The Associates: Have the years been kind?

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No, but to hell with history and received wisdom. Y'all wanna know what makes Sulk such a fabulous album? The drums. A drum kit constructed out of snare drums only! How cool is that?

Ramon Mayor, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Why didn't I see this thread before?

Of course, Rankine-era Associates are one of the all-time GRATES.

Am I a fhoul for feeling that "Club Country" looms large over "Party Fears Two"?

Andy K., Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

No. I'm coming to feel the same.

Robin Carmody, Monday, 10 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

one month passes...
having stumbled upon the associates quite by accident, i can honestly say, yes, the years have been kind. i believe i "borrowed" a cassette copy of sulk in the early 90's and i have loved it ever since. i can also recommend the compilation "popera" for the associate neophyte. am i the only one who is genuinely fond of billy's later output including the faux-human league-melodrama of "waiting for the love boat" or the entire first side of the LP "wild and lonely"? also. i suggest you pick up the biography "glamor chase" for the gory details.

Stephen Dixon, Tuesday, 22 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

dave lee travis said he wish billy mckenzie, marc almond and kevin roland form a band together and let us know their tour dates so we can avoid them. he was a bitter man.

XStatic Peace, Tuesday, 22 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Wild and Lonely was gloopy fluff for the most part, I think. Great voice, terrible arrangements, alas!

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 22 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

i still have that "the 80s" thing that the late show did (3 hours on new years eve 1989) which was a fun retrospective of 80s music. (They were ahead of their time with nostalgia -- eat your heart out "i wuv the X0s"), and they do feature on it in the "Barking Mad" section alongside Grace Jones. it's a bit over-watched now and a bit blurry, but still fun from time to time.

Alan Trewartha, Tuesday, 22 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Though there has been a lot of interest in Sulk era Associates, I think I slightly prefered the post-punk era of the first album and the 12"s that ended up on 4th Drawer. Monoproperty Girl is their best song. Are their any live recordings from the early period?

http://www.btinternet.com/~cateran/edinburgh/sinatra1x1.gif

Alexander Blair, Tuesday, 22 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

NO I'M NOT JEALOUS OR ANYTHING, ALEXANDER, OH NO.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 22 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

There's the Associates there - um, yes, that's right, the Associates with "Party Fears Two" which I think is really a silly pompous title for a song really, I mean why can't they do a good straightforward song title like "Classic" or "Censors Working Overtime", telling us exactly what they're thinking? And I bet they support the whingeing Labour Party and the nurses who take our lives into their hands with their arrogance that they want to get paid more than the newsagent down the road from my home in Cheam with the scary Alsatian, oh, what a bore, remember nurses, IF YOU DON'T WORK, WE DON'T WORK!!! More great Radio 1 pop music coming up after the news with the Goombay Hermes House, erm, Dance Band ...

Hairy Cockflake, Tuesday, 22 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

four months pass...
I only just heard of the Associates but have known their work for sometime ever since I first heard the jingly goodness of Party Fears Two, which was endlessly repeated during the end credits of Radio 4's "Weekending" show for most of the 80s and early 90s.

I was pestering people in the office by humming the tune to see if anybody knew what it was but nobody knew. Then just the other day they played it on advert for the CD "Alternative Eighties" so I had to buy it. Now my mind is at rest! Strange CD, mind.

Zooty McFrooty, Wednesday, 29 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Since this has come up again, let me say (again) just how amazing the demos album 'Double Hipness' is.

Dr. C, Wednesday, 29 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

ten months pass...
i've had kitchen person buzzing around my brain for two days now

gaz (gaz), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 02:52 (twenty-one years ago) link

five months pass...
I needed something, I was at a loss, I decided now was the time for Sulk. "No" stalking and floating out of my speaker like a delirious revenant and all is again right with the world.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 22 September 2003 03:51 (twenty years ago) link

i might play it when i get home too

gaz (gaz), Monday, 22 September 2003 04:01 (twenty years ago) link

just some info for hardcore associates fans: there's two spanish bands, hidrogenesse and astrud (actually their whole label, austrohungaro.com) that are completely fond of billy mckenzie's music and vocal style, and they do it really well and get a new sound out of their tribute to the associates. i absolutely recommend it to all.

joan vich (joan vich), Monday, 22 September 2003 11:49 (twenty years ago) link

Anyone got a take on Glamour Chase, which indeed found its release last year?

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Monday, 22 September 2003 13:33 (twenty years ago) link

"The Glamour Chase" was well worth the wait - even if the impact of it was inevitably dulled from hearing various MP3s over the last few years.

