Depression and what it's really like

Well the rain certainly isn't helping, but the bigger issue was being told by our real estate agent last night that its pretty much hopeless for us to sell our house right now. Which, fine, market sucks blah blah, but the reason I'm depressed is because we now have to face up to the very real fact that we will be bringing our baby home to a house right next door to literal drug-dealing murdered. And the fact that I am powerless to change things is crushing me right now. I feel like an utter failure.

DL, I would probably be a little confrontational with the friend. "I know you're dealing with emotional issues, but I have yes/no questions and I just want to get some yes/no answers. I'm not a mind-reader -- if there's something you're mad at me about, I haven't figured out what it is yet, let's deal with it separately. In the meantime, are you doing a set Friday?" It doesn't diminish their real unhappiness and/or perceived grievances, but it also says "the world needs you to deal with it on somebody else's terms for a few minutes, just for a few minutes."

xp aha

xp But that's not your fault at all - that's the wider world at work. But I can understand what a drag it must be.

Yeah, I think that might be along the right lines WmC.

Oh jon. :( People have brought their babies home to much, MUCH worse places. At least you own this one, fwiw, and it's private and only your little family will live there. Anyway, the kid won't remember anything until they're at least two, so you've still got a couple of years to figure this out.

I mean, who does this situation affect? Your baby, who won't remember. Your wife...how does she feel? And you, who are beating yourself up for some kind of social expectation that's built on a whole other kind of economy/world than we life in.

Laurel is OTM here. This is not a reflection on you Jon.

^^^

I understand that on a rational, logical level, but I'm having hard time not seeing it as some sort of failure on my part on a more emotional level. Its not really the memories that concern me, its that we've had to call the cops on them for violent fistfights in our front yard, gunshots, and we still have a bullet hole in the brick on the side of our house from several years ago. Its really scary to think that, no matter how nurturing of an immediate environment we provide, that there is this wild card out there completely out of our control.

Also, if you spend this time feeling sorry for yourself and ruminating on your failures, you are going to be feeling horrible and lose out on the lead-up to the birth of your and your wife's first child. That would really be a shame. ;_;

In the nicest way, because I need to have my head jogged like this ALL THE TIME, I'm trying to say that this time in your life is not about you and your success or failure. I believe that you mean only the best, but the thing to do is to be emotionally present right now, and appreciative of the wealth of things you DO have, and fix this spring and these days and this excitement into your memory so you can have beautiful stories for your child of the days when you longed for her to be born so you could meet her.

Your child won't be going outside or playing in the yard or walking to school for a while yet. You have time. Slow down and be, maaaan.

want to say something encouraging, but laurel's handling that better than i ever could, so yeah, what she said

Living in circumstances that concern you can be deeply troubling. Never lived next door to full-on gangsters, but I have rented next to some pretty scary/threatening people and I know it's tough because even in your own home it's hard to feel at ease. I think a lot of depression comes from a sort of a state of - perhaps quite rational - "constant worry". Rather than coming home and relaxing, you're on edge because you're subconsciously wondering what next door will get up to next.

Stuff like this has left me quite low and irritable in my own life. I start worrying that my "future self" won't be able to handle the situation if and when it happens, whatever that situation may be. And that theoretical situation starts snowballing in my mind - I start thinking about the worst case scenario and almost convincing myself it will happen at some point in time. So I go round worrying about not if but when it'll happen - not a good state of mind. This is amplified by a frustration at not being able to affect the situation in a positive way, giving way to irrational feelings of uselessness.

The thing is, in my experience the worst case scenario never takes place at all, and all the pain and worry turns out to be for nought. Any issues sort themselves out, for better or worse. You have to remind yourself that you have all the time in the world to sort your existence out and that you can't do this all in one day.

Meh, don't know if that's anything like how you feel. I'm just chatting breeze now.

No dog latin, you've pretty much nailed it on the head exactly. After some of the early issues we had with the neighbors, I relaxed a little thinking, well, we've dealt with the worst and moved on, so it can't be that bad. But when someone was murdered, well, I went back to that constant state of anxiety and its just increased lately. Which is why we were doing everything in our power to sell our house because, as you kind of hint at, even if nothing ever happens it is still no fun living in a constant state of worry and anxiety.

the someone who was murdered was someone involved in the next door situation, no? these things rarely reach strangers. I'd rather live near drug dealers than junkies - do you know any details about them?

Yeah, it was a friend of one of the guys who lived there who was killed, so I realize its extremely unlikely that anything will directly be aimed at us. But, on the other hand, a larger concern is that they frequently have "visitors" really strung out on something or other screaming on their (and our) front yard, brandishing firearms, etc etc. I mean, I'm not afraid of being a direct victim, but what scares me more than anything is that it just takes one stray bullet...

Be grateful for everything.

Its advice like "be grateful for everything" that makes me think I'm wired wrong or whatever, because, no, sorry, I just can't be "grateful" to be living next door to criminals.

you have a house, a job and a family! many people your age do not.

Jon, you'll sort this out eventually one way or another. It might take a wee while, but you're not stuck there forever. At the bleakest of times one tends to feel doomed, like "what if this is it? what if I have to spend my whole life in this situation?" Like the time I lost my job and a huge bill came through that I just couldn't pay. Suddenly I entered panic mode - visions of bailiffs kicking down my door and ejecting me from my house to die in the cold etc... This thought process took 5 minutes to work through my mind in its entirety - and it was incredibly distressing, I felt hopeless. But one way or another I found a way. It took three months to get a new job and a further year to recover financially from that time.
Point is, in retrospect that memory feels like a snapshot of my misery and worry - I feel detached from it now, because I know I took practical steps to resolve it. On that day, if someone had told me "oh you'll be fine in a year" I'd probably have freaked out, but now it feels like a blip in an otherwise regular state of normalcy.

is it at all possible to rent your house and move into an apartment in a safer location

DJP, I would assume there's a possibility but the fact there are (criminal/drug addicted) neighbours next door won't up the chances of renting it out.

you have a house, a job and a family! many people your age do not.

