Tusk Vs The White Album

"Never Make Me Cry" is the cruel aftermath. Everything she's predicted has come true: he's a liar, a cheater, a horrible disappointment. But she keeps her dignity. You feel all this in the wrecked pathos of McVie's voice, trembling and delayed and, finally, isolated thanks to Buckingham's production.

I have to think about it some more. Thse two songs have always seemed like the emotional core of an album that's often lauded as a "mere" triumph of a mad genius behind the boards.

As for Nicks' weaker songs, well, I must admit that "Sisters of the Moon" is one song about Rhiannon too many. "Angel" never did much for me either. But "Sara" - wow. It was Lester Bangs who defended Nicks as a songwriter of great insight, and he cited the line "When you build your house, then call me home" as an example.

Re Stevie and Christine: Sara and Angel are great, Sister of the Moon OK, Storms kinda boring. I'm also not such a fan of Brown Eyes. Beautiful Child is a much nicer song, but it would be even better if it didn't come after Brown Eyes and sound a little the same. But that's about it for stuff I don't like on Tusk.

Also, the "experimentation" on the White Album was very cliched even then; the freshest thing about it was its range, not anything they actually did. Tusk sounded like absolutely nothing else in 1980.

Mmmm well, on Tango yes (the peerless "Little Lies" and "Everywhere") but Mirage boasts "Hold Me," "Love in Store," and then two just awfully bland songs ("Wish You Were Here," "Only Over You").

Yes. And that includes the surviving Beatles and the estates of those deceased.

Still, I'll give the edge to The Beatles on the strength of "While My Guitar Gently Weeps," "Happiness Is A Warm Gun," "I'm So Tired, and "Everybody's Got Something To Hide Except Me And My Monkey."

Kim Thayil circa Superunknown cops heavily from "Monkey," and that's no knock on Kim Thayil.

"Also, the 'experimentation' on the White Album was very cliched even then; the freshest thing about it was its range, not anything they actually did."

If you want to say that "Revolution 9" was "very cliched" because it was just more musique concrete, then fine, I guess. I actually like the way the piece works in the context of the album. But otherwise, the range of the album that you mention WAS experimental, in a sense. The White Album is a startling thing for a band to have created one year after they did Sgt. Pepper.

"Not anything they actually did," you say? They're the ones that made the music.

"I think Stevie's songs are great, or at least, just as great as her other songs. I mean, she's never been anywhere near the caliber of Lindsey or Christie as far as songwriting goes..."

What? What?!

Exhibit A:

"Dreams" written by a hot young Stevie Nicks:

Have you any dreams you’d like to sell?
Dreams of loneliness...
Like a heartbeat... drives you mad...
In the stillness of remembering what you had...

And just to give her the benefit of the doubt, let's consider the best work of McVie from the same album- "You Make Loving Fun" - Exhibit B:

I never did believe in miracles,
But I've a feeling it's time to try.
I never did believe in the ways of magic,
But I'm beginning to wonder why.

yeah, I never did either, and now I really don't...and it gets worse. I'll spare you.

(I haven't figured out the italics thing yet)

Fuuck yoooooouuuuuu

I'd have to go with the White Album though and i love it all. Part of the reason I like it so much is because it's imperfect and sprawling. People who want to split it down to a 'perfect' 14 track album or whatever are missing the point about what makes it so good.

I can understand the hating on Revolution 9 but again it's part of what makes this album great. What other band of their size would be sticking tracks like this on an album and sandwiched up beside an OTT string laden nursery rhyme. You could argue it's self indulgent and no one was questioning what they were doing but I'm glad it's on there. A real headphone treat and bringing something like this to the mainstream is defnitely not an expiremental cliche.

Tusk is great too though I am a recent convert.

I'll end up getting "Tusk" and listening and go "Mergh"

For Savoy Truffle!

I realized the other day that the song "Tusk" taps into the sort of primal rush that the Animal Collective have done so well recently.

I realized the other day that the song "Tusk" taps into the sort of primal rush that the Animal Collective have done so well recently.

Yeah, I've been noticing a massive similarity between Tusk era Lindsey and Animal Collective. Especially on Ledge and That's Enough for Me. Who's with me?

