Your opinion, please: 366-band, 411 track 1981 box set

Haha! If it helps any Mark, I feel the same way you do. Especially since some of the added songs were d/l from me personally only a week before and previously unknown to our compiler. While I don't think including them was a crime in and of itself (I do not think of them as my property), I do think it's a bit dodgy to then claim he "had to leave them out" of the original set for other reasons, and it also leaves me in a position of having to catch up with the other songs added just like everyone else. I.M. is not going to be d/l anything from me anymore if I have anything to say about it, and I don't want any new and improved Briefcases, either.

Friend, by my count, not more than 4 tracks of the 71 I added to the briefcase were downloaded from you, so I'm not exactly sure what you're problem is. It seems you have issues, and your slanted communication has bugged me since day one. Frankly, I'll go a step further than not downloading anything from you--I'd rather not have to talk with you ever again. You speak as though you're giving commands, you ask for my albums list, the only reason I can imagine being you'd like for me to send you albums; you complain about how other people who aren't experts were getting their sets before you, so I bumped you up in the queue; and you tel me I'm ego tripping for sharing with you the nice remarks from Mr. Reynolds I'd just then discovered. You can take your crumby sub-Crispy Ambulance bore-core records and keep them.

*bows*

(Am listening to the final disc right now. Can I just say again how genius this is, and that I can't wait to listen to the Briefcase -- the older version, which though I wouldn't mind the newer one is MORE than perfectly fine.)

One final thing---I think being 10 years old in 1981 doesn't quit qualify you as having "been there". You spoke to me in the most condescending tones, in your aged wisdom and insight; while every guy who really has insight, like Ned or Simon and everyone else, has been supportive and helpful.

You absolutely *do* think of all of this as your property; what confuses me is how, knowing as much of it as you know, you manage to have such piss poor taste.

Cutty---

I'm afraid I don't remember what email address you used to put in your request. Would you mind emailing me again, and I'll see where you are?

grow up please.
moving on.

Thanks, back. I'm looking forward to hearing about which undiscovered (to them) bands people liked best, or what albums they went out and bought as a result of the set : )

1981 nut ---

I'll do my best. There've really been a few incrimental changes over the months, and then this big change recently, so I don't really know who has exactly what. Just trying to remember what's new or has changed since the first versions, here goes:

