ATTN: Copyeditors and Grammar Fiends

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xpost ehhhh i guess so

SQUARECOATS (plsmith), Thursday, 11 May 2006 20:17 (seventeen years ago) link

Good point, Pete. I've just seen the latter formulation so many times by now!

jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 11 May 2006 20:17 (seventeen years ago) link

maybe you were misreading "similies"?

SQUARECOATS (plsmith), Thursday, 11 May 2006 20:19 (seventeen years ago) link

ZING

SQUARECOATS (plsmith), Thursday, 11 May 2006 20:19 (seventeen years ago) link

NO

jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 11 May 2006 20:20 (seventeen years ago) link

MORE CAPITALIZATION PLZ

Dan (WOOT) Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 11 May 2006 20:21 (seventeen years ago) link

I've been interviewing about a technical writing internship. The employers haven't decided yet, but one of them sent me a small job to check out my editing skills. It's an 18-page technical document and he sez I shouldn't take more than two hours. What should I charge? I still don't go by an hourly rate for the other gig, which is a flat 230 USD per issue.

crossposting(''c) (Leee), Thursday, 11 May 2006 20:22 (seventeen years ago) link

two months pass...
can you "mitigate the possibility"? I mean, is it possible to mitigate something that hasn't happened yet?

teeny (teeny), Monday, 7 August 2006 20:35 (seventeen years ago) link

Yes.

Jesus Dan (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 August 2006 20:47 (seventeen years ago) link

(Basically, you are manipulating circumstances to make the worst-case scenario less worse.)

Jesus Dan (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 August 2006 20:55 (seventeen years ago) link

Least worst thread ever!

M. V. (M.V.), Tuesday, 8 August 2006 05:37 (seventeen years ago) link

"mitigate" means "lessen the effects of," no? it just adds some action to the verb "anticipate." or maybe i'm wrong...

Leave Brintey Alone (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 8 August 2006 05:43 (seventeen years ago) link

Doesn't 'anticipate' mean to take action about a potential event, not just to acknowledge its potential? With in-built ambiguity, I suppose, because acknowledgement is itself an action...

With 'mitigate' – is the it possibility which is to be mitigated, or the possible event? The possibility is discrete from the event if you see what I mean.

NB I fully expect to be shown to be wrong.

beanz (beanz), Tuesday, 8 August 2006 08:24 (seventeen years ago) link

Somehow "mitigate the possibility" doesn't sound right to me -- you would mitigate the actual event/circumstance. It just seems to me there'd be a better phrase.

i'll mitya halfway (mitya), Tuesday, 8 August 2006 08:34 (seventeen years ago) link

You could also mitigate against the possibility of the event happening, which is what I presume the usage here to be.

Jesus Dan (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 8 August 2006 09:11 (seventeen years ago) link

I suppose it depends on whether "possibility" can properly mean "scenario in which" as well as just "chances".

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 8 August 2006 09:12 (seventeen years ago) link

to make the possibility less severe? seems funny

crosspost

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 8 August 2006 09:14 (seventeen years ago) link

I have just been to the pub.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 12:36 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, I don't know about this phrase. A quick read-through leaves you unclear on the precise meaning -- whether it means controlling the event itself or the likelihood that the event will happen (and whether it should matter to the reader either way).

Technically, it seems to mean the latter, but once you start thinking about the words on that technical of a level, you start wondering why the word "possibility" is used. "Possibility" is kind of strict -- things are possible or not -- as opposed to words like "likelihood" or "chances," which imply more of a spectrum of odds. So now, in addition to the original ambiguity, you can start thinking about whether the phrase is supposed to mean the former of those things (trying to make a possible event impossible) or the latter (trying to reduce the chances of the event). It depends on the type of event, I guess.

On the plus side, if you want your readers to start having complex thoughts about what words really mean, then yes, this phrase is a great one.

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 9 August 2006 21:03 (seventeen years ago) link

Please help me, O Wise ILX Grammarians.

An ESL client for whom I'm doing some editing wrote:
"Jim hands the last sheet of paper to gloomy Jeff."
I changed this to:
"Jim hands the last sheet of paper to a gloomy Jeff."
Now aforementioned client wants to know why I put the "a" in before "gloomy". He's quite right to ask this, as he's trying to learn, but for the life of me I can't explain why I did it -- it just sounded more idiomatically correct to me. Is it GRAMMATICALLY correct and can anyone give me a sound rule to trot out to him (because I've looked in all the bleedin' resources I can think of -- online, Chicago, Copyeditors' Handbook -- but am not quite sure what to actually look for here) or is it wrong and I've lost my mind? Perhaps I should just admit defeat and tell him to recast as "to Jeff, who looks gloomy"... TIA for helping out and saving me reputation...

surfer_stone_rosa (surfer_stone_rosa), Saturday, 12 August 2006 18:45 (seventeen years ago) link

I think the original sentence, "Jim hands the last sheet of paper to gloomy Jeff," is fine. Your addition is grammatically correct too, but doesn't really add anything.

Danny Aioli (Rock Hardy), Saturday, 12 August 2006 18:56 (seventeen years ago) link

"mitigate the possibility" isn't at all ambiguous!

Nabisco, if you can give me a good explanation of the practical semantic difference between "trying to make a possible event impossible" and "trying to reduce the chances of the event", I will stop thinking that you get totally bonged out when you think about language.

