funky house sceptics, let me draw your attention to this

XD at that "Head Shoulders Knees N Toes" track

"At the end of the day though I think there are just too many people who like stuff to be pointlessly "moody". It'll start to take its toll eventually."

im not sure that the threat is as big as you imply, i do share your thoughts to a certain extent, but to play devil's advocate...

funky seems to have a quite huge and relatively stable infrastructure of promoters and raves, and it seems to me that really the key is what happens there... djs and producers must be making much more cash off of raves than records... bookings, dubplate sales etc, and thats what i would think would most likely drive changes to the main thrust of the sound. it just doesn't seem like boomkat selling 12s and apple getting loads of forum / blog adulation for whatever reason is gonna change that. surely the real threat is not people who want it moody or deep but those who want it aggy, if 2-step's trajectory is any indication? you listen to what most promoters or producers from within the scene are saying and the fear is of kids with attitudes and too many mc's taking over, not too much self-conscious moodiness / desire for 'deep' vibes

it also raises something which i've considered from time to time... the extent to which widely visible internet platforms (blogs, popular web mags, forums etc) can be taken to reflect the spirit of any given scene or 'the times' as it were... or whether they often present a skewed reflection of the way things are happening in clubs or scenes or whatever. i make my way to a fairly broad range of places and parties and i find that very rarely are the experiences i have there reflected by the buzz around them or the most visible 'spokespersons' of those scenes if you know what i mean. i guess what im saying in that is that 'moody' scenes and people are probably massively over represented on the internet... from being out and about in London it seems to me that relatively speaking people who only like it heads down in a club are very very few and far between

I think I agree with Benjamin here, and in any case I can think of pretty solid commercial reasons why promoters would prefer a scene dominated by uplifting, fun, girl-friendly records than one dominated by moody blokes nodding their heads.

That said most dance genres to tend towards the latter after they get to a certain age but I can't see that happening here for a good couple of years or so.

Some of those vocals and beats on the last Marcus Nasty set are pretty bland. There is practically no vocal science in the songs, no edge, which wouldnt matter if the songs were any good, but most of them just aren't. I wish funky had a 'heartbroken', perhaps that vocal on hard house bantons blog which i dont know the name of (2.08 on the first track on his blog. . name anyone?) which i love, because most of the vocals I'm hearing are just nothing, compared to say the classics of 2 step. I was pretty disappointed by some of the beats as well. I'm not hearing the 'ravey joyfulness' at all. I'm hearing ultrablandness.

Well the moody tracks I'm talking about are also "aggy" tracks - only "deep" in the sense of not being cheesy (cf. "deep" funky tracks from the more relatively more conservative end of the scene e.g. Perempay's "Hypnotic").

"I think I agree with Benjamin here, and in any case I can think of pretty solid commercial reasons why promoters would prefer a scene dominated by uplifting, fun, girl-friendly records than one dominated by moody blokes nodding their heads."

I hope you guys are right. But I ran this line for a long time with garage.

I think the issue is that promoters driven by commercial concerns can always just switch over to R&B and house if they need to. And the audiences for the lighter end of funky will for the most part happily follow if funky starts getting too masculine. After all, there's much less difference between vocal funky and regular vocal house than there was between 2-step and vocal house or 2-step and R&B.

"I'm not hearing the 'ravey joyfulness' at all. I'm hearing ultrablandness."

Which set are you talking about jon? Last week's? Some of it is bland, but mainly the crappy angry tracks (e.g. Mak 10's) that i'm complaining about... Which tracks do you mean?

I love that track with the weird wracked diva yelling "I don't want! I don't want! I don't wanna be with you!!"

"most of the vocals I'm hearing are just nothing, compared to say the classics of 2 step."

I dunno, what are you comparing this too? "Flowers" and the Groove Asylum remix of "Loveshy", sure, those have yet to be matched, but Jesus isn't born every day...

