Colin Stetson - New History Warfare pt 2: Judges

Colin Stetson! I used to bump elbows w/ this dude back when he used to play house-parties in Ann Arbor w/ a crazy psychedelic free-jazz outfit called Transmission (this being 10-15 years ago). I had heard about his many high-profile collabs, but I will def have to check this thing out..

Of the other sax dudes mentioned itt, I'm def also down w/ Mats Gustafsson & Peter Brötzmann

He reincarnated that band or moved it when he moved to the Bay Area.

I'm pretty sure he took the name & maybe a couple players. I remember him coming back through the midwest in the early 00s w/ an outfit called the Transmission Trio - anyway, here's this: http://listenlabs.com/transmission.html

yeah, I remember seeing the Transmission Trio at least once.

The sound on this record is so immense and raw, even though it's got so many more silent moments. I'm bracing myself every single time I put it on, it blows me away.

Best I've heard this year.

it's shaping up to be a frontrunner, for sure. so dense and powerful and unique.

actually love shara woden's vocals on this.

This is so, so great:

http://vimeo.com/19110127

Also John Butcher for super-advanced technique allied with great musicality. He does the percussive thing really well, and manipulates feedback through his horn to mindblowing results.

Liking this Stetson record, but it's definitely less free-jazz and more into Terry Riley territory in some respects: the overlapping repetitions and what not.

Hey, what's a good John Butcher record to check out? Is it something that translates well to record, or is it best experienced live? Seems like he does a lot of "playing the room/environment", which is something I definitely feel, but obviously can be tough to translate to a recording.

i think it depends on who he's playing with. I've seen him do really quiet stuff, but I've also seen him actually play the saxophone.

This is so, so good, except for the spoken word parts.

Along similar enough lines, has anybody else on here enjoyed this?
http://boomkat.com/downloads/321345-thomas-ankersmit-live-in-utrecht

this album sounds so good. playing it very loud with the window wide open seems just right for some reason

A predictably sniffy review in The WIRE which opines that you might like this if you've never heard of Evan Parker despite most other reviews and Stetson himself mentioning him as an influence. I told my mate who's really into free jazz about this and he went berserk about it. Said it was appalling like Hooked On Classics or Jean Michelle Jarre.

what's appalling ? Stetson or the wire ?

I don't think The WIRE's appalling. I've bought it every month for the last decade. I just mean you can often tell in advance when they're going to go, 'No, no, no dear boy! You're doing it all wrong...'

In the rush to decry him as a pale imitation of Evan Parker ("He plays with Arcade Fire... Gosh, how middle brow...") they've missed the revolutionary aspect of what he does, which is the way the album is recorded via scores and scores of contact microphones in single takes.

But no, The WIRE's brilliant, and more importantly, it would cease to be brilliant if it didn't maintain clear distance between what they cover and everything else.

My mate thinks it's appalling which I only mention as I see him as a typical consumer of 'difficult', 'avant garde' music.

I love the album. It's one of my favourites of the year so far. I'm currently writing up a feature on Stetson for The Quietus.

didn't know there was a thread about this album! such beautiful sounds. I listen to "The Righteous Wrath of an Honorable Man" pretty much every night these days.

I could definitely see why such a person would find this album appalling, in that it is neither difficult nor avant garde

I find such people a bit sad.

they've missed the revolutionary aspect of what he does, which is the way the album is recorded via scores and scores of contact microphones in single takes

But that doesn't affect the way I respond to the album as a listener. As I mentioned upthread I am one of those free jazz fans (also a dedicated Wire reader, btw) who is not bowled over by this album, simply because it doesn't sound all that thrilling or innovative when held up next to Parker or Gustafsson in full flight. Fetishizing the way it was recorded is kind of beside the point imo.

i used to have a regular sunday poker game w/ this dude's younger brother. Colin's career has been on a pretty stellar upward trajectory for quite a while now, but, even so, I would not have expected him to drop an unaccompanied solo record that is inexplicably, completely objectively, my favorite album of 2011 thusfar by a wide margin. I mean, I'm normally not even all that crazy about saxophones in general (or maybe I just haven't been listening to the right things?)

i enjoy this record and know nothing about that kind of stuff...

which parker, butcher or gustafsson albums should i be into ?

But that doesn't affect the way I respond to the album as a listener.

really? i didn't care for this much until i read about how it was recorded, that definitely made me hear it in another way.

