I HATE APPLE

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RJG, spotlight is basically search queries saved as folders, live updated, so that, for example, all files with 'fish' somewhere in appear linked in one folder.

Ally, where you and I differ; I have a T-Shirt with the slogan 'USE HELVETICA' on it, although Johnston would be better than Lucida grande which is an unpleasant font I'll grant you.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:53 (nineteen years ago) link

We get too much Helvetica in New York, Ed, it's the Gill Sans of the American metropole. The MOMA, the subway.. fuhgeddabout it. I wouldn't mind Helvetica Neue though, maybe Helvetica Neue Ultralight. There are days when I want my whole powerbook to look like an issue of Cosmo.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:02 (nineteen years ago) link

The world needs more Cooper Black and OCR A Extended.

TOMBOT, Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:10 (nineteen years ago) link

I use Twentieth Century Monotype all over my work PC though and think it looks wonderful.

TOMBOT, Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:12 (nineteen years ago) link

My swiss designer friend HATES Helvetica. She says it actually makes her suffer. I actually like it a lot, especially neue extended.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:12 (nineteen years ago) link

I got over Helvetica. As Tracer points out it's way too all over the fucking place if you're a planes, trains hold the automobiles please type of commuter. It means nothing any more.

I'm kind of in love with this "Hollywood Hills" truetype I downloaded but strictly because it makes all my official documents really amusing and stupid looking.

TOMBOT, Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:16 (nineteen years ago) link

Bah to serifs (Incidentally I just found out that the german term for sans serif fonts is 'grotesk')

Johnston and Gill Sans are superior and more beautiful sans serif fonts but helvetica has it's place.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:17 (nineteen years ago) link

For a daily system font I want Univers Bold or Trade Gothic. Yes I am classy. And I am a bit 1998.

Haha Tom, that's what I loved about the old easy switcheroo font crap on Mac, you could make, like Budmo Juggler your default list-view font, it was hilarious.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:19 (nineteen years ago) link

Ed there is quite a famous font, a bit like Univers, called AKZIDENZ GROTESK

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:21 (nineteen years ago) link

Tom, you must write official reports in MN Dubbeldik

Ed (dali), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:22 (nineteen years ago) link

That's how I discovered the term. Helvetica was designed as a replacement standard trade font apparently.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:22 (nineteen years ago) link

xxpost
Ah but which Trade Gothic? I love Bold Condensed No. 20. and LH Extended.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:24 (nineteen years ago) link

Mm Spencer you're right those are both nice. For actually using them in a system it would have to be Bold Condensed 20, but just plain old bold is nice, too. I like having a little breathing room in there.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:26 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm not such a fan of condensed fonts, they look crabbed and cramped.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:27 (nineteen years ago) link

Avenir is my current favorite sans serif. The heavy weight is virtually identical to what Chanel uses for their logo.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:29 (nineteen years ago) link

good choice, Avant Garde Gothic is good too.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:33 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.ign.fr/images/GP/ANN25.jpg

I would like to know what the name of the font used for place names on french 1:25000 maps is called. See bottom right of the above image.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:08 (nineteen years ago) link

There's nothing in that corner.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:10 (nineteen years ago) link

apologies, bottom left. 'Talloires'

Ed (dali), Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:11 (nineteen years ago) link

Font snobbery beyond a certain point = mentalism

Dr. Eldon Tyrell (ex machina), Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:11 (nineteen years ago) link

One of the few pleasures to be had when developing on macs is being able to use Gill Sans in the IDE. It just looks so much better in OS X than it does in WinNT.

RickyT (RickyT), Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:13 (nineteen years ago) link

Cooper Black

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:14 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't see much point in hating Helvetica. It's kinda like hating water or something. Even if you're Swiss. It ain't fancy, but it ain't going away, either.

You know what I hate though? Optima. Can't say why, exactly. It's the "Joy of Sex" font, and the "Planned Parenthood" font, and I can't look at the shampoo bottle in my shower now without being reminded of either those awful nude sex illustrations from the 70's or birth control.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:20 (nineteen years ago) link

Spotlight looks fantastic, but I'm wondering if it would be a serious resource hog.

