Irish politics discussion thread

You're joking!

SRSLY, you'd rather have Chris Andrews as your TD?

No, I voted Gormley, Quinn and Creighton. Also Andrews is young but based on personal experience (he taught one of my best friends and when I visited said school for an open day he was v friendly and decent joking about his brother [the bloody awful David McS4v4ge, the twit in Temple Bar or Grafton Street with the drum on his back] who was based in Denmark at the times) I would have plenty of time for him. I would actually have voted for him if he had been with any other party (even PD if only to get rid of Michael)!

why do you keep google guarding all these names?

do you reckon McDowell will have to get a job in the Centra in the triangle in Ranelagh? Or maybe he will get some kind of entry level job as a technical writer. I hear Liz O'Donnell is starting in McDonalds soon.

I googleproof out of habit I suppose :)

I hear that Godfather's pizza is looking for deliverymen, I know I'd tip heavily if he came to my door lest he "make shit of my driveway" (sic). Liz O'Donnell hasn't worked before so she won't start now. I'd say Mr O'Donnell will be pulling extra shifts now! [/sexism]

That struck me as being a bit boorish. I am now starting to feel sorry for Maccer.

Are you kidding? He's one of the most arrogant, insulting, obnoxious people in public life and he deserves to be treated poorly. He treats other people poorly. Screw him. It's not like people booed Liz O'Donnell when she lost. Anyway, she's popular enough that she could actually get a proper job doing something else.

I am depressed about the whole election. Irish people are idiots.

Irish people are idiots.

Fixed :)

I think that DV might have been winding us up. I hope so anyway...

No, I don't think he is. He is a sporting gentleman who believes people should be treated in a civilised way, even if they are Mad Dog.

I disagree.

Oh dear! Well it's good to know that there are people out there like that anyway!

Yes, yes it is. I would not want to stoop to McDowell's level.

Stupid question, is there a complete list of the election results anywhere on the Interweb?

I don't know. Sorry. Not very helpful.

Irish Times website was pretty good throughout.

I found it very annoying - I kept getting e-mails from people telling me that person X or Y had lost their seat, with nothing obvious about it on the text based Internet. RTE was pretty rubbish too, unless you were using streaming audio.

RTE's website was truly dreadful wasn't it?

Just a big mess with some gigantic picture taking up space where info should have been. Amazing in this day and age.

I suppose we can be grateful that it didn't have a song in the background or smily faces at the end of every article!

Or the Lizard King.

I... I don't understand...

Santorum.jpg

Oh right, cheers for pointer towards thread. That boy works so hard!

I was pretty pleased with the election results, all told. I must have vastly different priorities to EVERY OTHER IRISH ILXOR. I do agree that the coverage was terrible. I was in the UK on Thursday pm, Friday and Saturday and found it very difficult to track progress.

I think that the result could have been easily foretold from a 50/50 perspective - with the mud-slinging fantango before polling the vote was going to swing violently in the direction of FF and FG, those that lost out (primnarily the PDs) did so on the basis of a leader who spoke unreservedly, which our electorate didn't appreciate.

McDowell was in my constituency and I am delighted with that result. I agree that Mary Harney must have had quite a chuckle behind closed doors.

I thought the coverage (TV & Radio) were fantastic! Papers, not so much sadly enough.

McDowell was brought down by his ego, pure and simple. He couldn't leave things alone, took everything personally (something well pointed out by that other egomaniac Adams during the debate) and couldn't help but preen near a camera. He was determined to lead the PDs and was blinded by his own greed to the fact that he was being handed a poisoned chalice. Truth be told, I think Harney acted in a mercenary manner but anyone could have seen the writing on the wall really!

What are your priorities Lara? My concern was that I wanted to remove the established old boys club for a new one (sigh). Also I wanted the Greens to have more of an effect, I would have been happier with them being bigger because while their policies are fairly limited I do want them at cabinet level for discussion. I hope that there will be one or two changes but I'm not sure that they'll really happen.

given the possible bump coming in the economy, i think consolidation was always going to be the order of the day coming up to this one.

is it possible FF knew it too, and played to it?

It's kind of an interesting one, because, as you say, the flight to the two main parties obviously means that the electorate is jittery about something, and the coming five years could possibly not be great for whoever's in government, so why do FF want it so bad right now, when possibly the smart thing to do would have been to soft pedal a bit and maybe let the others take over and screw up. Maybe FF reckons things aren't going to be so bad.

