Buffy

lol me telling kevin p much the same episodes to watch.

don't skip s6! its the most depressing year of television ever, the kids in the wire withstanding.

Caleb was a terribly written character. He was strong because he listened to the first evil? But he was also a Christian? And he saw what the slayers were doing to be evil but had no problem killing people? But he wasn't written to be a mad man, of which Buffy has had many over the years?

― popular gay automobile (a hoy hoy), Thursday, May 12, 2011 8:10 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark

srsly, all of this

haha from that list of reax to the no-joss movie, joss himself:

look for The Dark Knight Rises Way Earlier Than That Other One and Also More Cheaply and in Toronto, rebooting into a theater near you.

I feel like the show got way lazier and more obvious with its feminism - Buffy strikes a blow against misogyny by killing this completely ridiculous one-dimensional uber-sexist Southern preacher. The segments in previous seasons involving the Watcher's Council were effectively feminist, but Quentin whatisname didn't go around shouting about how he was the patriarchy, he was an actual character. Also, the thing where Caleb could have killed Buffy like 3 times and just sort of walked away lessened the impact a bit.

I feel like the show got way lazier and more obvious with its feminism

sam can prob correct me if i'm wrong on this, but this seemed to coincide with joss taking a less active role in the show as he ramped up firefly involvement

Yeah, I think that's what happened. He came back to be more actively involved in the last handful of episodes.

And even that didn't make the landing any less rough. So much of the final season is wheels spinning in place, and then when it finally starts to go somewhere they run out of time/money/words/enthusiasm/ideas.

Man you guys really love this show. OK. Imma give it another shot. I WILL NOT GIVE UP!

(but it may take me a while)

It's one of those shows, like "The Shield" or "Deadwood," that run the risk of turning you off early, but gain strength and weight as they go along and you get to know the characters better. Not that I'd put Buffy on tier with those two, but I would wager its characters are among the best drawn in the history of TV.

fwiw i put buffy ahead of the shield in open combat any day

Shield ends so perfectly, though. Advantage: Vic Mackey.

I remember some commentary at the time that Caleb=George W. Bush (or any other religious right strawman).

Caleb=worst major villain of the series.

I look at Buffy season 7 as the price paid for how awesome both Angel's fourth season and Firefly's only season was

good way of looking at it

god S7 really sucked the hairy one

I didn't realize till a few weeks ago that Connor from "Angel" and Pete Campbell are the same person.

that made the first season of mad men pretty weird, but it's worn off since pete got all growed up

yeah, it made the first couple of eps a little odd...but now he's pete & it is cool!

Connor from "Angel" and Pete Campbell are the same person.

― Handjobs for a sport (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, May 12, 2011 11:51 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

omfg

lol @ u

season 6 is great

erica, if you can possibly make it even to the last episode of season 1, you should try. that episode is very good. and then season 2 is great and it's all wonderful until season 7.

buffy is absolutely better than the shield and every other show

^^^

the reason that buffy is better than the shield is that buffy is more realistic

slogging thru season 6... i love buffy but have never felt less compelled to watch another episode following having just finished one (which has been the case seasons 1-5). it just really feels dawdling at this point... the trio are by far the worst villains to have ever appeared on this show, and none of this is in a measure of "whos badass"

great/annoying meta-commentary on that in the insane asylum episode

slogging thru season 6... i love buffy but have never felt less compelled to watch another episode following having just finished one (which has been the case seasons 1-5). it just really feels dawdling at this point... the trio are by far the worst villains to have ever appeared on this show, and none of this is in a measure of "whos badass"

― kelpolaris, Friday, 13 May 2011 04:46 (16 minutes ago)

The nerd trio as villains was one of the worst ideas in the history of series television.

Except Jonathan is awesome, sorry

as was andrew, come on. in fact it was just warren that was lame. also caleb wasn't the major villain, he was the mr. trick to the first evil's mayor. or something.

Marti Noxon became show runner season six onwards Hoos. I guess it became like a Lorne Michaels thing, with only so much time to work effectively between projects, even if their fingerprints still be on everything.