I can't find a rule on the "a gloomy Jeff" construction but you could make an argument that "Gloomy Jeff" sounds like a proper name whereas "a gloomy Jeff" describes the current gloomy incarnation of this particular person named Jeff. That is totally me talking out of my ass, though.

Jesus Dan (Dan Perry), Saturday, 12 August 2006 19:04 (seventeen years ago) link

Thank you, Jesus Dan-ny Aioli -- I think you're both right. No, Dan, no ass-talking there -- that's pretty much what I was trying to say; just wanted to be able to add "Look, it says so in XYZ Big Important Book!" Ah, well. I'll put both scenarios to le client and let him pick.

surfer_stone_rosa (surfer_stone_rosa), Sunday, 13 August 2006 10:33 (seventeen years ago) link

I should think that "forestall the possibility" would have been closer to conveying the sense of "trying to make a possible event impossible" and "trying to reduce the chances of the event".

Aimless (Aimless), Wednesday, 16 August 2006 03:09 (seventeen years ago) link

the word you're looking for is militate

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 16 August 2006 03:25 (seventeen years ago) link

Dan, I meant it was ambiguous because the reader might have to think for a second about whether it means (a) keeping an event from happening or (b) making the consequences less bad if and when the event does happen. So as for this:

the practical semantic difference between "trying to make a possible event impossible" and "trying to reduce the chances of the event"

... that's more just a random thought on top. Because yeah, I think there's a slight difference between how we talk about things being "possible" and the way we talk about them being "likely."

For instance, if a nuclear technician says "the possibility of a meltdown is unacceptable," then the solution might be to shut down the reactor entirely (because a meltdown is either possible or not).

Whereas if he says "the likelihood of a meltdown is unacceptable," then the solution is just to take steps to reduce the chances of a meltdown.

So I just mean there's a difference between possibility and probability -- one's more absolute, the other's more scaled -- and the connotations of "possibility" versus "likelihood" match up with that.

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 16 August 2006 04:43 (seventeen years ago) link

"23% of 13&endash;15-year-olds"

that's how it is; i don't like the way it looks. what would you do?

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Friday, 25 August 2006 17:03 (seventeen years ago) link

har hmm

"23% of 13–15-year-olds"

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Friday, 25 August 2006 17:04 (seventeen years ago) link

13- to 15-year-olds

bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Friday, 25 August 2006 17:08 (seventeen years ago) link

23% of the 13-to-15 year-old age group

Scourage (Haberdager), Friday, 25 August 2006 17:09 (seventeen years ago) link

no

bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Friday, 25 August 2006 17:13 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, I'd go with Bernard Snow's suggestion.

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 25 August 2006 17:19 (seventeen years ago) link

y'all can't see me but rest assured that I just spiked my mouse onto the floor in celebration

bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Friday, 25 August 2006 17:20 (seventeen years ago) link

He played the better game on the day, I guess.

Scourage (Haberdager), Friday, 25 August 2006 17:22 (seventeen years ago) link

now i'm curious. is there anything we should know about 23% of 13- to 15-year-olds?

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 25 August 2006 17:34 (seventeen years ago) link

23% of 13- to 15-year-olds know how to spell "23% of 13- to 15-year-olds"

StanM (StanM), Friday, 25 August 2006 17:35 (seventeen years ago) link

"are emos"

Scourage (Haberdager), Friday, 25 August 2006 17:35 (seventeen years ago) link

I am still getting used to "emo" as a noun.

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 25 August 2006 17:45 (seventeen years ago) link

love you bernard snow

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Friday, 25 August 2006 18:02 (seventeen years ago) link

how come all the grammar threads?

jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Friday, 25 August 2006 18:05 (seventeen years ago) link

the next part of the sentence is "have tried tobacco in lower- and middle-income countries" ... dangling hyphens ahoy

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Friday, 25 August 2006 18:05 (seventeen years ago) link

xpost: Their extremely interesting for some've us, Mr. Totalwizard.

Scourage (Haberdager), Friday, 25 August 2006 18:07 (seventeen years ago) link

how come all the grammar threads have tried tobacco in lower- and middle-income countries?

jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Friday, 25 August 2006 18:07 (seventeen years ago) link

how come all the grammar threads?

September is just around the corner; grammar is in the air!

Jesus Dan (Dan Perry), Friday, 25 August 2006 18:07 (seventeen years ago) link

have tried tobacco in lower- and middle-income countries

So the rich ones took buses into poorer neighborhoods just so they could try tobacco?

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 25 August 2006 18:19 (seventeen years ago) link

(Also is that really "countries," and not "counties?")

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 25 August 2006 18:20 (seventeen years ago) link

nabs i swapped that around for exactly that reason!! sentence now runs "23% of 13- to 15-year-olds in low- and middle-income countries have tried tobacco"

and yes it is countries.. the phrase appears so often that i wonder if it would be ok to say "(LMICs)" after the first ref and then just use that

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Friday, 25 August 2006 18:24 (seventeen years ago) link

I shook my head this week at "blood-urea-nitrogen levels." No wonder I can't remember any of these 'rules.'

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 25 August 2006 18:28 (seventeen years ago) link

two weeks pass...
"big-upped" or "bigged up"?

jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:49 (seventeen years ago) link

What?? Bigged up. Totally. Mothers-in-law, etc.

Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:51 (seventeen years ago) link


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