I am highly amused that the first business day after the election results and the Mahon tribunal is right back with the massive irregularities in Bertie's testimony regarding his money.

Quite right and I wonder what effect this commentary will have on the formation of our new government?

To be honest I think our often a-political electorate voted for the people who ran the best campaigns - on a local and national level. Those who didn't convince in the TV debates lost in waves. McDowell and Adams are most notable here.

I was in the UK and it was virtually impossible to find out what was going on. UK coverage = almost nil. Limited web coverage too.

McDowell did v badly on the debate 'tis true! I don't think it was the debate that threw it away for Adams, I think people got spooked by the idea of SF being in government! Lucinda Creighton totally proves your point though, she managed to get through on v little except fluff, that says she does seem really copped on and ready for what's next.

Mahon tribunal appears to have already messed up with their timing sadly enough. I don't really hold any faith in the tribunal system any more. It's not like I had much to begin with.

Everyone's expecting a bump, it's making houses cheaper but scares the shit out of me re. buying at the moment. All that crap about Stamp Duty didn't help.

SF was surely a long shot but Adams was terrible on economic policy, health service etc. It appeared that they (SF) had a single policy agenda.

Creighton is apparently brilliant, although I hate Enda Kenny too much to have voted FG. She's a non-practicing barrister. She and Varadkar seem to be the new breed of FG.

Is there any possibility of putting a stop to these tribunals? I predict a much more emphatic vote of togetherness if we were given that opportunity. And the savings could cover the cost of Stamp Duty!

Btw - I say buy anyway, if that's what you want. The Stamp Duty issue will be negated by price inflation for the next 1-2 years for definite.

UK coverage = almost nil. Limited web coverage too.

I thought it funny how the UK media were still running with the "Bertie to be thrown out of office by sulky electorate" story long after the polls were showing a bounceback for FF.

That's what I'm banking on Lara but thanks, always nice to get the reassurance.

Watching Questions and Answers last night. Poor Fiona O'Malley :(

Was she a bit sadface?

I think a bit shellshocked! She didn't really have anything except stock replies which really weren't that convinving. I just felt a bit sad thinking that for her it was much more than a party. Their biggest mistake was putting McDowell as leader, that killed the party. They were wondering last night if PDs could bounce back, O'Malley tried to point to FG as an example but it was pointed out that they were coming from 33, not 2. I think PDs be finished.

sorry did i just hear my radio right?

bertie's legal team has attacked the tribunal for interfering in the democratic process by investigating him publicly in the leadup to the formation of the new government.

can we really be letting this guy in again?

Yes. Him and his lovely grandkids: "No wait, don't look at my bank statements! Look at the babbies, aren't dey lovely? Ah bless Rocco JayZ Fifinoodle threw up! How can a corrupt politician have such lovely babbies?"

THE GREEN PARTY HAVE BETRAYED ME! Unbelievable. I wouldn't have voted for them had I know this was going to happen.

Also LOL x LOTS:

