― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 18:22 (nineteen years ago) link
― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 18:25 (nineteen years ago) link
Eddie Campbell tells the story in How To Be An Artist about as accurately as anybody is willing to confirm. (Basically, Billy The Sink dropped out after #2, Al Columbia was drafted in as a Sink-a-like but fell out with everyone over a girlfriend. He destroyed #3, burned what he had started of #4 and disappeared.)
― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 18:41 (nineteen years ago) link
― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 19:08 (nineteen years ago) link
― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 19:34 (nineteen years ago) link
― Josh Davis (josh_anomaly), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 19:38 (nineteen years ago) link
― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 19:42 (nineteen years ago) link
― The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 19:48 (nineteen years ago) link
― The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 19:50 (nineteen years ago) link
I think the ending is an important part of Moore's views on superheroes (at that time: in a recent interview he said "I had a bad week 15 years ago and everyone's still suffering"): the path that starts "you will do good or we will beat you up" leads swiftly to giant mind-control aliens and The Big Lie in general.
And now Ned with the news...
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 27 May 2004 10:10 (nineteen years ago) link
― Josh Anomaly (josh_anomaly), Friday, 18 June 2004 02:58 (nineteen years ago) link
Does he lie about killing them? this must be researched.
― DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 18 June 2004 08:20 (nineteen years ago) link
― Josh Anomaly (josh_anomaly), Friday, 18 June 2004 11:12 (nineteen years ago) link
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 18 June 2004 21:58 (nineteen years ago) link
― Josh Anomaly (josh_anomaly), Friday, 18 June 2004 22:15 (nineteen years ago) link
― Josh Anomaly (josh_anomaly), Friday, 18 June 2004 22:18 (nineteen years ago) link
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Sunday, 20 June 2004 22:31 (nineteen years ago) link
― Chris F. (servoret), Monday, 21 June 2004 02:25 (nineteen years ago) link
― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 21 June 2004 13:32 (nineteen years ago) link
― Josh Anomaly (josh_anomaly), Monday, 21 June 2004 14:16 (nineteen years ago) link
-- Jordan (j0rdanc0h3...), May 25th, 2004.
...but didn't anyone notice that at the very end of the comic book, in the last panel, seymour the new frontiersman office assistant guy is fumbling his hands through the papers in the 'crank file', indicating that he eventually may find Rorshach's Journal.?
and remember, it is Rorschach's journal which contains the trail leading to Ozymandias's plans, which if uncovered could threaten the world peace Veidt created.
hence the symbolism of the ketchup stain landing on seymour smiley face shirt, forming the bloodied comedian logo, implying the comedian (and the war-centric worldview to which he belongs) will have the last laugh.
― latebloomer: Pain Don't Hurt (latebloomer), Thursday, 2 June 2005 01:22 (eighteen years ago) link
I don't think the bloody smiley is a symbol for The Comedian, rather than for the whole comic (remember, the blood stain implies the death of Comedian). But Moore hints elsewhere what he thinks will happen after the ending. The sailor in the pirate stroy is obviously Ozymandias' alter ego; Ozymandias even tells he sometimes dreams of swimming towards a great ship. In the pirate story the sailor tries to save the ones he loves, but his attempt is misguided, and he fails horribly. So Moore is implying Ozymandias will eventually loose. In the end, Moore the anarchist thinks people's freedom to decide is more important than anything else. This is the biggest irony of Watchmen: in the final chapter, Rorschach the fascist becomes the hero, whereas Ozymandias the left-wing vegetarian is the villain. No matter how much we (and Moore, no doubt) revile Rorschach's ideological views, we have to sympathize with him for refusing to accept Ozymandias totalitarian plan.
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 2 June 2005 07:27 (eighteen years ago) link
From another viewpoint, Moore is saying that Ozymandias has already lost.
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 2 June 2005 09:04 (eighteen years ago) link
I agree, but that's sort of the whole theme of the comic. Imperfect perfections. Like the whole symmetry/mirror image thing - I guess most of you have noticed that chapter five has a symmetrical structure; each panel has a corresponding mirror image panel. So the fist panel of the chapter corresponds with the last panel on the first row of the final page, etc. And the two middle pages form a symmetrical image - Ozymandias hitting a guy with statue, so that they're bodies form an big "X". (X is kinda like the symbol of the whole story, just like V was that of V for Vendetta - in V the direction of the story is linear, down and up, whereas Watchmen is all about choices, crossroads, open endings. Seymour can either pick the book or not.) But for the whole story to be symmetrical the mirror image should be between chapters 6 and 7 (because the whole story has 12 chapters), not in chapter 5. So it's a broken symmetry, just like with the bloody smiley, just like with Comedian's face. Imperfect perfection.
