Elvis Costello: Classic or Dud

I find Sumner's voice far more compelling than EC's; like Ned, lyrics to me are not the be-all-end-all qualification for "good vocals." (Even though I'd take Sumner's lyrics over EC's...) But I can see why people like EC; he does have a knack for a hook (but so does Sumner--no pun intended ;-)--but I must say, I have two of his records, and I hardly listen to them, ever.

Dylan I like, though. He sounds quite fragile ("Har-har-har, that's 'cause he can't sing in tune!" NOT FUNNY, CLICHE-WIELDING ASSHOLES!), as opposed to EC, who comes across to me as pretty smug a lot of the time. Of course, Bright Eyes sounds fragile, and I don't know if I could name one vocalist whose teeth I'd rather kick in...

My Aim Is True is a great record that took me a long time to get into. In fact, it's one of my favourites, despite the pub-rock backing group. I always thought they were the perfect band for the 50s Punk Buddy Holly thing he was being marketed as at the time. The lyrics are great, too: "now that your picture's in the paper / being rhythmically admired"? Brilliance. I haven't listened to any of his other stuff except "Pump It Up" and "I Don't Want To Go To Chelsea" and "Veronica" and they're all good too. Hey Ned, how much for the collection?

that said, he's not luther vandross and when he sings out of his range, it's at best endearing, at worst really, really, really bad.

i like e.c. because he's got a lot of pop smarts, see for example his nicks of everyone from abba to stax. i can listen to him rather than, say, dylan because not only does he have fine lyrics but he takes an active interest in the recording process and is an underrated melodist.

Well, Slick Rick was cool...and I think I would like to see a Morrissey rap record.

I think if Morrissey created a rap album I'd have to kill myself. I'd listen to an Oasis rap album because it'd be hella funny.

Oasis definitely should make a rap album -- couldn't be much worse than their last album. I could see Liam rapping a la Lil Kim about his designer clothes. Noel could learn how to mix or be a backup dancer, because he would be boring on the mike.

And going back to Pinefox -- it's obvious to me, but that doesn't mean it has to be obvious or even slightly accurate to anyone else. My own biases are just that, and I don't seem to have implied anything more than that throughout the thread. If anything, you're the one who expressed bewilderment that someone could rank Sumner higher than EC in one's affections -- may I humbly point out that not everyone would see your view as obvious either?

I appreciate passion and opinion. I detest dogma. It's as simple as that.

Lest you find this too contrary to believe, I have no problem per se with this 'thoughtful craftsman' ideal per se. There's plenty of music I love that was created by people who put effort into it from start to finish, who have high standards of personal perfection. All very well, but my problem is when this is wrongfully prioritized, automatically granting whatever is produced by such a figure some critical cachet over something else done quickly and cheaply from a company out to score. That I refuse to accept -- it ranks the motivations of creation as more artistically important than the creation itself.

If somebody comes up with something random one night and has a full song the next day that turns into something rushed to market, while someone else spends ten years' creating something, and both get heard by me and I think the first thing is great and the second is boring crap, then that's just the way of things. The reverse reaction can easily happen, of course -- but it doesn't *always* happen.

It's just that I'm ridiculously intellectually precious about people who have, what seems to me, an outmoded view of the place in which I live, and it only takes one brief comment to provoke me. That's all.

>>> I appreciate passion and opinion. I detest dogma. It's as simple as that.

It sure sounds simple and appealing when you put it that way. Everyone likes to think they detest that awful thing 'dogma', which is always conveniently something that somebody else has. "He is a redneck; you are rigidly ideological; I, on the other hand, hold views with delicious suppleness".

This is all fair enough but seems to me like a very weak critique of EC's records, which have been consistently interesting and experimental (albeit not consistently excellent). I think it's possible to get hung up on his words and miss the fact that he has a knack of writing fantastic tunes from time to time.

Of course, I'm one of those people who likes the sound of his voice, so that makes things easier.

Your point is taken, Tim, that I've not yet heard everything he's done, and I allow for those records that EC himself has problems with, notably _Goodbye Cruel World_. I actually think Andy's point comparing him to Van Morrison is worthy -- what you see as experimenting I see as generally dry genre exercise, such as the Brodsky Quartet album. I'm vaguely impressed with the attempt but not keen on the results. As for 'consistently interesting,' can we take it as read at this point that this is NOT universal opinion?

As for my being an Oasis enthusiast, what of it? EC and Noel Gallagher may both be stodges of Irish descent at heart, but at least I don't feel like I'm at a damn lecture about How To Be An Important and Innovative Musical Figure when I listen to a song like "Slide Away." If EC inevitably projects that aura to me, that's life.

As for Oasis, there are no bigger slaves to craft and classicism in rock at the moment, and that's the comparison I was making. If you're saying *now* that EC's records sound like dry lectures in classicism that's very interesting and I'd like you to give some examples (particularly regarding his stuff pre-1985). However, that's not the argument I thought you were making above, which seemed to rely more on what EC *had to say* about music in interviews. Forgive me if I misinterpreted.

The problem with hardcore/jungle/garage mc-ing is that it hasn't yet (at least to my knowledge) evolved beyond formularised lyrical content that works as a support to a track rather than something that can inspire in its own right.

But the UK pop market would appear to me to be wide open to a charismatic garage mc with inventive lyrics.

