should i give the grateful dead a chance?

It's too bad that you don't see value in their other songs, too. They've got a lot of great tunes. Maybe try Jerry's first solo album, Garcia, the one with the naked breast in the montage on the cover.

I think I misused the word "montage" in that sentence.

The versions of "The Eleven" from the Fillmore shows that wound up on Live/Dead (which were later collected on the box) are completely amazing. I guess that is in 11/4 time, right? It makes me so happy when I hear it, and agreed that the rhythm in general is out of this world on that track. However - I still wind up paying more attention to Jerry's guitar for some reason, even there. Not saying the playing is at fault, it's just where my ear gravitates w/ the Dead.

My ear gravitates there too.On that whole album his guitar sounds almost like a trumpet. What a master of tone and feel.

"The Eleven" has a definite Allman Bros. feel, and I don't even know if the Allmans were around by that point.

Chaki I will try to re-up when I get home

man if liking the dead is wrong i dont wanna be right

totally. i don't even try to convince the folks who don't like 'em. As Jerry said: the Dead are like black liquorice -- some love it, some hate it.

Sara Sara Sara - have you heard a version of "The Eleven" from 1969? Huge amounts of energy there.

It's funny, Kreutzmann always looked SO DAMN BORED, but I love his drumming during the '72-'74 period w/ Hart gone. He and Godchaux had way more room to work with, and I think that's what makes those years the best. The '80s/'90s rhythm section w/ Kreutzmann & Hart could def. sound sluggish and plodding at times though. The flipside is that they sounded STRONG, too, but they never sounded as lively as they did in the '60s/early '70s.

I wish the SBDs were still up at archive.org.

I got the Cornell '77, the version a buddy downloaded for me sounds like it was recorded last night. A+ performance and songlist, the Scarlet/Fire is amazing.

My feeling on the Dead is that Jerry Garcia was extremely talented and it's too bad his band sucked.

Thanks for sharing that. Much appreciated.

My feeling on the Dead is that Jerry Garcia was extremely talented and it's too bad his band sucked.

-- dally

:D

"Leave 'the bombs' to Phil"

I had something similar when I tried to get a friend into the Velvet Underground.

"yeah, Lou Reed is OK, but the rest are pretentious wankers"

Well the opposite is true in the case of the VU.

Re: Phil...personally, I just really do not like his style of playing 'around' the song rather than giving it a good foundation--he noodles around in a very self-indulgent manner, as if he's just listening to himself rather than the song. He thinks he's playing a counterpart, but it's really just out of tune. Check out all the bum notes in the otherwise beautiful studio version of Brokedown Palace for a classic example of a song ruined by Phil. And let's not even talk about the vocals. Bob Weir is an awful, awful singer. And Phil, somehow, managers to be even worse on that score. Garcia's voice had character. And also: how does a band have two drummers and yet to driving backbeat?

Which is why I'd rather listen to the JGB any time over the Dead. No Weir, no Lesh.

to=no driving backbeat

Please don't get me wrong: I really love slow Garcia/Hunter ballads: Wharf Rat, Row Jimmy, even the later Standing on the Moon is beautiful. But those Weir/Barlow bits just do not do it for me.

No arguments about Weir or Lesh on the mic.

Lesh didn't sing all that much, I enjoyed the few songs he wrote (esp. Box of Rain, the Eleven). I enjoy his bass playing, and it's really nice on this Cornell thing I cited to restart the thread. I like Weir's voice, but I'm definitely a Jerry guy.

I really can't stand the Velvet Underground.

i agree with bill about everything

I've never heard those words spoken in my life.

I'm too lazy to read the whole thread, but I have a bunch of friends who dig the dead for very few reasons. This being one of them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVqArOogY-c

Even if you hate them, you have to admit, Hugh Heffner + Jerry = WTF???!

That's great stuff

Re: Phil...personally, I just really do not like his style of playing 'around' the song rather than giving it a good foundation--he noodles around in a very self-indulgent manner, as if he's just listening to himself rather than the song.

FWIW, you can hear him playing "inside" the song from '66 - '72. He didn't pick up the bass until he started w/ GD (came from a trumpet / comp / etc. background). There's a great interview out there where Lesh talks about taking 6-8 years to learn how to play "inside" the song, just to learn how to play "outside" the song. It's funny that you hear it as "self-indulgent" and "listening to himself" -- you have to listen very, VERY closely to play around the rest of the band like that. One reason I love '73/'74 stuff so much is that Godchaux and Lesh do a ton of "outside" playing, which is what gives the music that meandering quality that I love. If you're listening for patterns/grooves, you probably won't be a fan. I always thought that was one of the big draws to '77-'79 GD-- Lesh stays "inside" the songs/jams pretty regularly.

Plus, the more closely you listen, the more you hear each player reacting to another's part.

What's a better description of "inside" and "outside"? Does "inside" have something to do w/ bass players sticking to the root + fifths? Never learneded this.

Another fact that sometimes goes unnoticed is that a majority of the fans are super-familiar w/ the backbone of each song. They come to hear how the band plays off that backbone, and the band lost interest in straight-forward R&B jamming after '70 for the most part.

A couple of nice posts there, Jamesey..

it's still shit. i'm a dead hater, so sue me.

Does Dead-hating include the New Riders? Surely you can't dislike the New Riders s/t.

Dead-hating does not include The New Riders Of The Purple Sage, no.

Then there shall be a peace.

Top 5 songs sung primarily be Bob:

1) "Looks Like Rain"
2) "Jack Straw"
3) "Weather Report Suite"
4) "Estimated Prophet"
5) "Cassidy"

"Re: Phil...personally, I just really do not like his style of playing 'around' the song rather than giving it a good foundation--he noodles around in a very self-indulgent manner, as if he's just listening to himself rather than the song."

I think the thing with Lesh's bass lines is to listen how they interact with Garcia's lead guitar. The Dead was a band with some heavy harmony, as you also have a rhythm guitarist and always one keyboard player, so I don't think there was a great need for him to hang in the back on bass and hold down the root. I think Lesh's lines seem to be weaving in with Garcia and I think they did quite a bit of interplay between them. How the bass worked was one of the more unique things in the bands sound.

If you would have put Duck Dunn in the Dead, it would have worked, grooved and probably sounded good, but then again it wouldn't quite sound like 'the dead'. I think Lesh's style is as unique as say how Peter Hook's playing is in New Order, it isn't really how most bass players play but that is one of the reasons the band sounds a bit different.

otm, xp

grateful dead 4 real

mb/n

undersampled

richest textures in th 70s

i heard anyways. maybe like 1/50 pink floyd tracks

uh yeah hold down tha root

what were the intervals of jerzy garcia would YOU PREFER

were all the lyrics about. what are some good lyrics of theirs if any aren't i don't think

ban mkcaine.

otm

mkciane takin the heat off

ban sturdy banton.

i mean what are some good gd songs

sorry

were they emo or something