Joy Division vs. New Order

Yeh, I'm pretty sure Ian Curtis's friends and loved ones would agree that his disaffection was contrived and needless. I think that much was obvious by the way he just snapped out of it, pulled himself together and stopped feeling sorry for himself.

If, on the other hand, that's an accusation you're levelling at fans rather than the band ... aye, fair play some of the time, I guess. Even so, I think you're missing something deeper ... but I would say that, wouldn't I?

other two!

lol this is comically impossible. I am a typical ILXor in revering these two bands as the apotheosis of punk/post-punk respectively. J.D. had 0% filler in their lean, brilliant, tragically abbreviated career. N.O. had plenty of dud moments and some latter-day meh albums, but their many career highs rank as some of my very favorite music. I do not think I can vote. I probably will eventually, but it will be arbitrary.

Yeh, I'm pretty sure Ian Curtis's friends and loved ones would agree that his disaffection was contrived and needless. I think that much was obvious by the way he just snapped out of it, pulled himself together and stopped feeling sorry for himself.

I'm not talking about the people behind the music, just about music itself. I'm sure Curtis had plenty of reasons to feel the way he did, but that doesn't make the music any more appealing to me.

New Order, easy

Tuomas: OK, but I still think "cult of personality" is an odd accusation to level at, er, music ;)

(ie as opposed to at a person, or people).

I know it's been talked to death , but I did just want to prove it by science with a poll.

I'm going for NO but hate having to choose. JD had such a huge impact on the 16 year old Trifle but the fact that they came out of that and made another band who were incredible for such a long time gives them the edge. Also, over the years, I've had to argue that NO are the GREATEST BAND EVER so many times, I think I actually believe it now, even though the 2 JD albums + Atmosphere + LWTUA are just about as perfect a discography as you could have. Oh, damn it I'm starting talk myself out of my vote.

I've just realised that you are right, New Order *are* the greatest. band. ever. This is kind of earth-shattering and paradigm-shifting for me.

...now I'm gonna go watch Barney in short shorts some more!

lol. Short shorts and white high tops.

New Order

I have tried with Joy Div, but apart from the singles and a few ISOLATIoNNN!! ISolAtionnnn! ahem.. isolated tracks, I can't muster up the love.

NO, though.. easy.

Joy Division didn't last long enough to be usefully compared with New Order - if that makes any sense

If you discount their earliest days, Joy Division made surprisingly few missteps. Their oeuvre is small but perfect. Of their fifty odd songs, there are probably only two or three I don't much like. New Order are a bit more hit and miss, some of their stuff has dated more, some of Bernard's doggerel comes close to ruining good songs, some of their remixes aren't too good, I don't especially care for their last couple of albums. And I can't imagine Ian Curtis doing World In Motion.

or "Anarchy in the UK" still, they were not kidding about their version of "Louie Louie" right?

IC died young. He may have turned into an embarrasing old fart like the rest of us too.

I can't imagine Ian Curtis doing World In Motion.

Talk about missed opportunities!

I suspect IC would have been a fun-hating negative influence on NO's continued development. Part of what makes NO great is their total willingness to make utter fools of themselves - World In Motion, playing on the Babewatch set - because their willingness to make fools of themselves results in genius just as often as it does in foolishness.

Bull props to Barney for not becoming a new "ian" even though there were many impersonators, and not writing overached poetry in response to Ian's great writing.

I know that's damning with faint praise to say the least, but they would have come unstuck trying to continue 'with the good work'...

bull props? Ahem, full props, obv.

Is that a rugby union term or sumptin'?

I'm still boggling at the idea of Ian Curtis grumping his way through "World In Motion".

haha me too

eeeeeeeeeng-errrrrrrrrrrr-land

Maybe he could have done the rap bit.

Would Ian Curtis ever perform in boxer shorts, tall white socks and loafers?

i doubt it.

NEW ORDER!

I love Barney's scratched on the back of a napkin between cups of tea lyrics.

Which is funny because 'scratched on the back of a napkin between cups of tea' is a lyric from an unreleased song during the Brotherhood sessions.

(The song was of course called "A Corner.")

I love Barney's scratched on the back of a napkin between cups of tea lyrics.

There's Pernod in that tea, I imagine.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

i may have voted for the same group twice

Well, I'm satisfied with those results.

We won!

Very satisfactory. JD are awesome but NO are the awesomest. Am listening to Perfect Kiss now.

This is the way things must be.

fail!

IN THE END YOU WILL SUBMIT IT'S GOT TO HURT YOU A LITTLE BIT
I need help. Please, I need help.

Theives Like Us.
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Fuck it all

"I've lived my life on alcohol/I've lived my life on pills/it's called love/and it's the only thing worth living for"

Just shove your Blue Monday up your ass, give up. Forget it.

Bizarre Love Triangle fuckers can come out of the closet now and DIE, just DIE.

Man, I didn't see this thread until now. ;_;

The answer is Joy Division, btw.

Thank you Tape Store!!! :)

Oh just fuck it all

Grimly, help. Where is grimly when I need him?

Anyway we can agree to disagree on Joy Division. Everything will be fine. Don't worry. We can agree to disagree.

and it helps your life
like a broken knife

Ian would have been so happy to see what the lads had done with synthesizers.

a steady hand

I hate you all you're going to make me have a vinyl orgasm in about 45 seconds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mm6ycEz2A8

Okay what the hell

that is just bizarre all the way around

gah. jamie oliver is everywhere.

Explains why the New Order remastering has been such a problem. I can hear Keith Allen now: "Nah, mate, the original tapes went missing..."

Guns, jewelry and Factory masters? I bet the police can beat this out of Bez.

Shaun was all ready to call Tony Wilson with the ransom demands but then couldn't remember where he left everything and soon forgot there was a stash house in the first place.

crazy. hopefully we'll see something neat come from those tapes provided Hooky and Barney can talk to each other long enough to get it done

Hooky found the original master for "Unknown Pleasures" in much the same way, in the basement of the Hacienda. According to his book, it was acting as grounding for the dance floor.

The Onion weighs in

Hopefully the masters are in pretty good shape. I seem to remember Robert Smith saying a few years back that the masters to 'Seventeen Seconds' got severely damaged.

this wasn't true, btw, it was clarified elsewhere that this situation is the one hook outlined as happeneing several years ago. people misinterpreted oliver's tweet.

Alan Mcgee is flogging off all his old shit and it contains many, many items of interest to the New Order / Joy Division obsessive such as myself (but please don't bid on item 91 because I want that for sentimentral reasons - k thanx)

New Order stuff

Joy Division stuff

aww i was hoping one of the t-shirts was the one with ian with head in hands & lots of small orange squares at the bottom - they were everywhere c. 1983-5 and i'd get all sentimental for one of those (+ that photocopied book collecting music press clippings & badly transcribed lyrics!)

Which one is item 91? You can't tell until after you've clicked on one.

"Prev Lot | Next Lot" on right hand side once you've clicked on one

It's a poster for a gig in 1988 with the Mondays and ACR. I went with the woman who is now Mrs. Trifle (awwww...).

http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/omega-auctions/catalogue-id-2855969/lot-13310497