I'm uncomfortable with the implication that people should make the noises their backgrounds suggest they should. This is way off topic, though.

he deceptively didn't play many Clash originals

Maybe not, but he did do a pretty blistering White Riot with the Mescaleros.

Christ, I miss Joe Strummer.

He would've been 70...I guess the upshot is that his heart ailment could've claimed him much earlier and we're lucky we got so much from him as it is. JFC, Dick Cheney can have like 17 heart attacks but we had to lose Joe.

XXXP - I saw Bob solo in Glasgow in late '91 and he played Celebrated Summer, Could You Be The One?, Chartered Trips, Hardly Getting Over It, and Too Far Down

Todd Rundgren also very much in that vein, when I saw him in 2018 the only pre-2000 song he played before the encore was “Secret Society”. It still ruled, though unfortunately none of it sounded as good in the studio.

The Strummer book I read was illuminating, coming close to "don't ever meet you heroes" territory. He did at heart seem like a genuinely great guy, just haunted and likely struggling with depression.

xpost I was at that Prince show. I want to say the only notable old song was ... Starfish & Coffee?

With Mould maybe it's that he generally shied away from full band version of HD stuff? Frank Black also avoided Pixies stuff live for a long time.

I mentioned this elsewhere but I deeply regret missing Grant Hart at Cake Shop in 2009. The tiniest venue and he was in great spirits, did a TON of HD songs by request. Instead I caught one of his last shows where he did one and only one HD song. Then he mentioned that some fool went up to him before the show and said "Celebrated Summer" was his favorite song. Then he fielded requests, and after hearing like twenty different HD songs shouted his way, said "I ain't playing that old shit."

had "beyond belief" threading thru my dreams last night

That’s a good one. Don’t know how’d I feel about it as part of a dream soundtrack though.

Pre-sales for Elvis Costello's Gramercy Theatre residency has begun with general sales tomorrow. FWIW, Live Nation apparently is jacking up the price - if you bought tickets through EC website's own pre-sale, it's a LOT cheaper, though they also sold out really fast. His site also had a deal on a 10-night pass that gets you into every show, with seats guaranteed to be in the center of Row A - all of those sold out.

Each night is 20 songs - he's posted 10 songs that will be played each night (all different setlists), but the remaining 10 at each show will be a surprise. He's also going to have guests, which will probably be a surprise as well.

Elvis Costello will be on the Latin Grammys tonight Thursday on Univision channel

Of course.

Oh god, does he pronounce it “Coh-STAY-yoh” now?

Oh I forgot. He did that This Year’s Model in Spanish thing.

He did nowt

I think Elvis sang "Peace, Love, & Understanding" and did some English verses while Jorge Drexler sang both Spanish and English

Wasn't he invited because of this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmD6so5aZ-s

Yes!

I didn’t buy any concert tickets but I wish there was a way to donate the $$ to Alan. Maybe buy merch on their band camp or something.

X-post - Elvis Costello doing peace, love … with Drexler was apparently recorded separately from the Latin Grammys. For some reason, the Latin Grammys folks had Costello guest on Drexler’s song of the year nomination “Tocarte” on the televised show. Drexler did the song on his album with C. Tangana not Costello. Drexler won song of the year for it btw. Drexler sang “Night Rally “ with Costello on Spanish Model version of This Year’s Model.

Apparently an excerpt from the upcoming Uncut:

Songs of Bacharach and Costello

Four-album set that revisits a favourite collaborator

It’s Painted From Memory (1998) and Taken From Life, which is a collection of songs that Burt and I wrote over the last 15 years for a proposed Painted From Memory musical. So you’ll hear other people singing a couple of those original songs, but also a bunch of songs that have never heard before. We’ve compiled them with a couple of songs from Look Now (1998) and some recordings that were piano/voice explorations of what the songs would sound like if they were sung by other people. We’ve put them all together to create an impression of what it would have been like to have that score.

There’s another disc of live performances of Painted From Memory songs, mostly with Steve Nieve and myself, a couple of them orchestral. Finally, a whole album of Bacharach/David songs, which I thought would be fun to include. This is a love letter to Burt. We went into the studio last september and recorded two songs with Vince Mendoza conducting a 30-piece orchestra. So the bookends for this Taken From Life are newly recorded. The Imposters and I recorded a third song, in Capitol Studios with an orchestra. It was a few years since we’d worked together, but it didn’t take very long before I’m in the booth and he was on the call-back saying, “Elvis, you’re not singing the right melody.” So I had to be on top of it.

Ha, I like those final 2 lines

I like a little of the Bacharach material here and there but the album as a whole is Too Much (for me). It's also the point where he definitely starts oversinging EVERYTHING. There is still some tethering to subtelty in the singing on All This Useless Beauty. I find his "She" voice painful to listen to.

I mean there is a high drama to the singing on e.g. Imperial Bedroom and Juliet Letters, but it's much less earsplitting

Imagine him singing this now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCDy7sKKLy0

It took a long time for the Bacharach album to grow on me, but I also kind of wish Dusty Springfield was the vocalist. She was very ill when they were recording it so it would never have happened, but still, that would've been a pretty amazing comeback.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-GL9dCvREc

Hey, that song has its own thread!

But you can just leave that one right here, thanks.