Probably not as much as people are fearing. Basically, Spotlight is a front end to Tiger's database file system which allows for files to have metadata tags. It's very similar to the file system used in BeOS. Quoting from that article:

For the everyday user, though, BFS has much more tangible advantages. Any file or file type on a BFS volume can have arrays of metadata associated with it, in the form of "attributes." There is no limit to the amount, size, or type of attributes, and attributes can be displayed and edited, sifted, sorted, and queried for directly in the Tracker (Be's equivalent of the Finder). Because most attributes are indexed, search results are nearly instantaneous, regardless the size of the volume or the number of files being searched through. By default, BeOS ships with reasonable sets of attributes for common file types, but users are allowed to extend and customize these, and to create entirely new file types with entirely new arrays of attributes. In other words, the Be File System doubles as a database.

Users can use built-in filetypes with existing attributes, or create entirely new filetypes with custom collections of attributes. These files were used to deliver a dynamic web site out of the BFS database without using 3rd-party database software.

It is difficult to describe to users of other operating systems just how advantageous an operating system built on top of a virtual database can be. Only other BeOS users really seem to understand the power and flexibility of the database-like file system, and it is the single feature I miss the most from BeOS.

Copy your MP3 files' ID3 tags to Artist, Title, Year, Genre attributes. Sift and sort through your collection in the Tracker in almost anyway imaginable, or build playlists from MP3 attribute queries with far more flexibility than you get in other OSes.

BeMail messages store Subject, From, To, CC:, Date, etc. in attributes. Create virtual mailboxes based on live, instantaneous query results. This lets you obtain views of your email store that are irrespective of the actual folder locations of BeMail messages on disk.

Years ago, I created a custom file type based on text, with attributes for author, title, email, URL, etc. Then I wrote a CGI script in perl to extract and dish up these attributes over the web. In other words, I was serving up a database-backed web site without having to install or learn any database software whatsoever. That site now runs on LAMP, but you can see how the site was created here.

The OS-level metatags in BeOS was really really cool and I can't wait to see how it's implemented in Tiger.

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:26 (nineteen years ago) link

Does anybody else think that the font smoothing in OS X makes serif faces look better while XP's looks better with sans serif? Or am I just balls-out insane?

TOMBOT, Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:29 (nineteen years ago) link

Ed, that looks like Futura Medium Condensed to me.

Curious George Finds the Ether Bottle (Rock Hardy), Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:35 (nineteen years ago) link

Ed, on the French map, it's Futura Medium Condensed.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:41 (nineteen years ago) link

(whoops, what Rock Hardy said)

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:41 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah, me too, although it's not the same font as "les Granges" or "Ermitage St. Germain" which is the one I really like. I think there are like six fonts going on in that map!

xpost

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:44 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't thik you're insane, Tom, but I think ClearType looks better regardless.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:44 (nineteen years ago) link

Taking Font Sides: Johnston or New Johnston?

I'm intrigued by the legal difference between Johnston and Gill Sans. Transport For London still claims ownership of Johnston and, especially, New Johnston - does the Strategic Rail Authority have any rights over Gill Sans?

caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 17 March 2005 21:14 (nineteen years ago) link

I am more of a T-font person: Trebuchet, Tahoma, and Times New Roman.

Allyzay Dallas Multi-Pass (allyzay), Friday, 18 March 2005 02:48 (nineteen years ago) link

Taking Font Sides: Johnston or New Johnston?

I'm intrigued by the legal difference between Johnston and Gill Sans. Transport For London still claims ownership of Johnston and, especially, New Johnston - does the Strategic Rail Authority have any rights over Gill Sans?

Definately Original Johnston. I believe on Johnston the copyright has lapsed, Johnston himself having died more than 70 years ago but I don't know if a font can be trademarked as an entity in itself or whether it is is just the usage (Roundel, signage, map styles etc.) that is trademarked. I believe that New Johnston is under copyright and the move to new johnston was as much about having an important part of the coporate identity under copyright as improving clarity.

I shall persuade Ambrose to ask his Dad who knows about thses things.

As for Gill Sans, it's not been used on the railways for years. I'm not sure what is the type face is nowadays but it's not proper Gill Sans nowadays.

Ed (dali), Friday, 18 March 2005 09:18 (nineteen years ago) link

BR dropped Gill Sans when they brought in the Corporate Identity* scheme in 1964. That was when the double-arrow logo was also invented, and the blue-grey corporate colours. It was around the time that the BRB Design Panel was formed, but I don't think that was actually set up until a couple of years later.