It's probably a better album than "Wild & Lonely", but probably less than essential if you've already got the Rankine-era albums.

I seem to remember that there is still supposed to be another album's worth of unreleased Boris Blank collaborations. That must be the last of the releasable stuff in the vaults.

With regard to the posthumous releases, I would have prefered "Smile"-esque compilations of the Winter Academy and Outerpol albums, as opposed to the scattershot approach of "Beyond The Sun" et al.

BTW, I've still got a sealed copy of the deleted "Eurocentric" if anyone is after it.

Marcel Gallingez (Marcel Gallingez), Monday, 22 September 2003 15:24 (twenty years ago) link

Eurocentric, that was his solo album followup to Wild and Lonely? I am definitely interested...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 22 September 2003 15:38 (twenty years ago) link

Do you mean like this. I'd love one, but I have mouths to feed.

Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Monday, 22 September 2003 16:43 (twenty years ago) link

Blimey!

Didn't realise it was already worth £130. At this rate it's going to overtake my other two 'nest egg' records (Radiohead's "Drill" EP (vinyl) and XTC's "Wrapped in Grey" CD single).

Ned, you might be confusing "Eurocentric" with "Outernational" - Billy's only 'proper' solo album, released in 1992. I've got one of those as well, but it's far too good to sell...

Marcel Gallingez (Marcel Gallingez), Monday, 22 September 2003 17:32 (twenty years ago) link

Ah, clarity is mine. :-)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 22 September 2003 17:36 (twenty years ago) link

one month passes...
i have had 4th drawer down burnt for months, and after spending all of that time trying to parse the music, i realized i have no idea what the lyrics mean at all. i have found a website with the the actual words, which has made the music seem even more cryptic to me.

it still sounds fresh as hell to my ears btw.

Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 05:49 (twenty years ago) link

actually not all of the songs are frustrating, but explain "property girl" if you can. "no managerial talks"?

Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 06:07 (twenty years ago) link

i happened to hear "tell me easter's on friday" for the first time the other week, on a compilation tape. i've been completely in love with it ever since, so i'll definitely try to pick up an associates album before long.

Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 06:17 (twenty years ago) link

i am thinking that at this point, it seems the most essential are:
1. Fourth Drawer Down
2. Sulk
3. Radio One Sessions Volume One

all remastered in the last three years.

Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 06:19 (twenty years ago) link

thanks! i may have to resort to amazon, i don't think i've ever seen any of their albums on sale around here - but then i live in a particularly un-musical town.

Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 06:23 (twenty years ago) link

Aaron OTM. Get them. OR ELSE.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 06:24 (twenty years ago) link

where do you live? i am in the DC area in the u.s. and i am having a hard time getting them even though i work for a record store. i had to write up a manual special order for them off of our main data system, and i might not be able to get them at all (which means no discount !), which is strange because we are able to order, stock and carry other strange fruit releases. amazon seems to have them though.

ned any help on the lyrics?

Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 06:30 (twenty years ago) link

tucson. possibly the one major city in america without a tower records!

Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 07:20 (twenty years ago) link

eight months pass...
Is there ever going to be a re-release of the original Affectionate Punch without the synth overdubs? That may be my favorite album of theirs.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 19:34 (nineteen years ago) link

Dan, Dave T. made Tim Paxton make me a CD copy of that with color-copied artwork. Yes, it's fantastic. Esp. given all the other reissues, I suspect it's a rights thing.

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 19:44 (nineteen years ago) link

Dan, I've got the original Fiction vinyl, and I'd be happy to make you a tape if you want.

Clarke B. (Clarke B.), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 19:45 (nineteen years ago) link

I have the LP, but thanks anyway. I just mean it deserves release. Don't know about rights as the 2nd version of The Affectionate Punch had a CD release.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 19:51 (nineteen years ago) link

three months pass...
"Here's a message from Jude of the MacKenzie Estate regarding The Affectionate Punch, as sent to Associates News List by Francois 30 Aug 2004: "The (...) original version of The Affectionate Punch has moved a stage closer to becoming a reality. As I'm sure you knew, the master tape of the original 1980 album had been lost without a trace since the 1982 remixed version supplanted it as the official release. While it is possible to master CDs from vinyl (with varying degrees of success), this is no real substitute for a 24bit digital master of the original tape. We were therefore astonished and elated when a duplicate tape of the original master recently turned up in Germany. It seems that the duplicate was made for Polydor's European pressing of the original album in 1980. It then went into storage at the pressing plant, where it had languished unnoticed for the past twenty four years. As such, the tape was apparently in good condition. It has now been transferred to a DAT, which has been brought to London to await remastering. This is not the end of the process by any means, but Polydor, who own the rights to the album, have indicated that they are keen to go ahead with a reissue deal. Negotiations notwithstanding, we can now be sure that WHEN The Affectionate Punch sees a new dawn, it will be in all it's morning glory. The October release date posted by Amazon was a provisional, somewhat over-zealous announcement on their part. In fact we're using the 25th Anniversary of the album's original release – ie: next year – to help Polydor find a good commercial reason to go ahead with it. Alan, Michael and myself have yet to agree new terms with Polydor, so there is no realistic chance of a release this year. Also, no decisions can be taken until the CD master is approved. But as I have said before, it is only a matter of time. Jude."

cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 10:28 (nineteen years ago) link

(Probably not the appropriate place to ask, but were Scars -as mentioned on the flyer upthread- any good? Saw their album recently and it looked a tad dodgy, like some sort of Drum Theatre atrocity (well maybe not quite that bad) but now I see them in such fine company and I'm starting to hum and ho...)

NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 10:47 (nineteen years ago) link

they had an early release on Fast which is essential, it's on some of the Fast Mutant Pop and Rigour Discipline Disgust type comps, 2 songs called Adultery and Horrorshow. The album, while not lacking in some charm, isn't nearly as good.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 13:59 (nineteen years ago) link

Noted and filed away. Now for the Associates = ABOUT GODDAMN TIME. But I'm glad that it has been provoked by this happy find.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 14:06 (nineteen years ago) link

How does the original compare to the remixed version anyway? Is it really better?

JC (JC A.), Thursday, 7 October 2004 01:54 (nineteen years ago) link

i like the first one! but i had it for a while and grew to love it and then of course the "the way we really wanted it" one came out and its a bit of a disappointment to be honest.

gaz (gaz), Thursday, 7 October 2004 01:58 (nineteen years ago) link

I remember liking it better enough to give away the remixed version but that was a long time ago.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 7 October 2004 02:00 (nineteen years ago) link

this thread's revival reminds me that JC's retraction above is one of my all time favourite things EVER on ILM

Paul (scifisoul), Thursday, 7 October 2004 02:34 (nineteen years ago) link

Billy McKenzie and Marc Almond are my girlfriend's favourite singers -I can only add that I just would like to sing like Billy.

Marco Damiani (Marco D.), Thursday, 7 October 2004 06:47 (nineteen years ago) link

I like both versions a great deal.

Andy K (Andy K), Thursday, 7 October 2004 11:36 (nineteen years ago) link

Billy McKenzie and Marc Almond are my girlfriend's favourite singers

You are to please tell her that my estimation of her has grown even stronger.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 October 2004 12:01 (nineteen years ago) link

two weeks pass...
actually not all of the songs are frustrating, but explain "property girl" if you can. "no managerial talks"?

"Mona Property Girl" (and its superior incarnation "A Girl Named Property") should be pretty obvious...it's a rambling about females being looked upon as Earth-mothers/all-giving goddesses and having tribute paid to them by naming things after them as a sort of worship or as a means of comfort or company (like the song says) taken to silly proportions... ("Mona property girl...Mona property world...Mona office blocks...") I think it's a funny song, probably my favourite by Associates.

Ian Moraine (Eastern Mantra), Monday, 25 October 2004 22:37 (nineteen years ago) link

thanks. ive never been good at parsing lyrics as opposed to prose which is maybe why i like Basic Channel so much hehe.

Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Monday, 25 October 2004 23:26 (nineteen years ago) link

A personal shout-out for Double Hipness leftover "Geese" is in order — great, soaring melody and Levine-esque post-punk guitar...

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 15:31 (nineteen years ago) link

five months pass...
Oh god I love this band. (Just finished listening to the first disc of Double Hipness in a long while.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 24 April 2005 19:11 (eighteen years ago) link

Tum! Tra-la-la, tra, tra-la-la-la la-la...
Tum! Tra-la-la, tra, tra-la-la-la lum!

cleaning Paper House?

dan selzer, Friday, 21 October 2022 14:07 (one year ago) link

Don't forget to clean the mattress downstairs full of brown peppered holes.

Fronted by a bearded Phil Collins (Tom D.), Friday, 21 October 2022 14:10 (one year ago) link

Cleaning house to _The Affectionate Punch_🧼🕺


Sad to see that you're suffering, work hard at being a something.

big movers, hot steppers + long shaker intros (breastcrawl), Friday, 21 October 2022 14:14 (one year ago) link

wrong album obv, and also just an affectionate punch

big movers, hot steppers + long shaker intros (breastcrawl), Friday, 21 October 2022 14:15 (one year ago) link

Don't forget to tidy up the fourth drawer down.

giraffe, Friday, 21 October 2022 14:20 (one year ago) link

Amused as always by y'all ❤️

willem, Friday, 21 October 2022 14:29 (one year ago) link

After all the cleaning, you'll be sweaty and dirty so you'll have a shower...