Note: I didn't come up with these ideas by myself. If you have lots of spare time, I'd suggest visiting this excellent Watchmen site.
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 2 June 2005 10:45 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Saturday, 4 June 2005 05:55 (eighteen years ago) link
― DV (dirtyvicar), Sunday, 5 June 2005 08:59 (eighteen years ago) link
― Huk-L, Monday, 6 June 2005 04:22 (eighteen years ago) link
Or maybe Moore just didn't know shit about computers in 1986.
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 06:38 (eighteen years ago) link
WATCHMEN
Variety (subscription required) is reporting that the Alan Moore property has been placed in "turnaround," meaning that the studio has effectively pulled the plug on any movie through Paramount. The producers, Larry Gordon and Lloyd Levin are taking the movie to other studios, hoping to get re-signed. Thanks to Michael Dunne for the heads up on that.
― Huk-L, Tuesday, 7 June 2005 14:13 (eighteen years ago) link
easy to crack computers were a real staple of 1980s fiction - viz. Wargames.
I think, though, that it's possible Alan Moore just knew dick about computer systems. See how easy it was for V to hack into Fate in V For Vendetta.
― DV (dirtyvicar), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 15:21 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 16:33 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ian John50n (orion), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 20:08 (eighteen years ago) link
yes, especially if they were alternately red and green panels where the lights from a nearby hotel sign were flashing on and off. 8)
the computer system told him the password was almost right and would he like to add something to it, the II in Rameses II iirc. real computers would never do this but it was necessary for the plot (pointing out that Ozy associated more with RII ("Rameses The Great") rather than RI who only reigned for a couple of years - more of his 'latent narcissism')
― koogs (koogs), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 12:35 (eighteen years ago) link
is that a superhero emoticon?
― Huk-L, Tuesday, 14 June 2005 14:03 (eighteen years ago) link
― Austin Still (Austin, Still), Thursday, 16 June 2005 01:56 (eighteen years ago) link
Maybe the password scene would've worked better if it was "shot" from behind the monitor?
― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 12:52 (eighteen years ago) link
― Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 12:55 (eighteen years ago) link
― Huk-L (Huk-L), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 13:47 (eighteen years ago) link
I'M POSTING THIS AGAIN BCUZ NOBODY SAID SHIT ABOUT IT LAST TIME AND I'M POUTING.
― I do feel guilty for getting any perverse amusement out of it (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 14:27 (eighteen years ago) link
― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 14:29 (eighteen years ago) link
― Austin Still (Austin, Still), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 14:30 (eighteen years ago) link
― I do feel guilty for getting any perverse amusement out of it (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 14:41 (eighteen years ago) link
― walter kranz (walterkranz), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 01:39 (eighteen years ago) link
Stir and strain into a cocktail glass. Garnish with isotopes.
― Huk-L (Huk-L), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 13:58 (eighteen years ago) link
― Austin Still (Austin, Still), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 14:00 (eighteen years ago) link
― Mark C (Markco), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 14:38 (eighteen years ago) link
I had a funny conversation yesterday with a guy who is discovering "graphic novels", and was interested in reading Watchmen becuae he has seen it showing up in lists of best books of the 20th century and stuff. The great thing was that he seemed to basically have never heard of superheroes, so he was saying "I've looked at it in shops, and it seems to be about, you know, crime fighters and stuff, but it is meant to be very good".
It would be great to have never heard of superheroes... it would be so exciting to then discover them.
― The Real Dirty Vicar, Monday, 19 May 2008 12:10 (fifteen years ago) link
I'm not sure you could deal with superheros, without that childhood grounding.
if you have no previous, then watchmen has nothing to subvert.
― Hamildan, Monday, 19 May 2008 12:28 (fifteen years ago) link
I think the whole subversion angle is a bit overstated. For a lot of people, Watchmen would have been the first comic they ever read, and they still love it.
― The Real Dirty Vicar, Monday, 19 May 2008 12:30 (fifteen years ago) link
Yeah, strip it of all the deconstructive post-modernism and it's still a cracking mystery-cum-science-fiction story.
