but it's got jellyfish
― portrait of velleity (woof), Friday, 15 April 2011 11:37 (thirteen years ago) link
there's not always room for jellyfish
― the salmon of procrastination (darraghmac), Friday, 15 April 2011 11:47 (thirteen years ago) link
From The Nation again. I'm gonna spoil it and just post the answer too, 'cause I'm new and still trying to figure out if some of the cluing is typical or just wtf:
What shows up repeatedly in this puzzle: frequently, that guy with long, low, backwards underwear. (5,2,3,4)
It was a fruit themed puzzle, so once I got that (5) was Fruit, the rest led me to "Of The Loom."
Okay, so:
frequently = oft that guy = helow backwards = oom (groan!)underwear = fruit of the loom
But what the hell is he doing with "long?" Is there a standard abbreviation that leads me to just include an L? I have no idea...
― Hardcore Bangage (Dan Peterson), Monday, 18 April 2011 15:57 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah I think he's using "l" as an abbreviation for long. I've seen it done, but I find it a bit cheap when setters overdo the one letter abbreviations
― A Zed and Two Nults (Noodle Vague), Monday, 18 April 2011 15:59 (thirteen years ago) link
i think so, tho you'd nearly want to have solved it first before working it out.
Ps a lot of cryptic clues are like this
― i've got blingees on my fisters (darraghmac), Monday, 18 April 2011 16:00 (thirteen years ago) link
I suppose you could cite e.g. LP. He (or she) had my fave clue in all the five, fwiw:
Swinger's unsightly nude lump (8)
― standing on the shoulders of pissants (ledge), Monday, 18 April 2011 16:00 (thirteen years ago) link
pendulum
― A Zed and Two Nults (Noodle Vague), Monday, 18 April 2011 16:01 (thirteen years ago) link
actually that was in the next one.
― standing on the shoulders of pissants (ledge), Monday, 18 April 2011 16:01 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah not hard but it raised a grin.
xxxxp
a lot of bad cryptic clues are like this. imo an abbreviation is only legit if it's a common usage eg SI units
― A Zed and Two Nults (Noodle Vague), Monday, 18 April 2011 16:02 (thirteen years ago) link
Took l-for-long as being trouser-sizing-derived. But yeah, NV otm, too many single letter abbrevs cheap - make for unsatisfying, fiddly clues (see also things like the Doctor collection – dr, md, dd, gp, mo, mb etc etc)
― portrait of velleity (woof), Monday, 18 April 2011 16:13 (thirteen years ago) link
Good, so we're basically in agreement that L for long is a cheap shot? I just kinda think if I manage to solve the line and STILL don't know what the setter was thinking, it's pretty vague. That Cosima Coinpott puzzle had a few groaners; overall I didn't care for it.
― Hardcore Bangage (Dan Peterson), Monday, 18 April 2011 16:32 (thirteen years ago) link
Here's another one I didn't quite understand:
Exclude upper-class sign in groove. (4,3)
― Hardcore Bangage (Dan Peterson), Monday, 18 April 2011 17:37 (thirteen years ago) link
RULE OUT = R((U+LEO)UT
― under the pollcano (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 18 April 2011 17:44 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm dense, I'm still not understanding U+LEO.
― Hardcore Bangage (Dan Peterson), Monday, 18 April 2011 17:49 (thirteen years ago) link
U=upper-class, LEO=astrological sign of the lion
― under the pollcano (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 18 April 2011 17:51 (thirteen years ago) link
Again the single-letter thing. U = upper-class? Is this a British-ism, a cryptic-ism, or...?
― Hardcore Bangage (Dan Peterson), Monday, 18 April 2011 17:54 (thirteen years ago) link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_and_non-U_English
― emil.y, Monday, 18 April 2011 17:57 (thirteen years ago) link
Pretty standard. Some might prefer it to be clued like "University head," or "Urban chief" or something, although "University" is commonly abbreviated U, so "University" is a legitimate stand alone clue for "U."
