Artists whose peak period was middle-age

Random people will probably consider Celine Dion to be more important than Radiohead. I am not sure if asking random people is always the right thing to do though...

Random people may also tend to prefer Elton John's middle age works such as "Sacrifice" and the new version of "Candle In The Wind" over his 70s work.

Yeah, for the purposes of this discussion, let's just consider us and not random people.

Huey Lewis always seemed like a really old guy when I was a kid, kind of surprised that Sports came out when he was in his early thirties.

Debby Harry was 32 when the first Blondie record came out.

She's a pretty good example. My best friend in high school kinda freaked out one day when he realized she was one year younger than his mother.

esp. with "sex symbol" status through at least the break of the 80s ... she'd be 40 starring in Videodrome

Those (i.e. not myself) who consider Peter Gabriel's solo work to be superior to his Genesis work may also go for him.

Gabriel as Genesis's frontman was interesting. Gabriel as an autonomous artist is ALL-TIME great. I guess he was about 30 when the 1980 record came out, which would make him 36 for So (which is probably his greatest commercial success). He seemed like an old guy to me in 1986, and now I'm one year older than he was then.

I would have thought Annie Lennox would count but she only turned 30 after "Be Yourself Tonight" so peak-era all 20s. She seems older.

Gabriel as Genesis's frontman was interesting. Gabriel as an autonomous artist is ALL-TIME great. I guess he was about 30 when the 1980 record came out, which would make him 36 for So (which is probably his greatest commercial success). He seemed like an old guy to me in 1986, and now I'm one year older than he was then.

I'd argue even "Up" is a great record, and when that one was released, Gabriel looked like a 500 year-old gnome.

Has there been a better example of a musician visably having aged so extremely between albums?

(of course, he did leave it 10 years between 'proper' albums, but some casual fans may still have been a bit shocked)

Robert Fripp aged about 20 years in the 10 years between 1984 Crimson and 1994 Crimson.

my theory regarding the melody thing has something to do with artists not wanting to repeat themselves. if you write something really hooky, it's probably going to be at least somewhat reminiscent of another melody, and maybe after a while writing less catchy lines is preferable to falling into your usual melodic traps?

Here's a theory: most artists' melodic sense is actually fairly limited. Melody writing in pop/rock music usually comes down to a bag of tricks that come naturally to the artist, and you hear plenty of artists essentially rip themselves off over and over again as their careers go on. Usually listeners don't object to it too much because the successful ones are able to change the environment enough to mask what is essentially a fairly limited compositional scope.

Does melodic decline come from an artist's attempt to break their own mold, with the result that they grasp beyond their innate melodic reach and come up empty?

― southern lights, Wednesday, 27 April 2005 23:01 (5 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
Southern lights OTM. It's seems almost like an idiot savant effect with many pop musicians, just doing it pretty effortlessly through their own unique set of comfortable patterns of neurological activity. But exhausting the possibilities of one's god-given bag of tricks spells the end. This also predicts the better longevity with trained composers, as they more often understand how each compositional trick in the book actually works, and can extend or reject them in almost endless permutations...

I say this as someone who loves garage-band simplicity, at least "for the initial singles and the debut LP before they lost it". Hell, many bands are at their most distinctive early on, precisely because they can hardly play.

― Nag! Nag! Nag! (Nag! Nag! Nag!), Thursday, 28 April 2005 00:37 (5 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Two great posts closing that other thread started by Mark.

PJ Harvey's newest album has, for me, her strongest set of melodies in over a decade, if not since 1993; notably, she said in interviews that she doesn't play guitar AT ALL except when writing songs (or performing / gigging) in an effort to keep her skill level just slightly above 'rudimentary' and thus maintain her ability to 'feel' melodies coming out of it. Danny from Embrace (yes, yes, I know) said something very similar to me about having a dry-spell for songwriting with acoustic guitar and then having a rush of inspiration when he started learning piano. So I think there's definitely something in this, and that musicians who can keep to a child-like level of skill re; actual playing-technique when it comes to songwriting props can potentially sustain or recapture that early melodic skill.

my theory regarding the melody thing has something to do with artists not wanting to repeat themselves. if you write something really hooky, it's probably going to be at least somewhat reminiscent of another melody, and maybe after a while writing less catchy lines is preferable to falling into your usual melodic traps?

I do reckon this is pretty much OTM.

One odd thing here is Neil Finn. His songs, to me at least, are still great, although he basically keeps on using the same ideas and formulas he has done ever since the early 80s.

Richard Thompson, maybe? You can argue over what's his peak (solo) period but Rumor and Sigh and You? Me? Us? are up there with his best stuff and he came out with those in his forties. and for sure he's never written a better song than "1952 Vincent Black Lightning" (1991).

i think there's a lot to be said for trying a new instrument or a new approach in order to inspire new ideas and to shake off your usual routines, but to actually equate a lack of instrumental ability w/good ideas is some bullshit

oh wow, geir otm'ed me on the topic of melody. my morning is made.

Richard Thompson, maybe? You can argue over what's his peak (solo) period but Rumor and Sigh and You? Me? Us? are up there with his best stuff and he came out with those in his forties. and for sure he's never written a better song than "1952 Vincent Black Lightning" (1991).