― chap, Monday, 19 May 2008 12:40 (fifteen years ago) link
I saw the graphic comic. His mask is actually a woman’s dress.— EvanBarracuda14 (@EvanBarracuda14) July 15, 2020
― bat ain't Thad (sic), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 19:07 (three years ago) link
*mind blown*
― koogs, Wednesday, 15 July 2020 19:15 (three years ago) link
i'll give it a chance because i still like Tom King
also DC Black Label has been retaining good cover designers
― Nhex, Thursday, 16 July 2020 02:08 (three years ago) link
That 'Batman: Damned' book is really nice. I have it on my stack to read next.
― earlnash, Thursday, 16 July 2020 04:56 (three years ago) link
hope Alan enjoys this. maybe after watching the tv series
― Temporary Erogenous Zone (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 16 July 2020 18:24 (three years ago) link
in his flat in London
― bat ain't Thad (sic), Thursday, 16 July 2020 20:10 (three years ago) link
Alan famously resides in his hometown of Northampton, sic. surprised at that from you
― Temporary Erogenous Zone (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 16 July 2020 20:13 (three years ago) link
I base all my Alan Moore knowledge on the public statements of Zack Snyder, as fact-checked by entertainment media
― bat ain't Thad (sic), Thursday, 16 July 2020 21:01 (three years ago) link
Anyways, within a few decades people would still have forgotten the alien and the cold war would be back in effect, unless Ozymandias would keep bombarding the Earth again and again with new aliens.
just finished the tv show and saw this early thread comment !
― mark e, Wednesday, 26 August 2020 18:57 (three years ago) link
ahh ... just re-read - its a quote from an AM interview.that makes more sense now.
― mark e, Wednesday, 26 August 2020 18:58 (three years ago) link
perhaps AM gave lindelof some pointers
― Temporary Erogenous Zone (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 26 August 2020 19:00 (three years ago) link
Along with his blessing.
― the secret of sucess is to know all rules ...and brake them (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 26 August 2020 19:02 (three years ago) link
If Dr. Manhattan had just destroyed all nukes on earth, like the Star Child in 2001 or Superman in Superman IV, there wouldn't be a need for any of it.
― “Pizza House!” (morrisp), Wednesday, 26 August 2020 19:02 (three years ago) link
that's not a quote from Alan Moore, it's a quote from Tuomas!
― Piven After Midnight (The Yellow Kid), Wednesday, 26 August 2020 19:36 (three years ago) link
Wait...did no one ever tell you? Perhaps you should sit down for a moment.
― the secret of sucess is to know all rules ...and brake them (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 26 August 2020 20:01 (three years ago) link
alwayshasbeen.jpeg
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Wednesday, 26 August 2020 20:12 (three years ago) link
morrisp you forgot Alfie O'Meagan from The Nth Man
― sound of scampo talk to me (El Tomboto), Wednesday, 26 August 2020 20:18 (three years ago) link
I've never heard of that! (I specialize in Kubrick & Golan-Globus; I'm fuzzy on everything else.)
― “Pizza House!” (morrisp), Wednesday, 26 August 2020 20:31 (three years ago) link
This is the I Love Comics board, what do you mean by coming over here with no knowledge of a series set completely outside the continuity of every other comic book in publication that only ran for 16 issues three decades ago
― sound of scampo talk to me (El Tomboto), Wednesday, 26 August 2020 20:51 (three years ago) link
(did that sound like sic? if so please be assured I am only joking)
― sound of scampo talk to me (El Tomboto), Wednesday, 26 August 2020 20:52 (three years ago) link
It totally did sound like sic! Lol
― “Pizza House!” (morrisp), Wednesday, 26 August 2020 21:02 (three years ago) link
― Piven After Midnight (The Yellow Kid),
so it is.apologies.thought he was referring to the AM interview linked above as opposed to quoting himself on a dead ilm board.
― mark e, Thursday, 27 August 2020 08:19 (three years ago) link
TBF, I'm sure many people who've read the comic have thought of Veidt's plan as being flawed in that way, Lindelof included.
― Tuomas, Monday, 31 August 2020 06:31 (three years ago) link
This is discussed in the comic, and Dr. Manhattan admits he probably couldn't destroy all the nukes in time before some of them hit their targets, so that option is off the table.
― Tuomas, Monday, 31 August 2020 06:34 (three years ago) link
I don’t recall that, but not surprised it was addressed (why does he have to wait for their launch to be imminent, though? he can’t just teleport around the globe and vaporize them on the DL?)
― “Pizza House!” (morrisp), Monday, 31 August 2020 06:46 (three years ago) link
(Tho I guess the nuclear powers could always just built more nukes... which is a variation on the continuous-squid problem being discussed. How do you truly end a cold war, etc.)
― “Pizza House!” (morrisp), Monday, 31 August 2020 06:50 (three years ago) link