Yeah, not you anagram but anyone from WIREsville who reckons the process or the philosophy isn't important is being a bit rich really. Also given that what he does is at the other end of the sax scale from Mats, isn't it unfair to compare them?

that is the wire praxis though, anything 'mainstream' making experimental claims usually gets shot down. off the top of my head i think of battles "mirrored" which received a poor review when released, but then made its way to their EOY-list anyway... sure there are more recent examples, haven't had subscription for a while though

Fetishizing the way it was recorded is kind of beside the point imo.

not really, if the point of the music is to focus on rhythm and sound (in a very different way than those other solo sax guys)?

Also given that what he does is at the other end of the sax scale from Mats, isn't it unfair to compare them?

sure their techniques are different but all I said was that it doesn't sound all that thrilling or innovative to me. given that those are the kind of adjectives that are being bandied about in connection with this record I thought the comparison was valid. but yeah Evan Parker would be a better comparison than Gustafsson, both he and Stetson make heavy use of circular breathing for example which Gustafsson doesn't. Parker has that serpentine, fluttery sound which is totally trance-inducing. Stetson can do this up to a point but Parker has been doing it for 40 years.

which parker, butcher or gustafsson albums should i be into ?

What I wrote in another jazz thread:

If you like Stetson then you'd be better off going for one of Parker's solo sax recordings like The Snake Decides or Conic Sections. My favourite Parker line-up would be his trio with Barry Guy and Paul Lytton, they've done a number of albums of which At the Vortex (1996) is my favourite. Also key: his trio with Alex von Schlippenbach and Paul Lovens, of which Winterreise comes recommended.

Re Mats Gustafsson, see my post upthread. Not sure about Butcher.

Saying both "Evan Parker has done this before" and also "I don't give a shit how it was mic'd" leaves me confused.
You're content to write off an artist because you've quickly identified his influences and a key aspect of his technique,
But then you claim that people who admire his innovative mic placement and mixing abilities are fetishists.
I dunno, I mean, when it comes to circular breathing sax players playing at 200 bpm
(Bass sax, in Colin's case), I'm not too hung up on "this has been done before"

Also +1 on any recommendation for The Snake Decides and Conic Sections
But it sounds nothing like Judges, save that it also contains a saxophone

Well I guess there's a difference between admiring a player's technique and admiring his kit or his set-up. I mean, I like Gilmour solos but I have no idea what kind of guitar he uses or how he makes it sound the way it does. At the end of the day all I'm saying is, if you like Stetson you ought to like Parker.

xp

holy shit dudes, this guy is something to see live. and Owen's right, the mic placement isn't some obscure trainspotting shit, it's an integral part of his sound.

IT DOESN'T FUCKING SOUND LIKE AN EVAN PARKER RECORD. YOU ARE BEING BORING. I AM DRUNK. SHUT UP.

(xpost)

At the end of the day all I'm saying is, if you like Stetson you ought to like Parker.

I love Stetson and like/respect Evan Parker even more and on a different level, but I do not think this ^ is an accurate statement.

Finally getting around to hearing this album and I like it quite a bit, but to echo the thoughts of others I might like it even more without the spoken word bits and vocal parts. I just want to hear this dude play his sax all day long. But I did want to address this point:

I could definitely see why such a person would find this album appalling, in that it is neither difficult nor avant garde

I think this is a bit silly and dismissive, particularly wrt to people who aren't up on their Mats or Parker or even Wire. I mean, for someone out there this will be difficult and it may certainly seem avant garde to someone who's coming from, I don't know, Miles Davis as an introduction for them to the possibilities of jazz. I've really liked a lot of what Owen has had to say over the years and totally respect his opinion, but I can't help but sense a bit of the expert sniffing at the newcomer with that, "THIS is NOT difficult nor avant garde". Maybe not to you, but to someone it just might be.

Yeah, but it's just not difficult is it? Some cool teacher in my school used to play shit like Philip Glass and Michael Nyman in assemblies, no one ran out screaming because musically it's quite straightforward and easy to get your head round - even if there is a lot of theory to go with it or knowledge of process to go with it. As is this.

It might sound a bit "odd" at first if you're coming to it not having heard anything similar - a bit inexplicably ragged and harsh but I can't see how that would be a bar to potential enjoyment.

For starters Miles Davis is generally more difficult 'to get' than this surely?

Of course it's impossible to say really as it's totally subjective etc. but we're really just talking about arpegios and simple note progressions repeated. Or pop music as my WIRE reading mate calls it.

For starters Miles Davis is generally more difficult 'to get' than this surely?