Mayo Fianna Fáil ‘in limbo’
Tuesday, 19 June 2007

M1ch43l Duffy and 41n3 Ry4n

THE honorary secretary of the Castlebar-based Johnny Jordan Cumann, Eamon Joyce, has this week stated that the comments made by An Taoiseach Bertie Ahern in relation to Beverley Flynn rejoining Fianna Fáil have left the party ‘in a state of limbo’ at grassroots level in the county.
Mr Joyce said the comments from the Taoiseach on RTÉ radio’s News at One were ‘totally unexpected’ and were in stark contrast to the sentiments expressed by headquarters before the recent General Election.
“We didn’t expect it all and we really fail to see where the Taoiseach is coming from on this one. As far as we can see, there is nothing but uncertainty surrounding Deputy Flynn at present. Her matters with RTÉ remain outstanding and now we have her constitutional challenge pending. God knows how long that is going to take,” said Mr Joyce, who said the hardworking members of the party now once again had to adopt a ‘wait-and-see approach’.
“What we really should be at is getting our house in order ahead of the local elections which are not that far away. In all honesty, it could still be two or three years before all the matters involving Deputy Flynn are resolved.”
Mr Ahern also said at the weekend that the process of Ms Flynn going back into Fianna Fáil would have to be resolved with her ‘local organisation’, but Mr Joyce said that clarification would have to be sought from party headquarters in relation to this process and also the process of re-admitting former members of Fianna Fáil who clearly canvassed for Ms Flynn before the General Election.
“After the Taoiseach’s comments, there are now people who feel they have legitimate claims to rejoin the party proper so we will have to seek clarification on this issue.”
Mr Joyce also refused to admit that allowing Deputy Flynn back into Fianna Fáil was the only way forward for the party in the county, as a Fianna Fáil TD would then be based in both Castlebar and Ballina.
“That all sounds great in a perfect world but unfortunately that’s not the case at present. We will just have to cross every bridge when we come to it and deal with the situations as they present themselves to us,” added Mr Joyce.
Mayo’s only elected Fianna Fáil deputy, Dara Calleary, also refused to herald the Taoiseach’s comments as solving all the problems faced by the party in the county. The newly-elected TD also felt that the comments were ‘a bit premature’.
“Once all the outstanding issues are resolved and there has been widespread consultation with the local organisation, it should be considered. I think the feeling on the ground is mixed and there will be some opposition to her being brought back in. The consultation needs to take in all of this,” said Deputy Calleary, stressing the importance of the local organisation in this process.
He also acknowledged that the dissolution of the Micheál Ó Moráin cumann in 2005 and the local political fall-out from that now seemed pointless.
In June 2005, Fianna Fáil National Secretary, Seán Dorgan, and Minister Noel Dempsey were involved in a number of meetings spearheading party re-organisation in the constituency. At the time the official party-line was that the Micheál Ó Móráin cumann was disbanded due to its continued support for Beverley Flynn, at that stage an Independent TD, having been expelled in 2004 after her failed Supreme Court appeal over the RTE libel case.
In an RTÉ interview last Friday, Bertie Ahern also said that he was very conscious that Ms Flynn was ‘a person of considerable ability’ and ‘we have a job to do in Mayo and in the west, we have to build up our strength as a party in the future’.
The Taoiseach went on to say: “I can’t give a commitment but I am in support of her in the party and I am also very conscious she is a person of considerable ability. I do believe that she had potential into the future to be a person that has capabilities of being an officer holder.”
Sources close to Ms Flynn feel that the Taoiseach’s comments mean he will consider her for a junior ministerial post when the current cabinet is re-shuffled two-and-a-half years into its term.

Constitutional challenge adjourned until July

Meanwhile, lawyers for RTÉ have described Deputy Flynn’s constitutional challenge as being a ‘litigious frolic in her own interest’.
The comments were made on Monday afternoon after lawyers for Ms Flynn outlined the grounds on which she wants to postpone bankruptcy proceedings being taken against her by RTÉ.
Her senior counsel, Gerard Hogan, said Ms Flynn was challenging the constitutionality of part of the 2002 Electoral Act, which disqualifies someone judged to be bankrupt from being a member of the Dáil.
He said she had raised major constitutional issues of public importance, and they were seeking an urgent, early hearing of the constitutional proceedings. The matter has been adjourned for two weeks.
Before the case was adjourned, Mr Hogan told Judge Elizabeth Dunne that Ms Flynn was served with a bankruptcy petition on June 2 after RTÉ failed to recover almost €3m in costs incurred by her in a failed libel action against the station.
He said she had already offered almost €600,000 to RTÉ, but that offer was rejected because RTÉ did not believe she had done all she could to discharge her debt.
The Electoral Act of 2002 provides that if a member of the Dáil is declared bankrupt and fails to discharge that bankruptcy within six months, they will be disqualified from membership of the Dáil.
Mr Hogan said the wishes of the electorate must be respected by the Oireachtas. He said there was inconsistency in the way members were disqualified.
Senior counsel for RTÉ, Cian Ferriter, said costs against Beverley Flynn had been assessed in September 2005 at more than €2m and interest was accruing at a rate of €500 a day.
And he said Ms Flynn had not paid a ‘red cent’ of that money. He said RTÉ had obligations to its licence payers and had to take this action for bankruptcy.
He said RTÉ had grave concerns about Ms Flynn’s efforts to postpone or adjourn the bankruptcy proceedings. He said she was embarking on litigation in her own interest to block the consequence she most feared, with complete disregard for RTÉ and its licence payers.
He said the constitutional proceedings were nakedly self-interested and would actively prejudice RTÉ. He added that RTÉ had had to bear the very costly consequences of her previous frolic and was now being asked to sit back while she embarks on another one.

Does anyone remember GREEN NIGHTMARE, the Sun's nightmare vision of what the UK would be like under a Green government?

Now that nightmare has come true in Ireland.

The worst thing is the silence.

When the Greens came for the motorists,
I remained silent;
I was not a motorist.