― under the pollcano (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 18 April 2011 17:58 (thirteen years ago) link
OK, just looked at that link.
― under the pollcano (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 18 April 2011 17:59 (thirteen years ago) link
University Head I would have gotten. This from the Wiki for "U English" I have never heard of in my life:
"This was a reflection of the anxieties of the middle class in 1950s Britain
Thanks for the education!
― Hardcore Bangage (Dan Peterson), Monday, 18 April 2011 18:03 (thirteen years ago) link
Seriously, being very new to this I am a bit in awe of you folks. How many puzzles do you have to do before "upper-class = U and sign denotes zodiac denotes LEO" becomes your standard thought process?
I've got one more from that Coinpott puzzle:
Actor Eric and Newton are well-known in tropical country. (6,8)
I got Actor Eric, and I got the conclusion, but still don't understand what Newton is doing in there.
― Hardcore Bangage (Dan Peterson), Monday, 18 April 2011 18:35 (thirteen years ago) link
Banana Republic
― Neil S, Monday, 18 April 2011 18:40 (thirteen years ago) link
Newton = n, are = a, re. public?
― Neil S, Monday, 18 April 2011 18:42 (thirteen years ago) link
I evidently have a lot to learn about single letter abbreviations!
― Hardcore Bangage (Dan Peterson), Monday, 18 April 2011 18:46 (thirteen years ago) link
N/Newton is an SI unit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton_%28unit%29
― THE MAN (onimo), Monday, 18 April 2011 18:50 (thirteen years ago) link
Okay, thanks, I got that, belatedly, but I'm still confused.
BANA + N + ??? + well-known = PUBLIC.
Neil says above are = A?
― Hardcore Bangage (Dan Peterson), Monday, 18 April 2011 18:56 (thirteen years ago) link
The International System of Units[1] (abbreviated SI from French: Système international d'unités[2]) is the modern form of the metric system
Haha, I'm American, we told the metric system to bugger off years ago...
― Hardcore Bangage (Dan Peterson), Monday, 18 April 2011 18:57 (thirteen years ago) link
in that clue are = are, right?
bana/n/are/publiceric/newton/are/well-known
― portrait of velleity (woof), Monday, 18 April 2011 19:05 (thirteen years ago) link
Thank you, I'm truly appreciating the input. But holy hell, I never realized this re: SI
The system has been nearly globally adopted. Three principal exceptions are Burma (Myanmar), Liberia, and the United States.
― Hardcore Bangage (Dan Peterson), Monday, 18 April 2011 19:07 (thirteen years ago) link
& yes, the abbreviations are prob the biggest hurdle for a lot of people starting cryptics - there's a large but finite set of them, and they're very offputting, especially the traditional ones that, I think, would not be guessable (eg city = ec).
It just sounds total voodoo nerdery when you have to explain one of those clues to someone: 'Well, the sailor, that's AB, able-bodied has a pound, that's L in old money, and he's in church, CE, Church of England, yes I know we say C of E, it just is CE. So cable'
Plenty of setters are manageable without having instant recall for all of them; some setters lean on them hard, and I don't usually enjoy their puzzles as much; and yeah it took me a good while (years) of off-and-on solving to get to know the abbrevs (though you can get quickly to recognising where there's probably a stupid abbreviation in a clue).
― portrait of velleity (woof), Monday, 18 April 2011 19:28 (thirteen years ago) link
you can get quickly to recognising where there's probably a stupid abbreviation in a clue
This is it - you might not know the abbreviations but you can get to the point where you go "well, I need one more letter, and it's got to come from one of these three words" and try the first letter of them all.
(Obviously if you have all but one letter then you probably know the answer anyway, but a thought process a bit like the above does occur when you're trying out possible word fragments, especially if you get to know that the setter likes to use these things.)
― dimension hatris (a passing spacecadet), Monday, 18 April 2011 19:40 (thirteen years ago) link
I've been reading up on US units for force, mass, etc. and I think they're just being awkward. Slug!
