)

"I wish they would have dealt with the death of Tony's mother by starting season 3 out with them at her funeral. Flashbacks to previous conversations would have easily taken the place of those terrible CGI scenes."

Amen except I still like the way season 3 actually begins with the awesome FBI trying to get the wiretap into the basement episode.

i dunno, i always got the sense of this huge web of people, connections, family, personalities... i liked that you didn't see everyone from the start, but that as things shift and the circle expands our changes more characters enter and leave. xp

"I wish they would have dealt with the death of Tony's mother by starting season 3 out with them at her funeral. Flashbacks to previous conversations would have easily taken the place of those terrible CGI scenes."

Amen except I still like the way season 3 actually begins with the awesome FBI trying to get the wiretap into the basement episode.

― Alex in SF, Tuesday, December 23, 2008 10:04 PM (58 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

also it's not nancy marchand gave them notice that she was going to die in advance

That'll be in contracts from now on.

I still like the way season 3 actually begins with the awesome FBI trying to get the wiretap into the basement episode.

this episode is really funny and contains Steely Dan's Dirty Work + Polish couple ("In Minsk I was a research engineer!") but its also clearly a placeholder episode in that nothing much really happens in it. I do like how the lamp becomes a running joke throughout the season, it gets ref'd a bunch of times.

i dunno, i always got the sense of this huge web of people, connections, family, personalities... i liked that you didn't see everyone from the start, but that as things shift and the circle expands our changes more characters enter and leave. xp

yeah, they make the most of this. There's one guy who shows up in Season 4 as a capo who's never even appeared before and then all of a sudden he's there in a meeting getting yelled at for not making enough money.

this guy

"He first appears in a meeting of Tony's crew in the first episode of Season 4, but there was no explanation as to where he came from and how he became part of the gang's inner circle. Carlo is not even directly referenced by name until the sixth season."

"but its also clearly a placeholder episode in that nothing much really happens in it."

Unlike every other episode in the season?!?

The payoff on the lamp is great!

it also directly leads to the chain of events that ends with them going after adriana...

Does it?

Unlike every other episode in the season?!?

I just mean that all the characters' relationships remain static throughout the episode. Majority of the episode is spent following the Keystone Kops' routine.

yeah they opt to pursue Adrianna via undercover agent cuz the lamp is a dead-end.

Oh yeah I guess that follows.

I wish they would have dealt with the death of Tony's mother by starting season 3 out with them at her funeral. Flashbacks to previous conversations would have easily taken the place of those terrible CGI scenes.

also it's not nancy marchand gave them notice that she was going to die in advance

Also it was only one two-minute scene. People blow it out of proportion. I'm not saying the episode wouldn't work without it, though, I think it would.

This is as good a thread as any to ask - can anyone who thinks the series drops off after this put into words why they think so? All I ever hear is that it "got boring" or that "the writing got worse" and I'm kinda confused by that. And I don't mean to challenge anyone personally with the q, just genuinely curious.

It is a very distracting two minute scene.

I don't think the show got worse, I just stopped caring as much about it and I think that was mostly a function of the fact that a certain point I grew very fatigued living with these characters (who let's face it are not exactly pleasant.) Was there a way the writers could have prevented this fatigue? Probably not or at least not without being untrue to the subject.

Also I think "boring" = the show went on for so long that it began to recycle plot points. Which is true to life obv, but doesn't always make for great for TV cuz after the umpteenth uh oh Tony has a problem with a guy who works for him or Carmela gets upset about Tony's infidelities or Chris slips up and starts using again it gets a little dull.

i think season 5 is incredibly strong, and season 6 has some amazing high points, and 7 is awesome.

Chris slips up and starts using again

Chrissie's an unrepetant user up through what, Season 5?

I didn't listen to the Steve Buscemi commentary (he directed) on "PB," but whoever winged out Paulie's frozen hair in the late scenes was a genius.

to wit

http://s3.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/8/7/8/2878.jpg

lol otm

I wonder how often younger fans research the pop references they have no business knowing, like Rogers-Evans above. Or when Tony calls Machiavelli "Prince Matchabelli."

Rogers-Evans doesn't seem that obscure to this Gen Xer, but the Matchabelli one I didn't catch (never heard of that brand - apparently still going though, so I dunno how much of an "old school" reference that is?)

They had highly visible TV ad campaigns in my (and Tony's youth) though.

my comedian friend did a private party last night and posted a photo of himself between Junior and Pussy.

!

lol @ Pussy's house being across from a graveyard

I think I miss my ferrets

"one-shoe cocksucker" is one of my favourite non-sequitur insults

I think tho it may be overlooked bcz it directly follows "Pine Barrens," "Amour Fou" is probably one of the very best episodes, from Carmela crying at the Met on.

In the last 2 episodes of this season, they end scenes by fading to black, which I don't remember seeing before, except for the last shot of most shows. What gives?

as opposed to just cutting to black?

No, forget the endings -- between scenes, unless I'm hallucinating, they would always do "hard cuts" from one sequence to another mid-show. Here, they fade to black on Jackie Jr and his goombah watching Basic Instinct on cable, then fade in on the next scene.

ah sorry I misread you. I didn't notice that particularly but I've kind of caught up to you in a re-watch and was thinking there were a number of things (edits/shot composition/etc) that made it feel like their visual game really steps up midway through S3 and into S4. Anyway yeah I'd agree that hard cuts are generally the rule, not sure why they would opt for fades at certain points all of a sudden.