Well I guess maybe we are working from different ideas of what "difficult" means. I don't think finding something to enjoy in Miles is that tough, especially his more lauded work. There are melodies, solos and other components pretty easy to grab onto, even as a rookie jazz listener. I don't think there is much on the Stetson album that would provide an "easy" entry point for the novice.

Fair enough. Although I've heard a lot of Miles Davis I only really listen to the electric stuff but I get what you're saying.

it has tons of melodic and rhythmic repetition, in a way that should definitely make sense to anyone with electronic/dance music ears

Damn

Yeah this is cool.

this is great stuff, just heard it for the first time last week, it gets better and deeper with each listen

new one: so far, so good

find it strange that nobody's commented on this already, but then ILM's shift to house and rap exclusivity is almost complete so I barely expect anything else

here's yer stream: http://www.npr.org/2013/04/21/177495625/first-listen-colin-stetson-new-history-warfare-vol-3-to-see-more-light?sc=fb&cc=fmp

I'm interested, just been too busy to check it out yet. Thanks for reminding!

super super competent
but can't help but feel a bit let down on this one, on my listens so far.

only a matter of time until 'brute' ends up in some manic dubstep mix.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c7YvSMyIso

Gorecki is pretty low on my list of composers I rate but this is terrific

🤔

this Gorecki album of his is brilliant.

This seemed kinda boring to me. Wanted it to be more Stetson-y, if that makes sense.

OTOH, it being not all that Stetson-y is what makes it so great to me. I've always loved the original recording with Dawn Upshaw and so I was really worried that Stetson would screw this one up, but he's done a fine job I have to say.

this is pretty epic.

looking forward to opening for him & Sarah Neufeld in a few months btw :)

i initially wanted this to be more stetson-y but ultimately liked a lot as it is

New album soon and here's the first track:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJHr2DlRog8&feature=youtu.be

link broek :(

Huh, weird, worked fine for me on a check just now.

not working for me either but anyway here it is on bandcamp

https://colinstetson.bandcamp.com/album/all-this-i-do-for-glory

thanks!

This is really good but it's a little frustrating how it's almost a house track, except that it doesn't keep a consistent tempo (actually it would be hilarious to play this in a dance music set).

Another new track

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T690rDJ7c80

Ex Eye record waayyyyy outdoes my expectations. It's frigging great

Ooooh yeah

I love the Ex Eye album too. but i don't care for the gorecki.

saw him live last week and he was amazing, one new track in particular was unbelievably intense, I couldn't stop grinning

Gorecki, Ex Eye, love them both

Damn, let me be the last to say this Ex Eye album is great. Now I want Stetson to make an album with GY!BE.

Ex Eye is insanely good. This may be the best thing I've heard this year.

The Hereditary OST is the first thing I've properly loved by CS since Judges. The closing run of Peter, Chasing Peter, The Attic, Reborn and Hail Paemon! is boss.

Discovered this via eoy lists and it's hitting me right today

https://brighdechaimbeul.bandcamp.com/album/carry-them-with-us
https://thequietus.com/articles/32829-brdghe-chaimbeul-carry-them-with-us-review

Brìghse Chaimbeul has risen to prominence since her first album, 2019’s entrancing The Reeling, in a way that few Scottish pipers have achieved, including playing for world leaders at COP26 in Glasgow. Her instrument is the smallpipes, a more portable, practical version of the Great Highland bagpipes which also carry fewer cultural assumptions. Chaimbeul has brought Scottish piping to a new audience with her captivating style, which has affinity with psychedelic drone as well as the folk traditions of the north. On ‘Carry Them With Us’, she shows her complete confidence as a musician through a collaboration with saxophonist Colin Stetson, which was formed initially over Twitter during lockdown.

The album is mostly instrumental, but its tracks tell stories. ‘Banish the Giant of Doubt and Despair’, for example, is a reel that starts quick and spins out of control, reflecting the tale of the princess of an underwater kingdom and the giant of the Western Isles who cannot stop dancing to her song, faster and faster until he falls into the sea and drowns. Melodic cascades flow from Chaimbeul’s pipes as though she can barely restrain them, while a bass drone and subtle, breathy saxophone combine seamlessly to set the scene. Stetson, who has been in several bands including Arcade Fire and has worked with everyone from Anthony Braxton to Tom Waits, is a subtle musician. Despite the unconventional pairing of instruments, they often seem to make a single sound. After her collaboration with major Scottish folk scene figures ‘The Reeling’, she is branching out to make new sounds.

The result is an exciting, sometimes bewitching set of tunes. Some are improvised, the two musicians working together with consummate ease.