Ned Raggett, Friday, 21 October 2022 14:53 (one year ago) link

zed is the black sheep of the alphabet.

wait am I doing this right?

dan selzer, Friday, 21 October 2022 16:27 (one year ago) link

Are you cleaning your property girl?

Lord Pickles (Boring, Maryland), Friday, 21 October 2022 22:52 (one year ago) link

two months pass...

Just read that Alan Rankine died yesterday.

PaulTMA, Tuesday, 3 January 2023 13:00 (one year ago) link

Yeah, news spreading rapidly. A damn shame, too young and he was such a vocal supporter of the band’s legacy and Billy’s genius. So strange to think that the remaining core musicians that created _Sullk_ are Michael Dempsey and Martha Ladly.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 3 January 2023 13:55 (one year ago) link

On FB a few years ago, there were some whisperings that he and Dempsey were considering a tour with another singer, possibly David McAlmont. Clearly nothing came of it, but I would have been OK with checking it out.

PaulTMA, Tuesday, 3 January 2023 14:43 (one year ago) link

It would have made a lovely tribute show, and McAlmont did work with Mackenzie in the years before the latter's passing. Ah well.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 3 January 2023 15:12 (one year ago) link

Oh fuck no! RIP Alan, thanks for the beautiful music

o shit the sheriff (NickB), Tuesday, 3 January 2023 17:09 (one year ago) link

RIP Alan Rankine, creator of amongst the most joyous magnificent pop music of all time.

No Associates = No Ladytron.

💔https://t.co/lLujdh3ucf

— Ladytron (@LadytronMusic) January 3, 2023

StanM, Tuesday, 3 January 2023 18:34 (one year ago) link

very, very sad news. lots of people i know locally were taught by him and all, without exception, found him an incredibly inspiring human being. he'd really go above and beyond to help people out.

stirmonster, Tuesday, 3 January 2023 22:52 (one year ago) link

I heard a couple of pretty great podcast interviews with Rankine a few months ago. I think this was one of them, think there was at least one other
https://open.spotify.com/episode/2NHxKyjHbAevQBWjFpy1Y6?si=1f287889b2e54345

would have been great to get a memoir from him.

Did love his instrument playing on the Associates material. Wish there was more elsewhere, not sure if his solo material was anywhere near as good. He seemed to touch on Krautrock among a number of other things in the textures on that Associates stuff anyway

Stevolende, Tuesday, 3 January 2023 23:23 (one year ago) link

would have been great to get a memoir from him.

he was quite often a 'talking head' on scottish televsion music programmes and always had the best stories.

he was also such a phenomenal producer and i wonder if he was the first person in the world ever to distort an 808 kick drum?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnHaXrjjWEQ

stirmonster, Tuesday, 3 January 2023 23:40 (one year ago) link

as much as i loved billy's voice, their eponymous instrumental was always a favourite of mine. what a great chuggy groove:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtC8zVAsJa8

o shit the sheriff (NickB), Wednesday, 4 January 2023 00:07 (one year ago) link

yes! so great! one of my fave 12"s ever.

stirmonster, Wednesday, 4 January 2023 00:26 (one year ago) link

Having only discovered the Associates and Billy McKenzie a few years ago (one of those, why didn’t I discover them sooner things) this is sad. Rankine and McKenzie were such a great team.

Lord Pickles (Boring, Maryland), Wednesday, 4 January 2023 01:16 (one year ago) link

Hey, never too late to realize how great they were.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 4 January 2023 02:11 (one year ago) link

I only discovered them a few years ago on a documentary about 80s scottish music. Sulk is by far my favorite thing by them and I really wish it could have kept going with that lineup. Will watch the Glamour Chase documentary soon and hope I can track down his solo albums someday.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 7 January 2023 18:43 (one year ago) link

Do they appear in the recent book Hungry Beat oral history thing on Scottish independent music. Presumably must do. I think the Pop Group do but had a very short look at the book.

Stevolende, Saturday, 7 January 2023 18:48 (one year ago) link

Very briefly.

dan selzer, Saturday, 7 January 2023 21:17 (one year ago) link

four months pass...

BA Robertson is so fucking weird.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhM-nO4Yjjw

MaresNest, Thursday, 18 May 2023 22:31 (eleven months ago) link


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