(*somewhere* I have a 1970-something issue of Modern Railways magazine with a "Ten years of the Design Panel" article)

* this may not have been what it was actually called - I'm sure it was Corporate Something, though.

caitlin (caitlin), Friday, 18 March 2005 10:00 (nineteen years ago) link

*13 high pitched squeals of 'fuck'*

mei (mei), Friday, 18 March 2005 12:55 (nineteen years ago) link

UPDATE: Repairs finished already, en route back to store. Will it get here in time??? Stay tuned for the next installment of Ally's blog.

Allyzay Dallas Multi-Pass (allyzay), Friday, 18 March 2005 13:09 (nineteen years ago) link

(I am the only person on ILE who likes Arial.)

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 18 March 2005 16:21 (nineteen years ago) link

yes

Ed (dali), Friday, 18 March 2005 16:29 (nineteen years ago) link

But does anyone have an opinion on Bitstream Vera Sans?

caitlin (caitlin), Friday, 18 March 2005 16:31 (nineteen years ago) link

hang on a minute and I will

Ed (dali), Friday, 18 March 2005 16:34 (nineteen years ago) link

good B, S not so good

Ed (dali), Friday, 18 March 2005 16:36 (nineteen years ago) link

Bottom line: is *anyone* totally satisfied with their computer/OS ?

I'm pretty happy w/the ST1040/TOS box I use for midi sequencing, heh.

standard font on my SUSE box = Black Chancery.

I was thinking about getting one of those mac minis, loading it up w/a 8x8 midi interface, a MOTU firewire 8x8 audio interface and using it as a replacement for my atari/hdr setup. Maybe I'm not so sure now. Ally + tombot on this thread are great!!

Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 18 March 2005 18:09 (nineteen years ago) link

(I am the only person on ILE who likes Arial.)

Arial is good for small font sizes on non-anti-aliased screens. If you don't have ClearType turned on and you're reading a small sidebar, Arial is what you want. Otherwise it's pretty ugly.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Friday, 18 March 2005 18:12 (nineteen years ago) link

I would wait nine months to a year on the Minis to see if the hardware holds up! we have raised GREAT WORRIES.

TOMBOT, Friday, 18 March 2005 18:15 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah, that's what I was figuring. Let other people make all the mistakes. If my Atari craps out in the meantime, I can get another one, or get one of my 5 broken ones fixed, even. One of them just needs a new power supply iirc.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 18 March 2005 18:20 (nineteen years ago) link

A very "interesting" interview with a Mac developer, containing this excellent observation:

If you could push a feature request, or perhaps a bug on your
wish-list to the top of Apples' radar for OSX, what would it
be?

Kill Finder X. It's really that bad. But don't just
resuscitate Finder 9 -- do better. Finder 9 always needed a
toolbar, for example. Finder 9 needed a plugin architecture.
Finder X does trounce Finder 9 in terms of built-in search,
though.

There are people out there who know what the next Finder looks
like. Apple needs to get out of their way and let them deliver
it.

You seem like a guy who prefers to refactor rather than
rewrite, so I'm going to assume you wouldn't say that lightly,
and we'll just proceed on the assumption that Finder X is a
complete clusterfuck. How does a company known for its
innovation, craftsmanship and software skills let something
like Finder X out the door?

Finder X is the compromise between the Mac OS folks and the
NeXT folks. Neither won, everybody lost.

Oh my god, the entire bastardized notion of switching from
metal to aqua and hiding the sidebar when clicking on the
toolbar chiclet in the upper right-hand corner.

Bonus: notice how if you click on the extreme right of the
chiclet and try to switch back, you fail -- the window theme
switch moved the chiclet slightly to the left and now you've
got to follow it. Gag. Folks, this type of stuff makes Gnome
look good.

I don't know how Finder X shipped. Someone high enough must
be in love with it that the normal human interface vetting+
feedback process didn't/couldn't take place.

TOMBOT, Monday, 28 March 2005 19:47 (nineteen years ago) link

This website has had a lot of little add ins that have helped psuedo solve some of the disgust I had for OSX. Using a couple of these + TinkerTool & TinkerTool System have been a pretty good compromise for me, though not exactly ideal or perfect, but pretty good.

Allyzay Subservient 50s-Type (allyzay), Monday, 28 March 2005 19:53 (nineteen years ago) link

I tried using Path Finder for awhile, and I actually like it alright, although I was never able to strip it down enough, and you're still stuck w/the dock, and the menu-oid things that I think the above-mentioned developer refers to as chiclets. Maybe Pathfinder + DragThing + Tinkertool = nirvana?

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 28 March 2005 22:31 (nineteen years ago) link


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