― every day I'm (onimo), Monday, 18 April 2011 19:43 (thirteen years ago) link
>>>sailor, that's AB, able-bodied
Mind = blown.
― Hardcore Bangage (Dan Peterson), Monday, 18 April 2011 19:49 (thirteen years ago) link
It just sounds total voodoo nerdery when you have to explain one of those clues to someone:
oh yeah, i get this all the time, but i do have some converts amongst friends at this stage.
with repeated practice at any one setter you'll start to learn their little piquancies
eg crosaire- 'father' can be da, pa, or pp, prob others i can think of, for instance
― i've got blingees on my fisters (darraghmac), Monday, 18 April 2011 20:59 (thirteen years ago) link
>>>sailor, that's AB, able-bodiedMind = blown.
has a pound, that's L in old money
― under the pollcano (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 18 April 2011 21:06 (thirteen years ago) link
^^^ okay, that's voodoo nerdery for sure. (and does not translate to USA.) You mean a sticker with an L on it?
― Hardcore Bangage (Dan Peterson), Monday, 18 April 2011 21:15 (thirteen years ago) link
Wait, I've entered the world of folk etymology - it is sailor, but it just stands for able seaman apparently.
v true about getting to know setters - Araucaria seems impossible when beginning (people always complain about him - I think it's strange clues + memorable name (+ my Guardian reader social circle)), but once you get to know him he's a pussycat (sure, yes, kind of annoying pussycat with sudden spikes in viciousness & belief that popular songs of the 1930s are fair pop culture references).
― portrait of velleity (woof), Monday, 18 April 2011 21:15 (thirteen years ago) link
http://obdrive.com/images/L_Plates_rip_104.gif
― i've got blingees on my fisters (darraghmac), Monday, 18 April 2011 21:16 (thirteen years ago) link
Wikipedia says AB stands for "ABle"
― under the pollcano (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 18 April 2011 21:22 (thirteen years ago) link
oh, yes, that's what I was aiming to correct myself to, AB = sailor because short form of rank is AB, but AB(le seaman), not A(ble) B(odied).
I suspect abbreviations favour one style of setting and solving - the adding + subtracting coded letters game is part (along with letter frequency reasoning etc) of why a lot of the best solvers are maths and logic types, not straight verbal people.
― portrait of velleity (woof), Monday, 18 April 2011 21:38 (thirteen years ago) link
Maths and logic = totally not me. I liked this one a lot:
Popular, healthy Republican? Bill Clinton claimed he was not one. (7)
― Hardcore Bangage (Dan Peterson), Monday, 18 April 2011 21:54 (thirteen years ago) link
inhaler
Not bad
― i've got blingees on my fisters (darraghmac), Monday, 18 April 2011 22:24 (thirteen years ago) link
All this stuff about abbreviations and no talk of cricket? C for caught crops up a lot, B for bowled less often. Not to mention leg=on=side(=off)
Another one I've only started getting to grips with recently, pi=pious=good.
― standing on the shoulders of pissants (ledge), Tuesday, 19 April 2011 08:32 (thirteen years ago) link
and Run Out crops up almost weekly. (the aforementioned arroyo had 'run out' in the clue)
― koogs, Tuesday, 19 April 2011 08:39 (thirteen years ago) link
gtf with ur cricket, how's that for abbrvtn
― i've got blingees on my fisters (darraghmac), Tuesday, 19 April 2011 08:56 (thirteen years ago) link
^otm
― every day I'm (onimo), Tuesday, 19 April 2011 10:53 (thirteen years ago) link
Quick silver in reference to anger (4)
― every day I'm (onimo), Tuesday, 19 April 2011 10:57 (thirteen years ago) link
(I know mine are always easy - I use this thread to practice new things that come up in discussions, like abbrvtns)
― every day I'm (onimo), Tuesday, 19 April 2011 10:58 (thirteen years ago) link
RAGE
― standing on the shoulders of pissants (ledge), Tuesday, 19 April 2011 10:58 (thirteen years ago) link