When they locked up the social smokers,
I remained silent;
I was not a social smoker.

When they came for the jaded journalists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a jaded journalist.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

(sorry mr. Niemöller)

I suspect that FF have gone into government with the Greens in part to buy themselves some time with the Big Guns in Yerp who want to start fining us over our emissions.

(sorry mr. Niemöller)

This is your future.

Oh noes!

the greens are there for two main reasons-

they were cheap to get in, compared to labour.

they are soo fukn flakey that even people that should know better will be blaming them when things start to go wrong. see PD's for example.

any progress on house kv? where are you buying?

I bet the Greens will bring in a law saying that everyone has to live in TEEPEES.

Don't start, I need to find and be in by first of october. I don't think that'll be happening though! Yay for sympathetic uncles!

It's not so good darraghmac, I can't really get into it which is v bad. Also this whole thing about the stamp duty has fecked me up quite badly re. being willing to pay it in the first place so I was hoping to jump over other people. Looking at Crumlin, Inchicore, Stoneybatter and anywhere I can get. I don't want a flat and those areas have older houses that seem fairly solid. Are you an owner or looking at the moment?

Greens will be destroyed by FF. It's what they deserve imho.

not an owner, have quarter share in family home where i'm currently staying with one of my brothers.

wouldn't buy anywhere near me at the moment, rural houses and smaller towns won't be worth shite in three or four years, as far as i can see.

i see tradesmen are all over the meedja in the last week or two crying about the slow down. boo fukn hoo you bloodsuckin fucks..

OTM!

Nice one re. quarter share. Now if only he could be persuaded to marry... Meath will always stay pretty hot I'd say, Wicklow and environs could be very surprisingly boomy-y.

I've been wary of commuter belts (like navan road etc and beyond to the west) since the start: I can't drive! Also I felt that there was no way in hell there would be a proper infrastructure in place. Years later I am being proven right. Yay me, boo people getting hit for difference.

i think the greater dublin area (wherever you consider that to be yourself) is going to be fine- demand will be strong there for a long time yet.

a decent public transport (esp rail) network would help keep things strong for the forseeable future, but sure hey, anyone could tell you that.

not really nice one re quarter share, it was inherited. and he's not getting married until he learns to wash up after himself.

Oh man, sorry.

Yeah, railways would be good if it weren't for the fact that every one of our fancy new transport systems bottlenecks at some point or another. There really is no smooth-flow plan so far as I can tell.

It's not so bad though, if I could get within cycling distance of city centre would be great!

everywhere is within cycling distance, wimp.

My God, it's like my father has found ILX!

everywhere is within cycling distance, wimp.

I for one salute our new Green Party overlords.

Absolutely not, I’m planning on a nice Saturday, I’d rather not have a brain haemorrhage before I start drinking ty.

My first job out of college was for a small campus company which had recently been bought by a Dermot Desmond company (under a business magnate who'd previously disguised his tech talents by (checks notes) managing the National Women's Football team).

We ended up with some people who'd worked with DD in previous companies, one of whom told a story about a few lads who'd gone up to install the new version of their flagship software on his PC, and then had to take an unscheduled holiday for a few weeks because it had remapped the function keys, which were the main conduits of his executive function.

Which is to give another angle from which to say: fuck Dermot Desmond.

(not slagging the National Women's Football team of course, or saying that it doesn't take talent to manage them, just that he was talking himself up as the next Bill Gates shortly after buying the company)

im a close personal friend of a womens all ireland football winning coach, he is full of mantras and blather wisdom but an ok fella all told

Tiny country

k¸ (darraghmac) wrote this on thread Euro 2012 Qualification (pre-empt to handball cheat phase) on board I Love Football on 09-Sep-2010

packie bonner paid for my first ever pint

They may take our freedom but they'll never take our SALADS....#coronavirus #Coronavirusireland #COVID19ireland pic.twitter.com/TjFts61220

— Caolán Mc Aree (@Caolanmcaree) March 19, 2020

hes as much a mocker of the underclass he doesnt care about as any of the clichés

a prick

looks like an orderly and cautious wind down, with plenty of provisos

seems sensible

haven't gone near any details of what a programme for govt between fg/ff/greens would look like, nor been keeping tabs much tbh

Back in the High Court today - Gemma O’Doherty and John Waters as they ask for a judicial review of the Covid-19 restrictions pic.twitter.com/uIM2kKNY1Z

— Dominic McGrath (@McGrathDominic) May 5, 2020

thread of the continuing Waters/O'Doherty idiot show, some of their thick as fuck cheerleaders defying social distancing outside the courtroom. I used to associate John Waters with some funny movies and a foul-mouthed xmas song comp, this clown has brought the name into disrepute.

