Purported original ending to Election (I can't watch this right now, but it appears to be closer to the novel's):
http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2011/05/thats_an_apolog.php
― resistance does not require a firearm (Dr Morbius), Monday, 16 May 2011 14:31 (twelve years ago) link
That's pretty awful, though it does underscore Tracy's vulnerability a bit more. How does the book end?
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 16 May 2011 15:44 (twelve years ago) link
wow way more feel-good-y. actual ending is definitely funnier, if harsher.
― american thinker (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 16 May 2011 16:28 (twelve years ago) link
see above, ie the novel's ending is at least superficially closer to this unused one
― resistance does not require a firearm (Dr Morbius), Monday, 16 May 2011 16:39 (twelve years ago) link
ive never been that big of a laura dern fan but damn does she own in citizen ruth -- "i slept in some dumpsters, maybe i slept on some babies"
― johnny crunch, Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:35 (twelve years ago) link
yeah that movie kills imo but i think this little yupster is p dope even 'sideways' isnt that bad honestly
― Lamp, Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:42 (twelve years ago) link
otm i like abt schmidt a lot more than most ppl do
― johnny crunch, Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:46 (twelve years ago) link
so yeah he has that new george clooney movie coming out later this year
― by another name (amateurist), Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:56 (twelve years ago) link
so yeah the trailer is like NPR Sense of Humor: The Movie
― smells like PENGUINS (remy bean), Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:57 (twelve years ago) link
i know! i hope it's good anyway.
― by another name (amateurist), Sunday, 7 August 2011 18:03 (twelve years ago) link
I saw that trailer the other day too and was disappointed to see Payne's name at the end. I like Election and Sideways a lot (About Schmidt, no).
― clemenza, Sunday, 7 August 2011 18:06 (twelve years ago) link
I'm holding out hope, but I think at some point he's gonna need to address the super-whiteness of his oeuvre. I mean, he's the honkiest guy this side of Tim Burton.
― smells like PENGUINS (remy bean), Sunday, 7 August 2011 18:38 (twelve years ago) link
what do you mean by "need to address the super-whiteness of his oeuvre"?
― by another name (amateurist), Sunday, 7 August 2011 18:58 (twelve years ago) link
Ingmar Bergman had that problem too.
― clemenza, Sunday, 7 August 2011 18:59 (twelve years ago) link
http://www2.alibris-static.com/cover/v44182t6433.jpg
― Scharlach Sometimes (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 7 August 2011 19:10 (twelve years ago) link
the pilot for Hung is kind of my 2nd favorite Payne flick after Election
― Autism Alamac (some dude), Sunday, 7 August 2011 19:26 (twelve years ago) link
what do you mean by "need to address the super-whiteness of his oeuvre"
just that his films are really, really white-bread. i mean i get that he is chronicling some caucasian midwestern-ish shit, but his only prominent characters of color (that I can remember) are (1) an exotic asian love interest (2 ) a starving african boy. i'm not calling him out for racist or anything, just noting that there are, like, certain... omissions... in his work. like i said, he's no tim burton, but as adds more films to his résumé with almost exclusively white casts...
― smells like PENGUINS (remy bean), Sunday, 7 August 2011 19:52 (twelve years ago) link
^^ but, most of his films are set in Omaha! Has diversity arrived there yet?
― Mucho! Macho! Honcho!: Turn Off The Dark (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 7 August 2011 19:57 (twelve years ago) link
there is literally no way i can think of him addressing "the super-whiteness of his oeuvre" in a future film that would actually earn praise from remy so why bother
― Autism Alamac (some dude), Sunday, 7 August 2011 20:02 (twelve years ago) link
good one!
― smells like PENGUINS (remy bean), Sunday, 7 August 2011 20:05 (twelve years ago) link
eh "write what you know," etc. It's one thing for me to implore Woody Allen to hang out with different kind of friends; it's another to recommend he cast Martin Lawrence.