1. Agent Orange - Miserlou (1981) (2:06)
2. Black Flag - What I See (1981) (1:55)
3. Blue Orchids - Dumb Magician (1981) (2:54)
4. Blue Nile - The Second Act (1981) (4:20)
5. British Electronic Foundation - Optimum Chant (1981) (4:11)
6. Cabaret Voltaire - Landslide (1981) (2:07)
7. Crash Course in Science - Flying Turns (1981) (2:58)
8. Creatures - Thumb (1981) (3:58)
9. Dancing Cigarettes - Puppies in a Sack (1981) (4:22)
10. dB's, The - I'm In Love (1981) (3:28)
11. Diagram Brothers - Bricks (1981) (2:42)
12. Dif Juz - Cs (1981) (4:49)
13. Durutti Column - Jaqueline (1981) (2:19)
14. Eno, Brian and David Byrne - Mea Culpa (Edit) (1981) (1:46)
15. Eurythmics - Sing-Sing (1981) (4:05)
16. Fall, The - Lie Dream of a Casino Soul (1981) (3:11)
17. Fire Engines - Discord (Single) (1981) (2:40)
18. Gang of Four - Outside the Trains Don't Run On Time (1981) (3:17)
19. Go-Go's - Automatic (1981) (3:08)
20. Lounge Lizards - Ballad (1981) (3:25)
21. Minutemen, The - Boiling (1981) (0:57)
22. Newman, Colin - Inventory (1981) (2:11)
23. Penguin Cafe Orchestra - Yodel 1 (1981) (4:09)
24. Sound, The - Judgement (1981) (5:03)
25. Stranglers - Everybody Loves You When you're Dead (1981) (2:41)
26. Wire - Our Swimmer (Edit) (1981) (2:29)
27. X - The Once Over Twice (1981) (2:30)
28. Yellow Magic Orchestra - Seoul Music (1981) (4:45)
29. Young Marble Giants - Posed by Models (1981) (1:24)
30. You've Got Foetus on Your Breath - I Am Surrounded by Incompetence (1981) (4:52)
31. Angelic Upstarts - I Understand (1981) (2:53)
32. APB - Talk To Me (1981) (3:00)
33. Article 58 - Lost & Found (1981) (3:26)
34. Babylon Dance Band - When I'm Home (1981) (2:34)
35. Beakers, The - Four Steps Toward a Cultural Revolution (1981) (1:29)
36. Bene Gesserit - Do You Know (1981) (3:48)
37. Berlinski Zid - Mozgani na Asfaltu (1981) (2:44)
38. Birnbaum, Dara - Kojak-Wang (1981) (0:55)
39. Black Uhuru - Youth Of Eglington (1981) (5:02)
40. Blackouts - Young Man (1981) (2:57)
41. Blasters - This Is It (1981) (2:15)
42. Calm, The - Lol Coxhill (1981) (2:09)
43. Cherry Boys - Too Much Confusion (1981) (2:44)
44. China Shop - Kowtow (1981) (3:53)
45. Chords, The - One More Minute (1981) (3:35)
46. Clash, The - The Magnificent Dance (1981) (3:25)
47. Electric Guitars - Continental Shelf (1981) (2:55)
48. Fleshtones - The Dreg (1981) (3:10)
49. Freddy And The Fruitloops - Right & Wrong (1981) (3:09)
50. Gizmos - Biscuits & Gravy (1981) (2:05)
51. Gordon, Kim & Miranda - Working Youth (1981) (0:49)
52. Harrison, Kevin - People in Space (1981) (1:55)
53. In Camera - Die Laughing (1981) (4:38)
54. Ippu-Do - Mission Impossible Theme (1981) (2:22)
55. Leer, Thomas - Kings Of Sham (1981) (3:55)
56. Macs, The - I'm 37 (1981) (2:39)
57. Method Actors, The - You (1981) (3:59)
58. Moore, Thurston - The Fucking Youth Of Today (1981) (0:49)
59. Mr Science - Mr. Science (1981) (2:23)
60. Naked Lunch - La Femme (1981) (5:23)
61. Nasmak - Vaseline des Artistes (1981) (3:14)
62. Neonbabies - Profi (1981) (3:50)
63. Neonbabies - Spass Muss Sein (1981) (1:57)
64. Philosophic Collage - Toxic Poppies (1981) (1:34)
65. Plus Instruments - Things (1981) (2:20)
66. Positive Noise - End In Tears (1981) (3:47)
67. Rally Go - Mass Brew Action (1981) (2:34)
68. Ranaldo, Lee - Shift (1981) (0:45)
69. Revillos - She's Fallen In Love with a Monster Man (1981) (3:19)
70. Russell, Arthur - Sketch for Face of Helen (Edit) (1981) (3:31)
71. Schizoid - White House (1981) (3:13)
72. Scientists - She Said She Loves Me (1981) (2:09)
73. Shivvers - Remember Tonight (1981) (3:21)
74. Ski Patrol - Cut (1981) (3:55)
75. Spanish Dogs - Cleveland (1981) (2:39)
76. Starter - Part of You (1981) (3:09)
77. Stolen Power - Little White Lies (1981) (2:45)
78. Student Nurse - Discover Your Feet (1981) (2:34)
79. Surplus Stock - Let's Kill Each Other (1981) (3:19)
80. Tanks - March of the Slugs (1981) (4:39)
81. Volk, Hugh - Talk of the Town (1981) (2:04)
82. Watt, Ben - Departure (1981) (1:35)
83. Work, The - Duty (1981) (1:04)
84. Xmal Deutschland - Schwarz Welt (1981) (2:39)

THIS is exactly where I view the problem to be: you don't know who has what. Certainly the set is a great thing as it is, don't get me wrong. I don't regret having it at all. But to continually change the contents of the briefcase shows a blatant disregard for anyone who happens to care about these things. Granted not all people will, and that's fine. But you knew when you announced the 'big change' that it would likely make some people unhappy, because you said you had "a sort of cool, sort of unfortunate announcment to make". So it shouldn't come as a surprise to you.

