Madonna: Classic Or Dud

1. I've always liked Terry Wogan - but god, he was lame when he interviewed Madonna.

2. Her accent - the cod-Brit one she adopted from late 80s on (?): dud.

3. What a load of piffle re. 'We all love her cos she lives in England now'. But that's probably been covered above.

4. The music seemed to get better over the years. I was so struck when 'Who's That Girl?' came on. I hadn't heard it in AGES, had always known I liked it, and it still sounded good. Some (to my ears) didn't: don't care for 'Vogue' much.

4. But slightly larger (though still terribly 'subjective') point: I was surprised at how bad the early stuff seemed. 'Holiday', 'Lucky Star', 'Like A Virgin': yes, they still have the predictable 80s nostalgia value. BUT even as I kind of enjoy that, I seem to hear a naffness, a tackiness in them. In fact one virtue of this prog was that I seemed to see the early stuff as though for the first time, as a kid. It reminded me of seeing early Madonna not as a loveable 80- retro icon of our childhood, but as The Big New Pop Star c. 1984. How did she seem, that way? Arrogant - self-satisfied - unsubtle - overrated - sinister - smug. 'Like A Virgin' felt crass and brazen. I'd never heard it sound so BAD in 15 years or more.

So in a way, one thing it made me feel was a resemblance (from my POV) between early Madonna and today's chart sensations (the people that Tom E likes). It made me feel that she had been just as bad as them. I hadn't felt that for a long time.

That said, her music's actually pretty damn good - "Cherish", "Open Your Heart", probably the entirety of _True Blue_. (Not that this is news to anyone but myself.) She's a crap actress, though, and a crapper singer, especially after her _Evita_ lessons - who the hell taught her how to hold notes? And WHY did they teach her that? And why is she posing with a guitar now like it's a revelation? "Oh, damn, I can play a C chord! This'll impress people!" And I like her better as a brunette. But she survived posing nude with Vanilla Ice, which is a skill I can only hope to emulate.

(And has anyone even mentioned _Ray of Light_ in terms of a quality slice of Ciccone "youth"? Or is there an anti-William Orbit contingent on this list that'll shit on such notions?)

But it's a lose-lose situation, this sort of talk. You praise her like you should, you're just towing the line with the rest of the acolytes. You disapprove, you're a wack playa hata. Just accept her as true American royalty and step away from the doors.

(But, lord, hearing her butcher "Like A Virgin" on that VH1 Girlie Show special was wretched. She turned it into a German cabaret number. A SLOW cabaret number. Lugubrious and woefully self- indulgent, Kubrick-style. "You're so fine, unt you're mine!")

'Ah but thats just the point, she's a weathervane, a survivor and a late 20th century pop icon'. Hmmmmmmmmm.

Klassic

(to be precise, he is not strictly speaking the worst - I find it hard to visualise anyone who could be a worse writer than Imran Ahmed of the NME - but that wouldn't quite have the same universal appeal when it comes to chat-ups)

Only someone who doesn't appreciate pop culture could say Madonna's a dud.

From what I heard Portillo was trying to persuade her to be the star turn at the next Tory election rally. Still she's moved back to LA now, so the sight of her standing next to Bob Monkhouse, Jim Davidson and Ben Elton (prediction) will not come to pass.

You're probably right at that. What the fuck happened to him anyway?

She is also a very crafty song-writer. What is so amazing is how she plays with song structure. Guys if you have ever written songs, you know it takes a musical-genius to write that many styles of song-writing. It is fucking hard. I don't know how she does it but it is her. Yea I know she collaborates but from what I have read, she is always the primary lyricists. She has written very complex songs. Her use of different song structures is nothing short of brilliance. And to make them all hits like she does is pretty astounding.

I am not interested in the petty fighting between fans of different singers that goes on. I am just giving my opinion as a musician. Madonna is the real deal. Even other bands I talk with that aren't into her music give her props for being the real deal. In our circles, we respect Madonna even if we aren't into her music. She is a classic all the way and will go down as one of the top 10 greatest female singer/song-writers of all time. She is a musical genius.

Didn't realize people actually used such terminology.

Oh, and classic or dud, she represents all the worst of postmodern media saturation, celebrity for celebrity's sake, nihilistic materialism, etc. I root for her stalkers.

I didn't listen to her seriously until that point as well. She's great.

So maybe I can't be objective.

A living legend.

And the video of Hollywood is just stunning. As are the remixes.

remixes sound good tho

Also, she should start releasing the great tracks from American Life, and there are definitely quite a few. I'd go for Nothing Fails and Mother and Father.... both classic Madonna.

Why in the heck did they put "Borderline" as the third song on Immaculate Collection? I don't get that. Those other songs ("Lucky Star", "holiday") weren't released as singles earlier, were they? I don't think so. I swear "Borderline" was the first video I ever saw. That's kind of annoying sequencing. I think "Borderline" is just so fantastic - the type of song that should really kick off a greatest hits collection.

Anyway, let's talk some more about Madge. We haven't had much opportunity to do so; the last album flopped, god bless her, but what can you do? It happens. She is still awesome in my mind.

I finally saw Swept Away on HBO or something over X-mas but whatever, it wasn't too bad. I loved the original, and Madonna's didin't seem to bad. Decent flick.

Anyway ... Madonna!!!

Madonna would benefit from a Lennon-like 5 year voluntary break from the public eye/music world...

Because:
1) the album is chronological
2) it could not start more perfectly
3) the song's classic-ness is "borderline" at best

I can't believe it! This is the song from Live Aid you can't get on the commercially available DVD! And I found it by accident when I played Human League's Human video. God what luck. I love You Tube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lABvKuDZFKE

Hmm. So I'm the only one who cares? I realize it's not the best song in the world, perhaps, but it's been the missing chapter in her Live Aid performance for me, it's the missing link, the mystery solved, I feel so relieved.

