Star Trek: Classic or Dud?

Ha, I loved that one!

"But there's no suggestion that they intended the DS9 universe to be a product of another character's imagination a la Bob Newhart was dreaming/Lost was in purgatory, etc."

I read somewhere they were about to put in an endcap scene where he looks in the window and sees his true reflection as Benny, suggesting exactly that! But they backed out at the last second.

'I thought the idea of the Borg was that they were programmed with a basic set of instructions and precepts and axioms and what not so that they would all come to the same "right" conclusion on what to do in any given situation.'

That wasn't the Borg; that was RoboCop! And even then four directives were too much to handle.

The reflection scene was included in the first Benny episode.

but then... that means... ....

The whole episode was ambiguous and open to interpretation. There was a lot of blurring of what was reality and what was vision, so it could be interpreted any which was you wish.

Is DS9 worth watching all the way through? I gave up on it somewhere in the 2nd season in its initial run.

somewhere after 2nd season it turned into a war opera, and it wasn't terrible, but some of the producer guys later did the battlestar galactica reboot and 24, and they kind of recycled a lot of the material from DS9 in it, so if you've seen the new BSG or Kiefer fighting terrorists, that's kind of what DS9 was. Fine enough as religious war epic, but religious war epic doesn't exactly embody Trek very well.

not to say that the spirit of Trek was totally absent -- there was a sub-arc about the Ferengi turning from a society of Reagan Capitalists to Al Gore-ian Socially Responsible Entrepreneurs.

lol nice. I've watched some BSG (S1) & enjoyed it, but not sure that I want to see the same themes played out at a Trekian pace.

Yeah, BSG did war and politics much better, building on what was done in DS9. Still, DS9 ended up being my favorite ST series, even it does feel pretty dated now (though you can say that for pretty much all the ST series).

DS9 is all the dark, murky stuff that Star Trek tried not to wallow in...thats why I love it. The opening face-off between Sisko & Picard never stops being awesome no matter how many times I see it, and I think sets the tone for the whole series.

Was it really Picard, or Locutus? (I don't know why I'm challenging anyone on this because I've never seen the early seasons of DS9.)

it was Picard.

DS9 is all the dark, murky stuff that Star Trek tried not to wallow in...thats why I love it. The opening face-off between Sisko & Picard never stops being awesome no matter how many times I see it, and I think sets the tone for the whole series.

OTM

IIRC it was Picard shortly after he was unBorged, so he was really pissed off. Or maybe Sisko was pissed off bc Picard had something to do with the decision that led to Jennifer's death? Or both.

Benjamin Sisko is one of my favorite TV characters. I love him so.

Sisko is the shit. Love him.

TS:
Sisko with hair, without goatee
vs.
Sisko with hair, with goatee
vs.
Sisko with no hair, with goatee

no hair, goatee

sisko with fangs, sisko with glasses are the top siskos. but most of the time it's a pretty dull role.
weyoun, dukat have way more opportunities to ham it up.

buffy tvs also did an episode where buffy might be in a mental institution. at the end of the episode it turns out she really was insane and that the rest of the series was the illusion. then they never mentioned it again.

that was hysterical. they did it just to piss off fanboys I think.

Well then:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXWEM4gZhg4

Bet that's not as good the Nimoy/Bad Brains video.

as good as

Youtube user kickslashspock

Sisko was one serious over-enunciator.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS4L8owZinw

Jeri Ryan interviewed on the latest Nerdist podcast

just laughed hard at the end of "the return of the archons", when kirk talks a civilization-controlling computer into self-destructing, peers at the smoking husk, turns to the confused and frightened guards (newly liberated from the hypnosis they were born into), says "well, you're on your own now; hope you're up to it", and beams up.

earlier in the episode, while kirk is planning the coup, spock broaches the awkward subject of the prime directive and gets snapped at.

Shatner has a TV special (he directed!) where he interviews the other ST captains. Would like to see it just for Patrick Stewart's panic.

http://tv.nytimes.com/2011/07/22/arts/television/william-shatner-in-the-captains-review.html

would watch the shit out of that, although it's too bad he doesn't appear to interview them on his specially designed honesty couch.

oh, man. that looks great. picard in his 70s and looking good!

watched some hour long interview between shatner and nimoy a year or two ago. netflix had on dvd at the time and it was called trek talk or something dumb like that. LOADS of batshit stuff but my fave part was when they were talking about how they fell out with some of the cast. guessing that was just shatner, not aware of any nimoy beefs.

anyway, shatner's theory was that these "minor" characters - who were never the focus of the show bc they weren't part of the big three (kirk, spock, bones, duh) - had their egos inflated by fans at conventions. they no longer recognized their place, essentially. yeah, that must be it, shatner!!!

Hearing the engineer’s story, Mr. Shatner says, has cured him of his long-standing embarrassment about playing Capt. James T. Kirk.

so embarrassed was William Shatner that he did it for 3 tv seasons, 1 animated spin-off, 7 films, at least 2 computer games i can think of etc etc

It's so sad people remember Star Trek and not his serious acting work.

Nimoy had quite a rocky relationship w/ Roddenberry, it seems.

for best non-Kirk Shat role, I'd have to take Corman's The Intruder over Twilight Zone. (never saw Boston Legal... or The Brothers Karamazov!)

shatner is supposed to have pushed for rewrites to keep the secondary parts small, no? uhura in particular (big surprise i guess) gets a line like once every four episodes.

harlan ellison published his original version of 'the city on the edge of forever' which i picked up a while ago, mostly for the 100+ page preface wherein ellison recounts every beef he had with just about everyone involved with star trek; i've only skim read it for now but came across an episode where supposedly shatner went to see ellison ostensibly for social reasons but really to check out the script and count the number of his lines vs those of nimoy

george takei was pretty scathing about shatner in his book, too.

Yeah I read one of Shatner, Roddenberry, or Takei as a kid. Highly suspect it was Takei because my parents were more prone to buying me books written by non-whites. (I have some great jazz bios we could do on ilm.) I really, really strongly remember reading a book that talked shit about Shatner. Also it could have been Shatner's own book and maybe my interpretive skills were stronger as akid than I thought.

Well yeah, I think just about EVERYONE except nimoy hated shatner. Guy seems insane!

Damn, I don't think I was ready to see all the white in Avery Brooks's goatee. :(

The Sisco ages.

just laughed hard at the end of "the return of the archons", when kirk talks a civilization-controlling computer into self-destructing

Also it could have been Shatner's own book and maybe my interpretive skills were stronger as akid than I thought.

Shatner's two Trek autobios are largely comprised of his ghostwriter interviewing the other actors at length about what a dick Shatner was, and then interviewing Shatner reacting in ruminative surprise at their resentments

Whenever there's a website login checkbox for "Remember Me", I mentally hear/say Spock's "Remember" from The Wrath of Khan.

Avery Brooks, styling it up at conventions:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/AveryBrooksAtConvention_crop.jpg/524px-AveryBrooksAtConvention_crop.jpg

If they ever want to make another Blade movie where Blade's dad shows up (like Connery/Ford in Last Crusade), then they know who to call.

If any of you enjoy Star Trek novels, I highly recommend the Destiny Trilogy.

Two seasons of Star Trek all at once:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YS8OGMbj1kg

Amazing how many of those are close ups on someone going "whuh?"