even if he'd read a NYT article verbatim it's a halfwitted song.
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:10 (twelve years ago) link
I dunno, I take it as a given that pop music is going to involve the stupid romanticization of thugs, it's a pretty ancient lyrical conceit.
― metally ill (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:13 (twelve years ago) link
the song (which I am listening to RIGHT NOW) is interminable and pretty boring tho
― metally ill (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:14 (twelve years ago) link
there are two versions of "Forever Young" on Planet Waves, right? i like the fast one.
― I'm 11 and I love Gay Dad. Today's music is so formulaic its appalling. (will), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:14 (twelve years ago) link
xp yeah, i mean, as far as stupid romanticization of thugs, dylan wrote a whole album about billy the kid. (and i love that album)
― tylerw, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:15 (twelve years ago) link
On the other Dylan thread, i suggested that "Dark Eyes" make this list.
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:16 (twelve years ago) link
^PG & BTK is one of my faves of his from the 70s. I know it's 60% filler. But it's damn good filler.
― I'm 11 and I love Gay Dad. Today's music is so formulaic its appalling. (will), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:17 (twelve years ago) link
Well, the difference is that the cowboy era is already suffused with enough mythos to allow him some wiggle room. Gallo is one of those guys at the bar in Goodfellas.
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:17 (twelve years ago) link
so comedy acceptable romanticization = tragedy + time
― metally ill (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:20 (twelve years ago) link
I could write extended remarks on aging hippies, in an attempt to stay relevant and hold fast to their weird obsession with heroes and martyrs, picking dumb subjects for songs in the seventies and eighties.
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:20 (twelve years ago) link
would so pay to watch Alan Alda play Gallo.
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:21 (twelve years ago) link
picking dumb subjects for songs in the seventies and eighties.
oh man can we make a poll out of this
― metally ill (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:22 (twelve years ago) link
Patti Smith and Dylan would crowd the competition.
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:25 (twelve years ago) link
i dunno, i guess i think of "joey" as an exercise in mythmaking -- like dylan *knows* it's bullshit in the same way he knows that billy the kid is kinda bullshit. but the larger than life idea of these guys in the imagination and in song, that's what he's interested in. has dylan ever been interested in "facts"? maybe i'm giving him too much credit. it's not like my fave song or anything, but i think just taking it at face value, saying dylan thinks joey gallo was a rad, admirable dude, might be a mistake. also, i like the opening lines: Born in Red Hook Brooklyn in the year of who knows whenOpened up his eyes to the tune of an accordionAlways on the outside whatever side there wasWhen they asked him why it had to be that way "Well" he answered "just because".
― tylerw, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:26 (twelve years ago) link
My list of Dylan's ten worst, in no order:
1. The Times They Are A-Changin'2. Disease of Conceit3. Lenny Bruce4. Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands5. Ballad in Plain D6. Joey7. Mozambique8. Is Your Love in Vain?9. Neighborhood Bully10. Rainy Day Women
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:30 (twelve years ago) link
i dunno, i guess i think of "joey" as an exercise in mythmaking
i think everyone does, people just debate whether it's a good one
― da croupier, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:33 (twelve years ago) link
and it's a little facetious to say "has dylan ever been interested in facts?" when we're talking about a song on the same album as "hurricane"
― da croupier, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:37 (twelve years ago) link
that sonofabitch is BRAVE AND GETTIN' BRAVER!
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:40 (twelve years ago) link
well, hurricane ain't exactly factually correct either ...is that what you mean? didn't he have to go to court to explain some of the writer's license he and levy took with that song?
― tylerw, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:43 (twelve years ago) link
He cared about the fact that a guy was in jail for reasons he felt were wrong. To say he's not being lazy, but 'just playing with myths' is undercut by the actual protest song on the album.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:45 (twelve years ago) link
haha just looked at the wikipedia page for "joey" and totally forgot about the song being inspired by dylan having dinner with Gallo pal Jerry Orbach.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:53 (twelve years ago) link
you would write that song too if you had lunch with jerry orbach.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:56 (twelve years ago) link
yeah but I would write a song about Jerry Orbach instead!
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 17:01 (twelve years ago) link
jerrrrry jerrrrry, what made them want to put your baby in a corrrrner...?
― tylerw, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 17:02 (twelve years ago) link
also do vinyl pressings of Desire totally suck or what? can't believe they could actually fit 30 minutes on side 2
I was fixing to ask about this. I've only known the album on cd, and always wondered what it took to squeeze 56 minutes on a piece of vinyl. At the same time you wish that Dylan or whoever said "Fuck it--let's make a double", so the album could have room for classic outtake stuff like "Abandoned Love", "Golden Loom", "Catfish" etc.