It's ok -- this appeared on True Blue, no?

I don't know - did it? I've been wondering what album it came off if any. I guess I could look it up and I will do so, but too tired right now.

Indeed it did. Last track, in fact.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/True-Blue-Madonna/dp/B000002L9S/ref=sr_1_1/202-6023791-6219064?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1190557045&sr=1-1

Anyway, much better than the "Revolution" train wreck.

Christ almighty Alfred you are OTM in that regard! I mean that shit was just tragic.

Anyway, isn't it about time she releases a compilation containing the original 7" versions of her singles? Particularly "True Blue" sounded very different as a single than as an album track (and video), and it isn't avaiable anywhere except in its 12" version as a bonus track on the "True Blue" remaster.

She needs to fuck off and retire at long last.

She should rather have rested from 1990 to 1997, as she didn't produce much of value during that period anyway. From 1998 onwards, she has been great.

Dud. Fucking horrible woman.

I don't know what's most over-rated - her music or her "looks".

I'd rather hear Guy Ritchie sing. And wear a cone-shaped bra, come to think of it.....

She needs to fuck off and retire at long last.

-- Alex in NYC, Wednesday, 26 September 2007 01:49 (10 hours ago) Bookmark Link

83 - 89 = CLASSIC
92 - 94 = ok
98 = quite good but not classic
99 - present = DUD

i think her voice is actually underrated. listening to angel recently and although she has difficulty reaching the low notes, i like how she used to sing in a lower register than how she sings today. she seemed to have more vocal character then. though it might also be cos she seemed to have more of a soul/R&B influence back then too.

huh

For the first time on a Madonna tour, there was no live band – according to musical director Stuart Price, this is to let the original recordings shine.

yeah, I noticed TV shows also stopped hiring real string musicians, to let those EastWest plugins shine

lol

No one wants to say “to save some dough”

"Ok Madonna, we've looked at the tour budget and we are a little over. We could either cut the light show, or cut the musicians, what do you think?"

Madonna brought Kylie onstage for a couple songs last night in L.A. and i think the earth's axis shifted.

My wife was there... she thought it was a little odd that they performed "I Will Survive" (and then played just a few bars of "Can't Get You Out of My Head"). Her overall review of the show was mixed...

pretty obvious it was just a quick cameo, maybe somewhat impromptu based on Kylie being in town at the time, and that they'd have to do a couple songs they would both know, just a couple logical picks. def more about the iconic moment being created and not the production values.

Apparently it was the slot in the show where she normally does "Express Yourself."

Which she apparently does acoustic, for some reason, right?

Oh, I don't know... she said "I Will Survive" was acoustic.

She took a pic of Lenny Kravitz walking up the aisle... she also saw Jeff B3zo$ there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1RAd9hPhUU

yes, this acoustic number is part of the show and she’s been alternating between I Will Survive and Express Yourself. there is also the vogueing competition segment, and a different guest judge gets invited in each city (we got pamela anderson in vancouver), so perhaps the plan was to have kylie as a guest judge and they decided to use the occasion to do something more?

She called out a person from the stage for sitting down only to discover they were in a wheelchair!

yeah that was pretty cringe

still in awe of how amazing her show was last night. her voice was pretty much destroyed by the end of the show last night (she was drinking Jager all night on stage and yelling, so no shocker), but she's never been known for being a great singer (though sadly that did cause her to outright ruin "Take a Bow", lol).

but the entire show was beautiful, the theatrical jaunt through the decades of her life were incredible, and considering how hateful our Governor is to the LGBTQIA2S+ community, it was great to see something so sex positive and openly celebratory of all orientations and identities in our state. didn't hurt that the song choices were ace - "Bad Girl" was incredible, "Live to Tell", "Everything", "Burning Up" were some of my favorites. she did fully lip sync "Ray of Light", which is not unexpected, but that was incredibly staged.

but man I wish she'd stop demanding her shows be at 84 degrees, god that was hot. lol.

she was drinking Jager all night

gross

lol otm.

I was kinda side-eyeing her, "you want the arena at 84 degrees for your voice and yet you're ruining it anyway by drinking that all night".

Was it a prop, like David Lee Roth's "Jack Daniels" bottle that was full of iced tea?

I thought DLR (and Michael, and probably EVH, for sure Alex, who had a trash can by his set for barf) was drinking the real thing, but he accused the Clash of drinking iced tea.

I was close (courtesy Hagar's memoir):

They would wake up Al about twenty minutes before show-time. There was always a case of tall Schlitz cans. He would shotgun three or four beers and get his buzz on. He would walk out onstage with a couple more cans in his hands, pound those, and drink the rest of the case during the two-hour show. The crew would put out these big rubber trash cans for him to piss in during the show. After practically every song, he’d piss in the trash can, pound a couple of beers, and start playing again. Sometimes he’d really be fucked up. In the middle of a song, he’d just get up off the drums to take a piss or chug a beer. Eventually he started wearing one of those helmets with beer holders on the side, and straws. At the end of the tour, he needed some help.

xxpost kind of the reverse, she was drinking out of a Budweiser bottle all night, then explained that it wasn't really filled with Budweiser, that it was Jager.

(possible it was water and she was kidding, but judging by how raspy and dry-mouthed she seemed, I doubt it).

my mom was dancing and singing throughout the whole show

Guy Pratt, the British sessioneer who's played with Pink Floyd among other giants, breaks down his fantastic bass part in "Like a Prayer." Check out his playing at 12:00.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yluPCLc1ltg

That is one of my favorite clips of all time, pretty sure I've posted it somewhere on ILX once or twice.

(His book is great, btw, especially if you want some colorful Robert Palmer tales.)