I've always imagined AnCo covering the song "Family Man" would be a really good fit. And also been trying to think if anyone current sounds like Tusk-era Lindsey.

Tusk isn't nearly as scary as The White Album

This is not in poll format but the answer is obviously TUSK at least on ILM.

(And it is one of the reasons I prefer this forum over many others)

the answer is tusk in real life too

tusk by the dead c is best
― Ward Fowler (Ward Fowler), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 10:24 (twelve years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

OTM!

I love Tusk and the White Album is far from my favourite Beatles album so I might go with FM on this one.
Still I'm not sure there's anything I love as much as "Dear Prudence" on Tusk... "Sara" would come close.

Unfashionable answer: White Album. I like Tusk a lot but to me it feels a bit like listening to four albums on shuffle, whereas WA is more of a lucky dip, like the best double-albums should be

WA is my favorite album of all time, pretty sure it's not going anywhere. even the tossed off tracks i consider legendary.

Tusk is really good though. i got into it last year. "Save Me a Place" and "Sarah" are so great. i love the sloppy diy feel of it all.

tusk

the appeal of a double album is it gives the artist an ability to stretch out, and if Rumours for example is the center of a wheel, Tusk is a collection of all these adventures up and down the various spokes of that wheel. I pick The White Album because it goes much farther out & it's so much stranger and scarier like I said, also longer... its working title A Doll's House makes perfect sense, reminds me of the Fassbinder quote about his filmography: “I hope to build a house with my films. Some of them are the cellar, some are the walls, and some are the windows. But I hope in time there will be a house.” The White Album is that house.

Tusk is one of the best Fleetwood Mac albums.

The Beatles isn't one of the best Beatles albums, and probably - when it comes to the crunch - their weakest "proper" studio album 1965-1969.

Well, that was easy.

there's at least 4 or 5 songs on TWA i don't care much for

i like all the songs on tusk

tusk wins, arithmetic

The Beatles isn't scary at all. Do people actually shit their pants to 'Martha My Dear'? I'm sure there's a name for that condition.

the schizophrenic sequencing of The White Album is what makes it terrifying. Mother Nature's Son followed by Me and My Monkey. Helter Skelter followed by Long, Long, Long. Glass Onion as third track! and of course Revolution 9 into Good Night. it's not scary like a horror movie, it's a vague unsettling paranoia, the comedown from the LSD dreams of Sgt. Pepper and MMT. it's the whiplash between styles & attitudes & personalities that makes it such a beguiling work. And fwiw I wouldn't cut a single song.

I shit my pants when I hear Red Rose Speedway-era Paul songs.

I agree that 'Good Night' sounds a bit strange coming after 'Revolution 9', but I don't really get that vibe elsewhere. Actually, I find a lot of the songs on The Beatles to be quite silly, including quite a fair bit of Lennon's stuff. Take Paul's stuff off the record and there ain't a lot of genre hopping going on there either.

there's at least 4 or 5 songs on TWA i don't care much for

i like all the songs on tusk

tusk wins, arithmetic

― brimstead, Friday, October 27, 2017 12:43 PM (fourteen minutes ago)

otm

I shit my pants when I hear Red Rose Speedway-era Paul songs.

― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, October 27, 2017 5:53 PM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I hardly ever listen to Red Rose Speedway, bar 'My Love' ...

i love tusk to death but you can see how the white album could inspire murder when you listen to it. fucking blackbird man. that guitar has killed me for 40+ years. what are ya gonna do? there is majik there.

Actually, I find a lot of the songs on The Beatles to be quite silly, including quite a fair bit of Lennon's stuff.

that's exactly what I was saying. Silliness bookended by intense rock and crazy experiments and somber odes. Total emotional whiplash.

Take Paul's stuff off the record and there ain't a lot of genre hopping going on there either.

Julia / Me and My Monkey / Glass Onion / Revolution 9 / While My Guitar Gently Weeps / Long, Long, Long / Good Night / Piggies / Dear Prudence / Savoy Truffle / Happiness is a Warm Gun. there's a lot going on there

Fleetwood Mac suck this isnt even a contest

I suspect there's more than a few songs on The Beatles that would have been swept under the carpet and forgotten about by now if they hadn't appeared on a Beatles album. A lot of these tracks have been over-scrutinised for this exact reason.