― livin in my own private Biden hole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 7 August 2011 20:08 (twelve years ago) link
ok fine I would recommend it
― livin in my own private Biden hole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 7 August 2011 20:09 (twelve years ago) link
i think its kinda unfair to write sandra oh off as "exotic love interest"? but i dont disagree that it might be nice to see some ppl of color in these movies. also its one thing to have a white-ppl-only movie set in the midwest but if this movie about hawaii is as white as the trailers make it seem that wd be...... weird
― max, Sunday, 7 August 2011 20:10 (twelve years ago) link
ugh fuck sideways. i really love election + citizen ruth is a crazy film. i always think of this dude in terms of a "what happened?" narrative. maybe i should see about schmidt.
― horseshoe, Sunday, 7 August 2011 20:11 (twelve years ago) link
sandra oh was not an "exotic" love interest -- she was just a good-time gal as they say.
― by another name (amateurist), Sunday, 7 August 2011 20:14 (twelve years ago) link
never watched the director's cut w/ "me love you long time" monologue eh
― Autism Alamac (some dude), Sunday, 7 August 2011 20:16 (twelve years ago) link
I guess my issue isn't with what he's doing/done in terms of career being abt. white people woes, it's that he's selected four books to adapt (Citizen Ruth is original, right?) and the six or seven lead parts in each of them – save his ex-wife's – are all pretty similar. Google tells me that Payne went to UCLA and lived in Spain, so I think it's a little disingenuous to claim he's just doing 'what he knows' b/c at some point in his European and Angeleno life he has to interact w/ a lot of different people.
― smells like PENGUINS (remy bean), Sunday, 7 August 2011 20:19 (twelve years ago) link
Also I've enjoyed all five(?) of his films, to varying degrees.
― smells like PENGUINS (remy bean), Sunday, 7 August 2011 20:20 (twelve years ago) link
Maybe his own knowledge of Spain is superficial...?
― livin in my own private Biden hole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 7 August 2011 20:22 (twelve years ago) link
i dont care if his movies only have economically comfortable white people in them, i like lots of stories about economically comfortable white ppl
― Lamp, Sunday, 7 August 2011 20:23 (twelve years ago) link
some of my best friends are economically comfortable white people
ah who am i kidding, all of them are
― sarahel hath no fury (history mayne), Sunday, 7 August 2011 20:24 (twelve years ago) link
heard he's adapting the 'first world problems' meme into his next droll character study
― Autism Alamac (some dude), Sunday, 7 August 2011 20:27 (twelve years ago) link
when super-white whit stillman made a film about spain the results were not so great (at least compared to his other films)
― buzza, Sunday, 7 August 2011 20:27 (twelve years ago) link
white stillman, amirite
― horseshoe, Sunday, 7 August 2011 20:27 (twelve years ago) link
i think there is disagreement on that point, but barcelona is my least favorite stillman, too
― horseshoe, Sunday, 7 August 2011 20:28 (twelve years ago) link
spanish people are white btw
He got worse with each film.
― livin in my own private Biden hole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 7 August 2011 20:29 (twelve years ago) link
o u last days of disco haters >:[
― horseshoe, Sunday, 7 August 2011 20:29 (twelve years ago) link
My grandfather's side of the family is Asturian, and they would be quite upset if you thought them non-white.
i like last days
― buzza, Sunday, 7 August 2011 20:30 (twelve years ago) link
i think "spain" represents something other than middle-america whitebread, i don't think anyone was claiming spaniards as people of color
― buzza, Sunday, 7 August 2011 20:31 (twelve years ago) link
oh i was just being annoying i love whit stillman! and movies about white people!
― horseshoe, Sunday, 7 August 2011 20:32 (twelve years ago) link
I would love to watch Alexander Payne's version of Othello
― smells like PENGUINS (remy bean), Sunday, 7 August 2011 20:32 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rigenweb/stones1/StillmanWhite.jpg
― buzza, Sunday, 7 August 2011 20:34 (twelve years ago) link
^ whit stillman's grand uncle iirc
― Lamp, Sunday, 7 August 2011 20:35 (twelve years ago) link
Othello, Nebraska:
Nick Nolte as OthelloPeter Fonda as IagoSwoowie Kurtz as Desdemona Jared Hess as CassioConor Oberst as Rodrigo
^^^ would actually be the worst film ever made
― smells like PENGUINS (remy bean), Sunday, 7 August 2011 20:37 (twelve years ago) link
i do think what i find irritating about sideways is treating white middle-class men's interest in wine and women who are prettier than they are as so fucking fascinating, but the white middle-class part is probably a red herring. i don't know to articulate what i dislike about that movie i'd probably have to watch it again and that's not going to happen.