As for having "piss poor taste" - for goodness sake, taste is a subjective thing and no two people have the same taste. It isn't something you cultivate to impress other people (at least I've never viewed it as such), it just is. I can hardly think of a more benign "insult" than saying someone has "piss poor taste". I don't like some of the bands you are into either - big deal!

As for whether you consider 10 years old to be old enough to have "been there" I couldn't give a rat's ass about that either. Whatever this elusive thing is called "being there" is something only you can define and give meaning to because it honestly doesn't mean anything to me - I don't see it as the status symbol you so obviously do. There are people even 10 years older than I am who have no interest in any of this music and likely never will! People who write books about music like to try to connect the musical trends of a certain time to the social/political atmosphere of the era in question. In my personal opinion, that connection overgeneralizes things and doesn't really go very far. It's just revisionism, and detracts from the artistic acheivements of the musicians themselves. Furthermore, individual accounts of that time are just that - individual accounts. They err on the side of specificity where the aforementioned music writers are too general in their assessments. Anyone looking for an logical explanation as to why so much amazing music came out circa '78-'82 is wasting their time. But that's only my opinion. And just for the record, Ned is the same age as I am.

Again, my point here is just that to continually change the contents of the briefcase isn't the most fair or considerate way to go about things, and I think it actually detracts (sadly) from how great the set is AS IT IS. It means you have more respect for people who wouldn't care about these things than for those who would. I find this puzzling since obviously you are a collector of the era yourself and were in a similar situation, you would be one of those people who cared! I can only explain this behaviour by supposing it all stems from your obvious inferiority complex. From what I can tell you are every bit as knowledgeable as the average ILMer if not more so. There is no need for you to be so self-deprecating - as I noticed two people tried to point out to you upthread as regards the opening two paragraphs of your liner notes.

I know of even one ILMer who is 5 years younger than yourself and quite knowledgeable in his own right, yet he feels no need for such self-deprecation.

So again, I just think to continually change the set is a bad idea and shows disrespect for people. You may feel different, but don't be surprised when people are unhappy.

Furthermore: you claimed you were sharing the new Briefcase folder on slsk. I tried browsing your files tonight as an experiment because I had not been able to browse them before and this is the first time I've tried since installing the new version of the program. I don't plan on d/l from you, but for the sake of anyone else who might want to - I don't see that you are sharing that folder like you said you would. Hence, it seems that you are showing further disrespect for people who might care about these things.

Beyond that, as far as I can tell you're the only person who has any problem with me making changes to the set--especially given that I've offered to "update" anyone who wants to.

As for the folder being shared on soulseek, it was; my shared folders were reset; and I forgot to add it. It's now shared, but since you're in a huff and won't be downloading any of it out of some weird protest of something or other, I guess you don't care.

I welcome criticisms of my selections; debates about the ethicality of such an undertaking as this set; the worth/unimportance of understanding the cultural milieu; or any number of ephemeral subjects related to this music. But whatever has upset you is so unclear that I doubt, after all your words expended on the subject, none of us understands what is the matter. Frankly, I doubt it's of any interest.

Moving on, please.

Thanks in advance.

-Bill

Look, can I be left out of this, please? FWIW, Bimble, I think you've acted very poorly here, as I'm sure I've indicated.

Can you put me back on the waiting list, I.M? I'd like to replace this, and it's certainly worth $26.

I'm glad you appreciate it on a stand-alone-mix level. That much music put across any other way would probably be overwhelming, and not very accessible as anything other than an historical documen---and this music is so very alive to me, I'd have hated to present it that way. Hope the next five mixes (and 12 hours of "bonus" material) hold up : )

Stephen ---

That fucking sucks, I'm sorry to hear. I'll put you on the waiting list again. Let me know if there's anything else I can do to help--did you lost any music permanently? Or just iPod/laptop copies?

As for what I can make out of Bimble's complaint, I guess I just don't subscribe to his notion that the people who contacte me first about the set are per se those who will enjoy it "most". Therefore, I don't see any reason that people later along should miss out just because I realised late into the process that I could fit another three hours of music on the appendix disc; and I don't see any reason people who already got their sets (like Bimble) should feel excluded, as I've offered to send replacement discs for the cost of shipping. Where the set now stands is basically the definitive version--I can't fit anything more. My aim is just to get the music heard.

I'd wondered about that, having never done any iTunes type stuff. If the file gets deleted/lost/stolen, do you have no recourse? Can you not download it again, having paid for the license?