― Handjobs for a sport (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 17:14 (twelve years ago) link
i'd support a double album of desire stuff -- those outtakes are great. rita mae, too.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 17:15 (twelve years ago) link
Was there ever a studio version of "Seven Days"?
― Handjobs for a sport (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 17:17 (twelve years ago) link
not that i know of -- there's a desire sessions bootleg with this tracklist: Disc 1:01. Rita May02. Romance In Durango03. Catfish04. Money Blues05. Abandoned Love06. Golden Loom07. Oh Sister08. Sara09. Isis10. Oh Sister11. One More Cup Of CoffeeDisc 2:01. Black Diamond Bay02. Mozambique03. Hurricane04. Rita May05. Rita May06. Joey07. Hurricane
― tylerw, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 17:20 (twelve years ago) link
Cool. Thanks!
― Handjobs for a sport (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 17:22 (twelve years ago) link
The best thing about Desire is the descriptor "Desire-era Dylan", which was mysterious & alluring to me in the early to mid 90s when I hadn't yet heard Desire but read a fair bit of "Americana" music press using that term. I guess it refers to long songs with vaguely "gypsy" instrumentation & male-female vocals. The worst thing about Desire: well, you guys are doing a good job of recounting the many candidates for me.
― Euler, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 17:25 (twelve years ago) link
I'm curious to read you guys' picks for worst Dylan. Post'em!
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 17:31 (twelve years ago) link
there's so much I've never listened to...
― metally ill (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 17:32 (twelve years ago) link
once more with feeling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvIgb8cx6JE
― da croupier, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 17:33 (twelve years ago) link
I mean do I really want to listen to Froggy Went a Courtin...
― metally ill (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 17:33 (twelve years ago) link
"Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands"? Ouch. Not as good as "Desolation Row," pretty great anyway.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 17:34 (twelve years ago) link
here are my picks1. lenny bruce2. ballad in plain d3. no time to think4. property of jesus5. ugliest girl in the world6. clean cut kid7. neighborhood bully8. i shall be free no. 10
that's all i can think of! would definitely skip all of those.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 17:41 (twelve years ago) link
ok, here are my picks for worst Dylan songs:
1. "The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll"2. "Ballad of a Thin Man"3. "Who Killed Davey Moore?"4. "If Dogs Run Free"5. "One More Cup Of Coffee (Valley Below)"6. "Talkin' World War III Blues"7. "Joey"8. "The Times They Are A Changin'"9. "Disease Of Conceit"10. "With God On Our Side"
― Euler, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 17:46 (twelve years ago) link
"Lenny Bruce" was a runner-up for me.
― Euler, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 17:47 (twelve years ago) link
wow, at least three of those -- 'hattie carroll,' 'cup of coffee,' and maybe 'with god on our side' -- would be in my all-time top 10 dylan joints.
my list:
1. chimes of freedom (totally leaden)2. new pony (creepiest dylan lyrics ever)3. lily, rosemary and the jack of hearts (not terrible, but really breaks the mood on BOOT)4. gotta serve somebody (i actually kind of enjoy this for a couple of minutes, usually, but man does it last too long)5. blowin' in the wind (pretty feeble, considering how famous it is)
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 18:04 (twelve years ago) link
2. new pony (creepiest dylan lyrics ever)
Not the only tune on Street Legal for which this applies.
I relistened to it last night: not bad. It's got that dirty rhythm guitar lick and the Dylanettes wailing "How much longer?"
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 18:06 (twelve years ago) link
joey times a fucking million
― 69, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 18:06 (twelve years ago) link
xp yeah i think hattie carrol is probably one of the most powerful of his finger pointing stuff.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 18:06 (twelve years ago) link
prob that's why I hate it so much---on the whole I think protest Dylan is dire
― Euler, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 18:08 (twelve years ago) link
Bryan Ferry spoiled "A Hard Rain" for us all.
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 18:10 (twelve years ago) link
I also hate all the takes on Another Side but I think most of those songs are redeemed by later version or covers, so I didn't pick those.
― Euler, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 18:10 (twelve years ago) link
I'm probably the rare person who doesn't like the sound of "Ballad of a Thin Man." Great lyrics, but one of my least favorite from the three middle-period records.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 18:11 (twelve years ago) link
Not "middle-period"...you know which three I mean.
'ballad of a thin man' is prob the best dylan song i never, ever need to hear again.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 18:12 (twelve years ago) link
i'm not nuts about it on hwy 61, but the live versions from live 66 & bootlegs from that tour are unbelievable.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 18:13 (twelve years ago) link
xpost: that's a good way to put it.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 18:14 (twelve years ago) link