― horseshoe, Sunday, 7 August 2011 20:38 (twelve years ago) link
whit stillman is way better than this guy. last days of disco 4e.
― ℗⎣▲✘ (ico), Sunday, 7 August 2011 20:38 (twelve years ago) link
if you didn't enjoy last days of disco you should have just danced through it, it is jiving
― (oboe interlude) (schlump), Sunday, 7 August 2011 20:48 (twelve years ago) link
lol now why tf would this alexander payne thread be going off on a quiet sunday afternoon
― ice cr?m, Sunday, 7 August 2011 20:53 (twelve years ago) link
*potential I would have guessed from Election
― birdistheword, Monday, 19 February 2024 17:57 (one month ago) link
i haven't seen any of his movies between sideways and the holdovers, but it seems like after election he moved from making movies about anger to movies about sadness. which is fine, but anger has a lot more energy/drive than sadness. there's just so much simmering tension and resentment throughout election that gives it a spark.
― na (NA), Monday, 19 February 2024 18:12 (one month ago) link
i think sideways his best
@eephus- rather strangely after reading your post, but while writing mine above i actually did wonder whether i wouldnt much rather have seen linklaters holdovers
― close encounters of the third knid (darraghmac), Monday, 19 February 2024 18:16 (one month ago) link
It was called EVERYBODY WANTS SOME!
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Monday, 19 February 2024 19:46 (one month ago) link
OK not really but then again sort of
lol - that is a great, underappeciated film though.
― birdistheword, Monday, 19 February 2024 20:08 (one month ago) link
I caught this in a small but surprisingly full theater over the weekend. Had to sit almost directly under the screen but it was fine. I thought it was thoroughly enjoyable and the people I was with, who ranged in age from 12 to 80, all enjoyed it as well. Maybe even better than Nebraska.
― o. nate, Tuesday, 20 February 2024 16:42 (one month ago) link
Seen The Holdovers and liked it quite a lot more than I expected, very good; seen Sideways today and it's fucking great, back when it came out I seen a bunch of boring old middle class people saying it was a boring old middle class white guy movie, so I avoided it, but it's a lot of fun. Shit on newsnight review, I can't believe I trusted you.
Never heard of Alexander Payne until this year but it turns out I've seen most of his films! I might seek out the other ones.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 6 March 2024 00:27 (three weeks ago) link
the bowling scene in the holdovers was filmed in my hometown! shoutout to the wakefield bowladrome.
nice movie, i enjoyed it a lot on the lead performances alone.
― call all destroyer, Sunday, 10 March 2024 02:23 (two weeks ago) link
agreed, all 3 of the main performer's work felt effortless.
― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Sunday, 10 March 2024 03:10 (two weeks ago) link
This seems pretty damninghttps://variety.com/2024/film/news/the-holdovers-accused-plagiarism-luca-writer-1235935605/
― Piedie Gimbel, Sunday, 10 March 2024 08:52 (two weeks ago) link
Frisco script is here.
Read the first 40 pages and not seeing much, other than cynical, wise-cracking central character thrown together with 15 year old.
― bulb after bulb, Sunday, 10 March 2024 14:26 (two weeks ago) link
Some of the “line by line transpositions” in that document are a real stretch
― cozen itt (wins), Sunday, 10 March 2024 15:17 (two weeks ago) link
Note that: 1. The scene begins with Paul/Wills in a library/quiet carriage 2. Paul/Wills is doing something relaxing, andhas a mug/cup. 3. The third action line sentence consists of Paul/Willis performing two body-based actions. 4. Paul/Wills' fist line is an exclamation that features a religious-based curse. 5. The surprise means he will be stuck alone with Angus/Amy. 6. The physical mechanism by which this occurs is a mode of transport train/helicopter).