I'm definitely still staunchly materialist about music, for better or worse.

I originally thought he was complaining about your statement that the 71 "extra" tracks were cut due to space limitations, when in fact he's claiming that you didn't even know about (at least some of) those 71 tracks until after you finished the set.

No matter which story is correct, obviously you're going to be a magnet for all things 1981. People will send you lots of stuff from 1981, wondering if you've heard it or not, and it's natural that you would want to update the set with some of this extra material. After all, you said from the start that your choices were subjective and you had no intention of covering all the bases.

So basically, revisions/additions to the set are not only unsurprising, but expected.

thanks I.M.

there's quite a lot to digest here!

Man, it's big.

You won't believe me if I say I never set out for quantity, only for quality. I think that holds true for at least 85% of the stuff, and the rest isn't bad, per se. Hope you dig it.

If so, then more the fool me.

Sorry, just had to get that off my chest.

Glad to hear it! Hope it stays so!

O. Nate ---

That very well could be, though I didn't consciously think of it in those terms. It's obviously one of the less genre-oriented, more general feel-oriented mixes. For me, it was just about "the beat," in a different way somehow than the 'Feet' mix. But I suppose you could say that a large percentage of "post-punk" was influenced by reggae/dub (and to my ears, African musics, and funk obviously, and Can, and Kraftwerk, and VU, and . . . . . .).

In any case, as I'm rather obsessed with rhythm, the 'Fire' disc is definitely one of my personal faves.

-- Ned Raggett (ne...), April 17th, 2005.

The only reason I mentioned Ned at all was because of this quote from I.M. from upthread:

You spoke to me in the most condescending tones, in your aged wisdom and insight; while every guy who really has insight, like Ned or Simon and everyone else, has been supportive and helpful.

My point was: I do not think I spoke to you in a condescending tone, and I would like to understand what this "insight" is that Ned "or Simon and everyone else" can offer about the year of 1981. I mean, if Ned and I are the same age, I find it hard to believe he could offer some special "insight" that I couldn't. However, if I am wrong, and he has been blessed with some special divine powers beyond his years I would honestly like to understand what this "insight" is.

As for what I can make out of Bimble's complaint, I guess I just don't subscribe to his notion that the people who contacte me first about the set are per se those who will enjoy it "most".

Exactly when did I ever say this?

Please stop chipping away at what is inherently a selfless act of I.M. sharing his personal project, and shut the fuck up.

Honestly, let your petty greivances sit for a minute. I don't have the newest briefcase version. I can get it if I want. So can you.

If you feel so slighted by the new version of the briefcase disc, I will be glad to send you money via paypal to reimburse your investment if you promise not to continue whining and derailing this thread. It's worth the money to stop what I consider to be a collosal waste of my time. You can contact me at the below address...I would gladly spend the $13 and get back to the matter at hand.

What are "these things" that you care about for which I'm showing blatant disregard? That's where I'm getting the impression that you think there are those who "deserve" this set more or who will enjoy it more, as I took to be the basis of your very first complaint when you thought you were deep in the queue due to email malfunction. As I've stated before, my "ideal" audience for the set was the kid who knows little but has the potential for passion--not collector scum like you and me. But I decided the only equitable and manageable approach to distributing this mix was first-come-first-serve, a rule I've broken only rarely, once being for you.

I have a feeling Reynolds has avoided being "overly general" in 570 pages worth of investigation. Whereas I probably would be wasting my time if I actually attempted to explicate the cultural relevance of any of this music---I haven't done the research, and I'm not a writer.

I can understand that you don't think it's fair that those who ask for the set at a later date get *more* music---but that's why I offered to send everyone who wants it the recently added stuff. If you really have a problem with the inclusion of the Ski Patrol track I got from you, I'll remove it. That should redress the practical complaints I've been able to discern. You've called me both an egotist and overly self-depricating; I'm pretty certain I'm neither. I know what I know--and I know enough to see how much I don't know. Beyond that, let's just agree to disagree, ok? As far as I'm aware, you're the only person who is "unhappy". At least, let's work this out via a private exchange, if we must.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/omm/story/0,13887,1464368,00.html

That's about exactly what I had in mind but knew I couldn't pull off.