It could be argued that he did actually peak already in 1969 with Fairport Convention though.

yes but they were a band and he wasn't even their main songwriter so no

Had it not been for "Dare", Human League would have fit perfectly in here. "Secrets" and "Credo" are both Human League at their very best.

*bookmarks thread*

Credo, really Geir? That album is *barf*

Has there been a better example of a musician visably having aged so extremely between albums?

It is a little strange because most in showbusiness do a lot to "keep up their appearance", so to speak, so when someone like Peter Gabriel decides to just age like a normal human being, it strikes people as a little odd. Especially when it comes to going bald...in this day and age. Guess I have to give him props for that.

Had no idea about Debbie Harry, btw; I can't believe she's 65 (!) now. Something seems very much not right about that...I would have guessed mid-50's (not seeing any recent photos of her). Crazy how good she looked at 40. Some people have all the luck.

but to actually equate a lack of instrumental ability w/good ideas is some bullshit

I literally only mean in terms of vocal melodies. Nothing else.

Man, I was just thinking this morning, while listening to the new High Llamas album, about how sad it is that Sean O'Hagan can't write a decent melody anymore.

Man, I was just thinking this morning, while listening to the new High Llamas album, about how sad it is that Sean O'Hagan can't write a decent melody anymore

fixed

Sonic Youth OTM

also
Teenage Fanclub
Drive-By Truckers
Sir Richard Bishop
Bill Callahan
Wilco
Flaming Lips
Miles Davis
Mellencamp

Notice the thread refers to peak period (subjective) and not 'most popular period,' otherwise this house of cards comes down, I think

Wish there were more metal bands over the age of 35. There's Neurosis I guess. Guess metal's a young man's game though, huh?

aren't there a ton of '80s and '90s metal bands who are still out there? slayer, anthrax, testament, maiden, megadeth etc? even opeth and those bands must be getting up there.

(peak period is a different story, although i remember some of those '00s maiden records sounding at least as good as the '80s stuff)

Thinking about Derek Bailey, mentioned upthread -- I think free jazz and free improv players really benefit from years of playing and are only just coming into their best playing in middle age. Early years: learn your instrument, learn what it does and what it can do; middle years: unlearn it all and play free. I've heard a few decent young free improvisors, but the best ones all seem to me to be at least 40, if not at least 50.

i think there's a lot to be said for trying a new instrument or a new approach in order to inspire new ideas and to shake off your usual routines, but to actually equate a lack of instrumental ability w/good ideas is some bullshit

― adult music person (Jordan), Wednesday, 30 March 2011 14:46 (6 hours ago) Permalink

easy to see where you're coming from, but i equate it more to language - that one, in order to come up with rhyme/(melody)/prose in the first place, they must first learn the language. you can't write great poetry if you're still learning to cross your t's.

that said, i'm questioning myself as to whether one can become a better writer by learning another language (?)

maybe the writing analogy would be a veteran writer writing about a topic (or using a setting etc.) that she's never broached before? or i guess writing in longhand instead of on a computer would be the more direct one.

I think free jazz and free improv players really benefit from years of playing and are only just coming into their best playing in middle age

That would seem to be true for free improv, but in free jazz there were guys like Ornette and Dolphy and Sanders who were all doing amazing stuff relatively young. Ayler didn't even make it to 35!

Yeah, maybe there's something in there that could explain or at least illuminate the differences between free jazz and free improv. I don't know.

There are always exceptions and outliers -- Machine Gun was made by a bunch of twentysomethings (and one guy barely into his 30s).

Wish there were more metal bands over the age of 35. There's Neurosis I guess. Guess metal's a young man's game though, huh?

― If Assholes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport, Wednesday, March 30, 2011 5:11 PM (31 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Mastodon, as one example, is in their late 30's.

Dio didnt hit his stride till 35, i think. If we even know how old he really was.

Matt Pike has to be 40 years old. Peak for me was Blessed Black Wings in '05, so that's pretty close to 35.

Had no idea Mastodon dudes were that old.

Mastodon had the Today Is The Day connection remember. At the Cathouse gig some years back just when Leviathan came out some smart arse was shouting for today is the day songs. (everyone knew who they were too) think those days might be gone.

Pulp was formed in 1978, but didn't creatively or commercially peak for almost two decades later (albeit with a mostly revamped lineup). They have some live shows scheduled for this year, by which time at least one band member will be 50.

As for artists whose commercial peak came long after their creative peak, I'll nominate Steve Winwood, who creatively peaked around 1967-68 - although some would argue it was anywhere from 1966 to 1971. But he was 40 when "Roll With It" (both the album and the single) topped the charts in 1988.

Decrepit old bluesmen.

To wit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRgg_9TmI-w&feature=fvwrel

Sorry - got lost in the thread - posted, then read the thread title.

thought of a good one: Mark Sandman turned 40 the year Morphine released its first album

I don't know how old Nina Nastasia is (40-ish?), but she waited a long time before recording her debut (having performed live in NYC since the early '90s), and last year's Outlaster is as good as anything I've heard by her.

oh, and Mark Lanegan has produced some of his best work while in his 40s. the latest Soulsavers album is one of the high points of his career, I think.

Howlin Wolf was 41 when he started to record for Chess in 1951.

Muddy Waters hit Chess Records peak started around 1950 when he was 37.