★ The Weeknd ★ What You Need ★

i dig that marsha ambrosius jam. does the rest of the record sound like that, or is this just her prince homage?

pretty much all sounds like that - don't think it's a classic album or anything, some of the songs don't quite work, but the sound is consistent and at its best it's rather incredible

also it's pretty easy to see why ppl would fuck w/ this & not marshia ambrosious or kandi!! like, it's really patently obvious!

i don't really see why people who enjoy something that sells itself as r&b-derived should be uninterested in actual r&b at all

im not sure lex's examples are the best ones to make a pt with -- hes comparing, like, stuff that came out recently & is R&B at some level, which is like, if you're looking for the vibe u get from weeknd you wont find it in a kandi lp.

lex i think that argument hurts your case here

like, i think 'actual R&B' is better than jamie lidell too, but then theres lots of 'actual R&B' that is as bad or worse. just relying on that authenticity argument is kind of empty & pointless. if weeknd was more 'real' it wouldnt necessarily make him 'better'.

if you're looking for the vibe u get from weeknd you wont find it in a kandi lp.

― D-40, Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:03 PM (8 seconds ago) Bookmark

this is what i'm saying -- the vibe & sound of the weeknd is not something you'd pick up in the jazmine sullivan album

that said i think there is lots of R&B that gets this vibe. & doesnt have weird stiff lyrics & anemic songwriting

i feel like theres a copout where if its weird or vaguely indie it gets a pass in the songwriting dept., or the performing dept. i dont really buy the 'it cant be compared to R&B because its not JUST R&B' when it suffers by some R&B standards imo but no one can articulate what its doing that R&B doesnt

anyway ill listen to the rest of this on the way home from work before weighing in more

that said i think there is lots of R&B that gets this vibe. & doesnt have weird stiff lyrics & anemic songwriting

this is also true -- if lex's argument was why would you fuck w/ the weeknd but not the-dream or diddy-dirty money then he might be onto something

i feel like theres a copout where if its weird or vaguely indie it gets a pass in the songwriting dept., or the performing dept.

lots of stuff that is sonically weird or interesting gets a pass in the songwriting/performing depts, genre aside

i agree n/a i just dont think this is weird enough

yeah the albums i cited don't aim for the same vibe at all but to be uninterested in them while stanning for the weeknd is still telling imo.

no one can articulate what its doing that R&B doesnt

yeah this is my issue too.

anyway i have to go, i have a date

no one can articulate what its doing that R&B doesnt

― D-40, Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:08 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

well i mean there IS some pretty clear aesthetic stuff -- i.e. "what you need" is heavy on the james blake EP style

altho i think the deadpan vocals really hurt that song

also lol @ ppl poo-pooing the weeknd for SWEARING TOO MUCH

yeah i don't get that at all

iirc its not a moral argument its about how it disrupts the tone & overall aesthetic

jaxon did u like trey songz 'unfortunate'
― D-40, Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:51 PM (42 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

just got back from lunch and am listening to this. yes. it's pretty great. i listen to the radio pretty frequently in the car, so it's not like i don't like 'real r'n'b'. i think all i've heard of his is Bottoms Up. pretty generic radio pop, but this is more the vibe i'm looking for.

i also really like this song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4GJVOMjCC4

lex, personally i love some mainstream r&b, but i'm pretty happy going back to my '90s classics and don't tend to seek out new (under-the-rader) stuff in the same vein (although i'm always happy to check some out, and i appreciate when you post it).

but, it's very much in character for me to go for some shit that prioritizes mood & sonics ahead of vocals, which is what i'm hearing on this weekend tune.

xp

iirc its not a moral argument its about how it disrupts the tone & overall aesthetic

― D-40, Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:19 AM (46 minutes ago) Bookmark

adds to the tone and aesthetic imo

"Bottoms Up" is definitely the outlier on the latest Trey Songz album, which is definitely worth seeking out, Jaxon. The rest of it is just a riches of fantastic, tense slow jams. The Miguel album isn't nearly as even, but it does have a lot of great tracks on it, too.

i hadn't checked out any trey songz either, "unfortunate" is really nice

adds to the tone and aesthetic imo

― gr8080, Tuesday, March 22, 2011 9:06 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

to what end? feels like a way of saying 'yo this is real R&B!' like your dad using slang

hahahaha idk man he just sounds like a chill guy who uses swear words a lot; i'm not coming at this from a "BUT THIS IS NOT REAL R&B" angle at all

ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

i thought u were into this, lamp

haha no i want to defend these dudes but i know theres no point, its just irksome. @ some point to i think ppl like lex and deej just need to stop tryna listen to things they dont have the ears/vocabulary/mindset for instead of punishing us w/ their opinions abt

otm i dont listen to this and compare it to """REAL R&B""" at all

i think this should lead to a thorough discussion of what "REAL" R&B is anyways

i'm not going to read it, but you guys should just go ahead with it anyways

haha yeah i was gonna say "no, thanks."

i'm just kidding, i would be interested in an explanation of why this isn't "real R&B"

its obvious that it isn't "real r+b"

what baffles me is why that matters/ discredits it!!!

lex offtm but that marsha ambrosius youtube is stunning

its obvious that it isn't "real r+b"

oh ok i haven't listened to it but if it's obvious then nevermind

well the whole 'real r&b' thing is deeply stupid so w/e but i think deej's complaint abt the 'anemic songwriting' misses the point of what theyre trying to do, considering how much interest there seems to be in cultivating mood & atmosphere & in texture & pallete.

like i can see disliking this or finding the songs static & undynamic they do sorta sit there looking cool but its not like these kinda mood pieces somehow exist drastically outside the context of REAL R&B, this seems like a p meaningless binary.

i cant think of a good way of saying this but i think the 'real r&b' thing is about movement vs texture like a song off 'kandi koated' is going to draw the listener in & create an emotional connection through the lyrics & the dynamism of the song its still sort of a 'narrative' whereas weeknd are about creating and sustaining a ~mood~ that compells the listener its not going to be as varied or as structured its just sort a ~moment~

when i first started pushing Sa-Ra Creative Partners and some of that other detroit post dilla r'n'b, i got a lot of the same complaints. production over vocals. not good enough "songwriting" (whatever that meant), etc. i called jess an r'n'b-ist. it's funny that this kind of stuff can be looked over when listening to dance music, but not when it's 'r'n'b'

real r&b like cee-lo green's smash hit "fuck you"

XD

lol gr8080

a mojor problem i have w. these kinds of arguments is how they quickly kindof reveal themselves as being esst. abt authenticity on more levels than like being specific about genre. I mean yeah this thing is being received as indie AND rnb to varying degrees by diff listeners. and the way it gets represented in terms of such a binary will inevitably get tangled up in issues like genre-gatekeeperism and the prestige of certain types of fandom/scenesterism. So like for a certain person its of vital importance that like something like this remains w/n the context of rnb where it can be dismissed as technically inept or praised as sonically distinct or w/e.

like i mean lamp is right to say that these kindof dismissals are p dumb and miss the point and it reminds me of the way in which how to dress well was totally misunderstood by this board as like bad rnb for ppl who like indie when it was really about kindof discursively doing things that *connect* ambient noise w/ top40 rnb.

really these bands just seem in some way the wank fantasy of like early 00s rock crit and the cxn/discxn b/w "high" and "low" and pop and avant garde etc etc. I mean on one level im kindof suspicious of those arguments because they do seem *in some ways* bound up w/ perceptions of like great white indie patronising the great unwashed but at the same time maybe that's playing into the hands of certain poptimist arguments and their fetishistic authenticity contrarianism so idk.

This seems really moody and kindof *about* hearing some slow jam and private dancers & c & c and i can get w/ that and they never turn the lights on here

considering how much interest there seems to be in cultivating mood & atmosphere & in texture & pallete.

i don't really get the big deal here either cuz i don't think the weeknd do any of those things particularly well either (and the vocals being so far to the forefront detracts from them) - i mean moody chillwavey texturey acts are ten a penny atm and i like many of them, and the weeknd just seem basic and not very interesting compared to white ring/games/hyetal or whoever.

i have no qualms about being an r&bist and sticking up for real r&b considering how everyone else would rather pretend it doesn't exist

yes lex, by enjoying the weeknd i have to pretend that the-dream does not exist. fascinating point.

yeah try stuff that isn't the pfork token r&b act

you're the one framing things as pitchfork acts or not a pitchfork acts!

a friend told me to check them out and i did. i dont give a fuck who's blog they're on or what artists they don't sound like who i should really be listening to instead. i just wanna get lifted and listen to this and make out w/ somebody.

also the-dream is pitchfork's token r&b act last time i checked!!!!

lex is veering into former-deej territory w/ this R&B inferiority complex

that's what i was saying

and i can't help it if yr taste fits an existing aesthetic

xp