Toppatop girly vocal funky anthems (in roughly descending order of greatness and just off the top of my head):

Geeneus - As I
Wookie ft. Ny - Falling
KCat - Get On The Floor (Delio D'Cruz Remix) (not the just-okay house mix masquerading under its name that Lex posted to this thread)
Quentin Harris - My Joy (Malice Refix)
Kyla - Do You Mind (Crazi Cousinz Remix)
Perempay & Dee - In The Air
Tawiah - Every Step (Arms Remix)
TNT - Your Mind, Your Body, Your Soul
Hard House Banton - Turn It Around
Norris Windross - Live Life
DVA - I'm Leaving
Princess - Frontline

Also one that has slowly become a sentimental favourite is the bumping one that goes "you know you wanna dance, get your back up off the wall... hhhavveeaadddriinnnnk... you know you wanna boogie, got yourself a brand new hoodie, and you know you're looking good, G, looking good, G, looking good, G..." What's that called again?

i make my way to a fairly broad range of places and parties and i find that very rarely are the experiences i have there reflected by the buzz around them or the most visible 'spokespersons' of those scenes if you know what i mean. i guess what im saying in that is that 'moody' scenes and people are probably massively over represented on the internet... from being out and about in London it seems to me that relatively speaking people who only like it heads down in a club are very very few and far between

Interesting point because it depends what you want to measure their representation against. if you threw the net wide enough in London, you'd catch thousands of terrible wine bars playing pop, Ritzi-style clubs aimed at hen do's, student rock nights etc. Thing is no one really blogs about these kinds of experiences, but then you need to ballance that against the over representation of rock and pop in the music press and the under representation of underground sounds in those mags. so perhaps blogs are just working to redress the commercial bias of the media.

On another note, re Tim's point above, the vocal side of funky is coming on nicely. Princess "Frontline" is a persy, as is "In the Air." And i've been all over Kyla remix since April. I much prefer Marcus Nasty sets when he's with Quincy and is playing vocal stuff too.

That's the thing about close genres and how they interact: to me funky is filling several different needs right now. it's serving both London grime fans and some of the dubstep headz' with danceability and feminine vocal pressure, two things their respective genres forgot about.

Yes, I think this sense of "filling several different needs" is U&K.

I like Quincy because he's such a party time guy, I like how he toasts even when he has nothing to say.

The problem with the Rankin'-only sets is that when Rankin' has nothing to say he just shuts up for long stretches, over tracks that really need an MC to work. And then half the time he just recites his lines as if he's passing time.

I still think his best moment over funky (that i've heard at least - I should stop acting like an omniscient expert) was his set with Shantie, especially the middle section where they traded tracks back and forth over "Gabryelle (Refix)" and "Rising Sun" and the like.

"I think the issue is that promoters driven by commercial concerns can always just switch over to R&B and house if they need to. And the audiences for the lighter end of funky will for the most part happily follow if funky starts getting too masculine. After all, there's much less difference between vocal funky and regular vocal house than there was between 2-step and vocal house or 2-step and R&B."

this is definitely a good point. and if some producers are alienated into moving further towards trad house in reaction to the onset of the grimey stuff then that perpetuates it. time will tell i guess, just got to enjoy the balance while it (if it!) lasts

shame to hear that about Mak 10's tune, i'm quite surprised, he seems very keen on the softer and vocal sides of house, but there you go

"no one really blogs about these kinds of experiences, but then you need to ballance that against the over representation of rock and pop in the music press and the under representation of underground sounds in those mags. so perhaps blogs are just working to redress the commercial bias of the media."

indeed, there was no negative judgement in what i said, i too think its good that there are outlets for different ways of looking at the world. i was just saying that the looming threat of the shadowy downcast masses may not be as significant as the internet might suggest!

i dont entirely buy the dark music always = unhappy people, argument though. often very unhappy people like shimmery, throwaway pop because it helps them forget. but that doesn't mean they're happy people to begin with.

and similarly people like dark music because it's exciting or has an element of seriousness to it, but that doesn't mean they're intrinsically unhappy. i'm very happy when a big bassline drops!

"i dont entirely buy the dark music always = unhappy people, argument though. often very unhappy people like shimmery, throwaway pop because it helps them forget. but that doesn't mean they're happy people to begin with."

I absolutely agree with that. Having said that there's a certain vibe to dancefloors playing dark/heavy/muscular that tend to be.... dark, heavy and muscular!

D&B nights and the more one-note dubstep nights actually strike me as quite cheerful. Lots of crowing when the tracks get rewound etc. Esp. with those kind of dubstep nights (playing Caspa style stuff) it kind of annoys me because I can't connect with it much and everyone else enjoying themselves so ostentatiously makes me feel a bit resentful.

"shame to hear that about Mak 10's tune, i'm quite surprised, he seems very keen on the softer and vocal sides of house, but there you go"

I'm hoping it's a one-off misstep.