― cozen itt (wins), Sunday, 10 March 2024 15:24 (two weeks ago) link
yeah my kid read all of this to me out loud yesterday and it sounds bad until you actually read the details. 'line by line' is an utterly false statement.
― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Sunday, 10 March 2024 15:46 (two weeks ago) link
I might seek out the other ones.
I still say it's all downhill after Election but yes, there's a lot worth seeing.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Sunday, 10 March 2024 16:38 (two weeks ago) link
This seems pretty damning
https://variety.com/2024/film/news/the-holdovers-accused-plagiarism-luca-writer-1235935605/
― Piedie Gimbel, Sunday, 10 March 2024 4:52 AM (nine hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
i’m guessing you didn’t read it
― flopson, Sunday, 10 March 2024 18:20 (two weeks ago) link
I liked Sideways better than Election. I remember disliking parts of About Schmidt but at the time I was pretty sick of that whole indie film/comics aesthetic of glum guys staring at the screen. Kathy Bates had a decent part in it.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 10 March 2024 20:15 (two weeks ago) link
didnt realise he was about schmidt
maybe the most vapid message ive ever seen in a movie
― close encounters of the third knid (darraghmac), Sunday, 10 March 2024 21:14 (two weeks ago) link
Sense of place, sense of character, sense of humor, sense of tragedy of failed lives: he knows what he's doing, if these things matter to a viewer. Knows it on the level of Chekhov in Sideways, The Descendants, and The Holdovers.
― paisley got boring (Eazy), Sunday, 10 March 2024 21:22 (two weeks ago) link
Note how the two scenes unfold on a near line-by-line basis: 1. Paul/Wills is working in his room/on the ward. 2. A messenger interrupts him to tell him his boss wants him. 3. Paul/Wills self-importantly tells the messenger to tell his boss he is busy. 4. The messenger tells Paul/Willis he actually must go now. 5. Paul/Wills reluctantly acquiesce
These are all like unbelievably stock scenes that you can find “line by line transpositions” of in films from the 1920s. I almost feel worse for this guy than I would if his movie really had been plagiarized, the deeper you go into detailed examples the more sad/pathetic it seems. Payne-esque, even!
― waste of compute (One Eye Open), Monday, 11 March 2024 16:37 (two weeks ago) link
Yeah at first I was willing to give it credence because he's not just a random loon but an actual produced screenwriter, but the more you see it it's ridiculous.
― from a prominent family of bassoon players (Boring, Maryland), Monday, 11 March 2024 16:44 (two weeks ago) link
Paul/Wills is called to adventure.Paul/Wills refuses the call.Paul/Wills embarks on a road of trials.
― difficult listening hour, Monday, 11 March 2024 21:12 (two weeks ago) link
The but where he’s like “clearly they used software to do this” 🫣Also is the character called fucking Wills or Willis, in the holdovers the guy has the same name all the way thru
― cozen itt (wins), Monday, 11 March 2024 21:17 (two weeks ago) link
The Plagiarism Today blog has a thoughtful backgrounder on this:https://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2024/03/11/why-the-holdovers-is-not-a-plagiarism/
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 13 March 2024 10:25 (two weeks ago) link
Though it contains a qualifier of note:
My Analysis Note: I have not seen The Holdovers nor have I read Frisco. This analysis is based solely on the allegations provided by Stephenson and the follow ups shared by other screenwriters.
― Dr Drudge (Bob Six), Wednesday, 13 March 2024 10:40 (two weeks ago) link
Saw "The Holdovers." I thought it was really well directed and acted, but the story and writing ultimately didn't transcend its more familiar/predictable beats.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 17 March 2024 03:59 (one week ago) link
Yeah my take too. Also nice to see snow, albeit in a movie.
― from a prominent family of bassoon players (Boring, Maryland), Sunday, 17 March 2024 14:10 (one week ago) link
I keep thinking of him saying "your toes would curl!"
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 17 March 2024 18:51 (one week ago) link