Marti Noxon works on Mad Men now, I noticed. How come she doesn't ruin that show /grudge /yes I am petty

and it wasn't obvious feminism that was the problem it was the terrible bodice-rippyness and omg melodrama! I just remember it being yuk

the trio would've been great for comic-relief ((exclusively)). i mean this in the same way that - ok, here it goes - team rocket was to pokemon (if they hadn't overplayed that role ad infinitum)

whedon & co i thought absolutely nailed a feeling of the ominous with seasons 3 and season 5. season 3 was just really the first encounter with something being possibly invincible (before season 4 utterly strangled that concept) and 5 carried on the same mistakes of a predictable villain - but redeemed itself by making the target not buffy, but dawn. it added this whole new dimension of vulnerability and a very real threat i hadn't seen since season 3.

i'll have to see how the trio works out but it seems so far that they've taken the worst bits of all the big bads of the past and pint-sized them into ridiculous caricatures i'm never sure if i'm supposed to take seriously or not.

pretty sure season six exists solely to give every academic a chapter in their thesis

you're usually not, which makes it awkward when you are, later (xpost)

the trio are essential for being the show's internalization of the worst part of their natural audience of sci-fi geeks.

think its worth it just for the episode where they have jet packs tbh.

marti noxon didn't ruin buffy. joss spreading himself too thin and not really having a PROPER EVIL VILLAIN for two seasons killed Buffy. Hell she wouldn't kill the trio because of humanity and the first evil was incorporable - so being able to slay things became p fucking redundant.

the trio are essential for being the show's internalization of the worst part of their natural audience of sci-fi geeks.

― j., Friday, May 13, 2011 5:58 AM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark

it was a bastardization of the show's mythology and mood in so many ways. They made a fucking RAY GUN ffs. And for what? So the writers could have a laugh at some of the show's fans? It was narcissistic, juvenile and ridiculous.

I remember episode 3 or 4 of that plot line when I was like "holy shit, they really are this season's big bad aren't they?" and I quit cold turkey.

the whole "mocking our audience" thing seemed especially hollow since they turned Spike into the show's Fonzie in large part to satisfy the appetites of slashfic authors.

ummm junkie willow and spike were the actual big bads of s6.

well ya see, I quit watching...

junkie willow was truly awful.

"Season 6
The main villains in Season 6 were the Trio - Warren Mears (portrayed by Adam Busch), Jonathan Levinson (portrayed by Danny Strong) and Andrew Wells (portrayed by Tom Lenk) - followed by Willow (known in this phase as Dark Willow), portrayed by Alyson Hannigan. Series creator Joss Whedon stated on the Season 6 DVD that the true Big Bad was life itself, and how as time goes on, it becomes more and more people's worst enemy"

Caleb was totally a major villain. They even made a point of his ultimate indestructible powers, which he frequently invoked to not kill Buffy, and which failed him when he turned out to be easy to dispense of. Same with the uber-vamps. The First Evil ... I don't know what the fuck that was supposed to be.

Not all of the Big Bads could be as good as the Mayor, who was best of all time imho. The First / Caleb was maybe poorly executed but that sort of cosmic disembodied capital E-vil was kinda necessary given that everyone knew the show had to wrap up and it's not like Buff beating up a baddie for the millionth time was gonna be a suitable end to the series.

I thought the Trio was actually good fun, in a way that kept a lot of silly banter & popcult references in the show as it got more "serious."

Also the whole point of the Trio was worthwhile in that they kind of embodied the a more realistic, even human side of evil pretty well. I mean Warren was the only villain to ever use a gun, which broke the supernatural convention of the show in a way that was ultimately really effective.

That's sort of one reason I tell people to stop after season 6. It beats around the bush less re: ultimate, real, non-fasntasy evil, whether it's Warren actually using a gun, to kill, or Willow's gruesome revenge, driven entirely by pure emotion and grief (and making good on hints dropped really early in the series). And of course it makes the Big Bad not just one of the Scoobies, but a Big Bad powerful enough that you actually believe the fate of the world is at stake. After all that angst and pain and death, the S7 Ultimate Evil shit was just a non-starter.

OTM. Also, the penultimate (or possibly 3rd-to-last) episode of season 6 has the best HOLY SHIT NO WAY! ending.

spoilersssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

the thing that happens w/ warren?

Of all the Big Bads I think that Adam -- the human-demon cyborg dude? -- was probably my least favorite.