This is kinda fascinating re the s3 finale "Army of One":

In the original 2001 broadcast, Agent Deborah Ciccerone was played by actress Fairuza Balk. However, due to scheduling conflicts, she was not able to return for season four. For the repeats and DVD releases, Balk was replaced by Lola Glaudini, who went on to play the role permanently in 2002.

Also this episode is a period piece; when the parents are arguing about sending AJ to military school, one of them (Tony?) says "The US military doesn't even go to war anymore."

The one episode directed by Mike Figgis in season 5 contains the most bizarre and jarring screen dissolve I've seen on television.

S3 is right before 9/11, right...?

One of my "things you can't find on the internet" is any screenshot or clip of Fairuza Balk playing the agent.

lol I can't find any hi-res shot/screen cap from the show of Paulie's resting bitchface, which is really bumming me out cuz I had a t-shirt design (similar to my Elliott Gould/Solid Gould shirt) in mind

good thing Chase wasn't producing Bewitched when they changed Darrens

S3 is right before 9/11, right...?

yes, season finished airing May 2001

Baccala refers to 9/11 in the season 4 premiere with one of the show's best malapropisms.

A buncha mob wives praising Hillary Clinton for “set(ting) up her own thing” -- rich

rewatching sopranos now for the first time since it was originally broadcast on uk tv. the start to middle of this season seems like the first lull of the show to me. and employee of the month and university being arguably the two most disturbing episodes so far and only being a few episodes apart is difficult watching.

didnt find it so

i have 2 or 3 eps to go here

... i think?

stopped watching 18 months ago

shit, i did see Jackie Jr get whacked. on to s4. i can't believe they kept Ralph Cifaretto going another year.

i don't mind ralphie. but the problem is he is so obviously telegraphed as a potential problem for tony - i think pauly or someone even mentions that he's so out of control there's a danger he might try something against tony - that it seems silly that tony doesn't get rid of him earlier. the rationale that is explained on several occasions is that he's a great earner, but that doesn't seem significant enough compared to the seriousness of the risks keeping him around entail

by earlier i mean he isn't around for the whole series, not trying to spoilerize

strikes me how similar jackie jr and matthew bevilaqua's arcs are, but jackie jr's wacking elicits much less sympathy

the Ralphie thing is pretty interesting, i think in the show his earning isn't just high but like extremely high, like he's for whatever reason exceptionally good at it while being bad at everything else. Also being a made guy, they can't just kill him without better reasons. And I do remember Patsy Parisi saying to someone after that if Ralph was killed "over a horse" (which was the rumor, though i think anyone watching realizes Tony did it at least partially bc of Tracee) then any of them could be killed for any reason. Which I do actually think comes into play a bit over the final stretch of the show, maybe even specifically w/Patsy (if you believe that very convincing blog analyzing the end of the show, the link to which I've lost.)

this is the patsy kills tony theory?

yeah...i'd have to rewatch to see if it has any merit but it makes sense as much as anything else. I don't think the reason for Tony getting killed (which he did let's face it) was something that was supposed to be unknown, that doesn't seem like Chase's M.O. I think viewers just have to do a little digging. Keeping in mind I didn't do any digging, it was done for me; hat theory seemed to be based on extremely close and intelligent analysis though!

i think Chase is quite happy with ambiguity in the Sopranos.

ambiguity can be a good thing, and it def was in this case

Tony had a lot of enemies and led a life that required him to be constantly looking over his shoulder cuz he knew at any time some random thing he had done could come back and lead to his demise. Patsy is just one of many in that respect.

if anything the ending is about *that* - the constant paranoia, fear and tension (even in moments of apparent respite), death ever-present

I think it’s def ambiguous and great bc of it. But I think Chase had a notion in his mind of who and why, at least a backstory that we may very well see peeking into the main narrative. That doesn’t mean it’s supposed to be solved, or anything. There are red herrings too.

I had no idea that "I Saved the World Today" (which is used at the end of Season 2 but whatever) was a Eurythmics song from the fuckin 90s! I thought it was Supertramp or something

― Force Boxman (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 2 November 2012 02:09 (six years ago)

Same.

Just finished watching from 6a/b (which I hadn't seen) through round to the end of this season.

Ending it with that Aphex Twin track is an amazing note to hit in terms of music placement, and I'm not the biggest SAW II stan.

FINALLY.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rff7-6ejd9Q

Big reason why the Sopranos is great: Chase made a point to do all the things networks never let him do. For example, he has a vicious hatred of 'walk and talk' scenes. They mean nothing. The scene has to be grounded in place. So he banned them.

— Justin Sherin (@wychstreet) June 20, 2020

i would love for someone to make a compilation video of all the times someone gives an obv lie of an excuse and leaves the room so two people can have a private conversation - one of my fav running gags in the history of television

Furio: "I gotta make two phone call"

“Let’s get back to the gabagool”

Bracco rules

I wonder if Bracco was considered for the Carmela role
I think she could have brought another level to the role
Falco is talented but a little one dimensional. Or is that the role?

Rolo Tony fuck

“So I told him…take those Duncan shiek records and shove em up your ass”