I am not singling you out, but this line doesn't really help people with depression.It actually worsens it. It makes them feel guilty.I can only say that, if depression inhibits your life/work/...; then you should address the problem with therapy and/or medication.

DJP, we have seriously looked into that, but given the rental rates for houses in our area right now, we wouldn't make enough to cover the mortgage and the rent (well, perhaps, but we'd have to throw away our down payment savings to do so). So, at least at this point, we just have to wait it out.

then you should address the problem with therapy and/or medication.

I'm doing this (first part anyway, at this point), but I'm shocked by how sudden and strong this feeling has hit me.

jon, that sucks. I mean could you absorb a hit if you sold the house for less than market value, just to get the f out of there?

Well, we're already priced to take a sizable hit, but we really don't have a whole lot more room to give.

and even at the lower price the realtor is convinced you cant sell? One thing, dont let him/her tell you what to do, you own the house...

See, that kind of strikes to the point of the issue, our agent is really being pushy and (we think) dishonest about what we need to price at. We've had seven showings in the last three weeks (which, from what I hear is actually really good!), but she keeps sending us these really pessimistic, negative emails about the "continuin market downslide" and pressuring us to lower it to ridiculous levels. I mean, I appreciate she's an expert on these things and maybe the market really is that awful, but she keeps comparing us to properties that aren't even in the same ballpark. Thats part of my frustration, because I feel she is doing a horrible job of helping us out.

so can her and get someone else...ever thought about trying to sell it on your own...save you a bunch in commissions and this douchebags attitude.

We'd love to, but as per the agreement we signed, we'd have to pay her a not insignificant fee + marketing costs in order to get out of it right now. We're debating just how worth it that would be right now.

stupid question: if you were to rent the place out and take a rental of your own, you wouldn't need the rental income to cover your new rent AND your mortgage payment, right? you're already paying the mortgage, so all you'd need is for rent in to cover rent out.

i'm sure i've misunderstood your previous post on that question...

previous post says that he can't rent for the current mortgage amount, so they'd likely be paying more when combining covering the mortgage and paying rent on a new place

Jon, I am happy you are addressing it. Things will get better.

your agent sounds like a snake. how did you find her?

it might be worth it for your sanity alone. yeah and what type of contract did you sign with her that you have to pay her for not selling your house? weird.

Honestly, she's not so much a snake as someone who views us as a really insignificant player in her overall scheme. We're small fish and she doesn't see us as being worth her time, which is frustrating, to be treated like a business decision instead of people. My mother-in-law is a real estate agent in Michigan and one of her coworkers who used to live in our area recommended her.

what type of contract did you sign with her that you have to pay her for not selling your house? weird.

From what I understand, its a fairly common agreement that if we (the sellers) cancel for whatever reason, we have to pay for the marketing costs. If it doesn't sell within a year, we are off the hook without any costs, just before it lapses that we have to pay.

is that common in chi? we didn't do that out here when we sold our condo. of course that was 6 years ago, maybe things changed since the market went in the shitter. how much longer do you have for the year to be up?

Seven and a half months, right now.

wait, seven and a half left? ugh.

Yeah, that's real-estate SOP. But I can imagine just about every agent out there in a Glengarry Glen Ross presure cooker now, willing to sacrifice a few hundred off their 3% to bump up the volume of properties they move, no matter that it sacrifices a few thousand out of their clients' pockets.

Anyway, this isn't the "real estate agents and what they're really like" thread, so I'm going to stop talking about that stuff itt. I appreciate those of you talking this through, I'm just wishing I was able to approach how I'm feeling in a more rational/sensible way, without feeling like I've failed my family.

jon, you didn't fail your family at all. Dont look at it that way.

^^^ really, you haven't. nor yourself.

I've had this book thrown at me recently (the depression has gotten really bad lately, and I'm existentially terrified of SSRIs and the like because I don't seem to create experiential memories when I'm on them) and it's really helpful for exactly the kind of thing you're talking about.

http://www.amazon.com/Learned-Optimism-Change-Your-Mind/dp/0671019112

It's a little bit self-helpy, little ew capitalism at one point, but the guy who wrote it is a former APA President and he goes out of his way to make sure that you know that everything he's talking about or telling you to do is based in good, peer-reviewed science.

jon, you didn't fail your family at all. Dont look at it that way.

yeah, exactly. you're doing everything possible for your family, it's just that the world won't cooperate - at the moment.

yeah jon, I think your own expectations of yourself & what constitutes failure are a lot different and skewed more harshly than your own family...I know it doesnt help much, but it's far worse inside your own head right now, and taking baby steps back from the ledge by slowly knowing that you arent to blame, that you are loved, that there are things you can control
You, your baby, your family...you will be okay. will. be okay

WHoa I just checked the Seligman book out from the library a few days ago.

xpost Yes. Exactly. Also, Jon, would you expect the same of your wife of someone else? You are putting way too high expectations on yourself. You can't control this (completely).

xp There's another Seligman book called 'Authentic Happiness' which is pretty good as well.