A source incorrectly recalled to the Irish Examiner that Finance Minister Paschal Donohoe requested pineapple on a pizza during negotiations. Mr Donohoe has confirmed through a spokesperson he did not request that pizza, and is “a ‘New Yorker Pizza’ kind of guy” with bacon, chicken and barbecue sauce.We apologise to Mr Donohoe for any offence caused.

The Irish love their pizza so much and they are so fucking shit at it

interesting red c poll today

new opinion poll suggests a slump in support for Sinn Féin with the party down four points since the previous survey two months ago.

The Business Post Red C poll puts the party at 25%, down from 29% in the most recent poll at the end of November.

Support for Fine Gael was unchanged at 20% while Fianna Fáil has gained one point to 17%.

Independents are on 15%, up two points, while the Social Democrats are unchanged at 6%.

Support for Labour remains at 4% while the Green Party is also unchanged at 4%.

People Before Profit/Solidarity is unchanged at 3% while Aontú is up one point to 3%.

Others are unchanged at 3%.

makes you think about what FG/FF could do if they even tried to solve housing

Feels like SF are losing votes cos of Gaza a bit?

from the left?

maybe

also immigration from the farther right tho

they are finding it difficult to be enough things to enough men the longer they spend as first opposition, but thats expected generally id say

the breadth of anti-govt opinion that they rode last election couldnt be held together for long and they managed better than i thought they would

but i think theres a big tension between their new young support, their new middle aged support, their traditional report and staying quiet on actual positions is eventually starting to show the joins

its still a surprise too see this drop and i doubt it will be carried to the next poll tbh, back up towards 28% maybe and fg to see the same drop.feels more like it

the measure will be seats on the day

maybe the new racists farmers party will change the game

Yeah, true. They were pretty bad on reproductive rights on the other side of the border

im not sure if "look at what their positions are in NI" carries an awful lot of weight, for two reasons (this is all just "i think")

i. having to govern with these loons, tbf

ii. not sure how many potential sf voters down south *really* think of sf ni and sf roi as an entity like that

i think at present they are weighing up the arithmetic between showing how pragmatic theyd actually be in govt across the range of issue that have gained them poll points vs their own internal priorities as an all island party, because theyve reached the limit of growth as far as saying "we'll definitely do what you want that the current govt isnt" to a very wide range of opinion goes

id still be surprised if ff/fg/greens carry the next election tbh but the fracturing of further left and right offers a somewhat changed set of rules there?

The noise about them earlier this week was them taking some lumps from PDP because SF are planning on going to the states for St Patrick's day (and.. meet the President? did they do a lot of this pre-Biden?) for what will presumably be a big fund-raising trip for them?

i dont see it being a 4% issue but combine it with SF confirming quite strongly of late they are an open borders party like fg/ff on immigrants (this ofc is how its being viewed and described by the right wingers) might be.

dropping from both sides basically

ah and mary lou said theyd bring house prices in dublin down to 300k

now i suspect there wasnt all *that* many ppl *that* invested in the asset calue of their gaff who had been telling red c they would vote for sf until then

but im also sure that its a non-zero number, and more than likely the greater part of any migration here is not in the "i disagree with that" space its in the "youve said something major that you you absolutely wont be backing up with any sort of actual plan or policy here"

do other parties do this? yeah. does it hurt them as much? for as long as SF are actual prospective leaders of a govt who havent been in govt they are going to be vulnerable to this i think.

does this type of grandstanding gain them proportionally more votes from ppl who like the headline message? again i think we are now seeing them hover along the limit lines of exactly that question on the topics that matter.

A friend in the civil service has said there's been all sorts of misinformation on the Family amendment in the agricultural media, preying off the fact that succession and inheritance are obsessions for a lot of farmers.

The FLAC are supporting Yes/No, I know some people voting Yes/Yes on the grounds of fuck Conor McGregor, No/No seem like head cases by and large - is there anyone brave enough to come out for No/Yes?

the majority of ppl i know are not voting

the govt efforts around it have been woeful and the decisions to string a few things together and leave the actual outcomes unclear until interpreted by the courts have been badly taken by and large

Yeah, I heard it was not the best - if I was there I'd probably vote Yes/Something just on the grounds that a No on the Family will be seen by the worst people as a sign that the tide is starting to turn.