Donald Trump vs The White Album

i don't think you have a soul

... or understand the concept of 'funny'... or 'spooky'... or anything else really.

Probably one of the moments where it's not trying to be funny ... the ending to 'Happiness is a Warm Gun' is a great example of this, the "when ah hold yooou in maaaah arms" part made me laugh out loud the first time I heard it.

Given the provenance of the song, the idea that the band (and John specifically) were not trying to be funny here is . . . "mind-boggling" doesn't even BEGIN to cover it. Deliberately obtuse, but in a Dunning-Kruger kind of way.

yeah that shit is funny and i’m pretty sure they knew it

they're definitely not trying to take themselves seriously on that song. or pretty much any song on that album save for, like, Julia or something

The Beatles as a series of jokes. Hmm, yeah... I can get on board with that assessment.

Take one of "Happiness, BOOM BOOM hrah ah ah ah"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/875000/images/_879875_basilbrush_300.jpg

Funniest is Yoko's line in Bungalow Bill. I always thought it was John doing a silly voice.

Also the version of Obladi on Anthology at the end of which John is mocking Paul with, "Obladi blada, brother."

Yeah it never occurred to me that that was Yoko. Bungalow Bill's Beach Boys analogue would be 'Little Pad'

Ooh good connection

Arent Yoko (and Patti?) also on Birthday?

Yoko also appears on Revolution 9 'you become naked...'

Speaking of which, I wouldn't mind hearing Turrican's opinion of Smiley Smile, which is one of my favourite albums of all time and for similar reasons to White Album.

I guess the unifying things between all these, including Tusk and also Sandinista and countless others is that they're 'burn out' albums with cult followings.
Band reach what is largely regarded as the peak of their work. They've worked hard, put all their creative powers into their album. They've sweated and worked and collaborated with each other and argued and drugged themselves and had love affairs and the world loves them.
They set out to make a follow-up, but find it impossible to summon the patience to go through these motions. They're still brimming with ideas, their egos suitably lubricated, but the sheer effort involved with working like that and living with each other again is too much.
So they work fast and get a bit scrappy - 'we know what we're doing this time, we're The Beatles, we don't need to sweat over this like we used to cos we're pros'.
They take shortcuts, pump out the songs, preferably with as few of the other members around as possible.
And so you end up with these big, dopey, mishmash albums that are weirdly appealing but tonally all over the place. They don't quite compare to their predecessors because they're in a different league. Critically, they come across as flawed but in an endearing way.

FYI the White Album is better than Tusk

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, November 7, 2017 2:19 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

probably but I only listen to Tusk anymore

The Smiley Smile version of 'Wind Chimes' is a zillion times creepier than anything on The Beatles. I've said this before on a Beach Boys thread, but the thing about Smiley Smile is that it's a far less commercial/inviting record than Smile would have been, and more uncompromising too.

You mean "Wonderful" yeah?

Xp Well I wasn't asking about which was creepier. I agree, Smiley Smile has some very eerie moments on it - Fall Breaks and Back To Winter is another.
Would you say the same about Peppers/TWA as you would about Pet Sounds/Smiley Smile?

I take it TWA didn't start off as originally intended either.. did the Beatles have another concept in mind before choosing on a double album of genre exercises?

Bungalow Bill is garbage, Little Pad is transplendent, I don't see the connection.

You mean "Wonderful" yeah?

― Mark G, Wednesday, November 8, 2017 4:13 PM (twenty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That too. The Smile version of 'Wonderful' is stunningly beautiful, but the Smiley Smile sounds like a paranoid episode set to music.

*version

Would you say the same about Peppers/TWA as you would about Pet Sounds/Smiley Smile?

No. I'm also unconvinced that The Beatles ever had a concept in mind for The Beatles beyond them having a lot of material between them and seemingly being unwilling/unable (for whatever reason) to work out what to record and what not to record.

Yeah, I think it's significant that there is only one tiny photo of them altogether on the poster inamongst the other pics

i love the mouse on mars track that samples "wind chimes"

Woah, what now?

harvey sid fisher was on my radio show a few weeks ago!
tusk is better

xp It's on vulvaland, samples a bit of the vocals and speeds them up, it sounds really cool