"i dont entirely buy the dark music always = unhappy people, argument though. often very unhappy people like shimmery, throwaway pop because it helps them forget. but that doesn't mean they're happy people to begin with."

yeh absolutely, of course. i suppose with regard to my earlier statement read 'moody people' as 'people who like to listen to moody music', without intended judgement on their psychological states or the complex reasons that they're drawn to those experiences or sounds

Also one that has slowly become a sentimental favourite is the bumping one that goes "you know you wanna dance, get your back up off the wall... hhhavveeaadddriinnnnk... you know you wanna boogie, got yourself a brand new hoodie, and you know you're looking good, G, looking good, G, looking good, G..." What's that called again?

that's rudimental - 'feet have souls'. love it too

http://www.myspace.com/1rudimentalrecordings

It's one of those tracks that seems a bit underwhelming the first time through but the more you listen the more charming and lovable and slightly odd it becomes. Those lyrics!

jeez, i'd left this thread for dead and now i find it's been raging.

@ rltlc:

"god i could barely hear it above the wonderful sound of some canadian junglist wanker's twatois flashcards flying out his hands halfway across the world."

speaking as the resident canadian funky fan, i don't even know what you're on about here. do you?

anyway, marcus' sets have indeed been getting increasingly monochromatic. the b2b with mak10 had (to my ears) a near perfect balance - precarious with all the different elements checking and building on each other. but you could already hear the momentum shifting. the mc one was exciting as an experiment but if that becomes the norm it'll kill off a lot of what drew people there in the first place.

interestingly, roska said on the funky forum that he didn't like that set at all. also that that he regretted making a few tunes that were too grimey and plans to head further back into house territory. understandable given the deluge of spare, grimey tracks recently. some of the new stuff is just starting to remind me of something like "straight" by mondie. remember that one? the dullest, most stripped down grime track ever. and MCs loved it so much that they put out something like three 12"s of vocal versions.

still, i'm loving lots of it, just mostly when it's all thrown together and all the different styles are playing off of each other over the course of a set.

"just got to enjoy the balance while it (if it!) lasts"

exactly. people making this "funky will be good when..." argument are already missing it.

Princess - Frontline

^^this is a really awesome tune (btw it's princess nyah)

So, that Geeneus album then. I wasn't expecting to hear such a range of influences - at times, I can hear echoes of early 90s Strictly Rhythm and Sheffield bleep-n-bass, for instance. "As I" is my clear favourite, while the Benga remix comes as a slight let-down as he doesn't really do that much with it compared to the original. As for the mix CD: 31 tracks in 60 minutes is rushing it a bit, but I like the wide range of styles, and at least he slows down for long enough to give "In The Air" a bit of breathing space.

"I can hear echoes of early 90s Strictly Rhythm and Sheffield bleep-n-bass, for instance."

Yeah some of his earliest tracks, mainly on Dumpvalve, had strong techno influences which seem to be coming back in his funky tunes.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/yg45iy

New Marcus Nasty set (courtesy of Dissensus)

Includes a new tune by upmarket dubstep's finest Ramadanman.

its worth noting that as far as im aware Ramadanman has been into deep / soulful house as long as he has dubstep though...

The man has good taste in general, I'm excited to see him taking a stab at this music.

the vocal tunes from funky are growing on me. not really heard much on the level of do you mind or as i yet but theres a few others from the last few months that seem decent.

anyone else get kind of a 80s NY house feel from some of the instrumentals? they have that hard brittle percussive vibe to them.

The man has good taste in general, I'm excited to see him taking a stab at this music.

yeh man i think he will come with goods

btw has anyone checked DJ Mystery's new tunes on myspace? http://www.myspace.com/1djmystery

feeling Turn It Around majorly, very big vibes on that, seems like that vocal could be quite anthemic. so ravey, which is interesting... don't think i've heard anything so ravey from funky yet, only one that comes close is that Scotty D tune with the 'Destruction keeps happening" vocal

most people will know Mozart i guess it seems like its been getting hammered by quite a few djs

"seems like that vocal could be quite anthemic"

what i actually meant to say was epic!

perempay rmx of teedra moses on his myspazz omg!!!!

ah very nice. but youd have to be a complete idiot to ruin that song. best remix of be your girl is the bmore club one tho...

love that bopstar remix of in the air though... so good.

apparently funky producers are holding 'scene meetings', ukg/jungle style, to crack down on the grime-style riddim tracks (according to this crazy cousins interview i read in shook magazine)...

link? post article?

okay lol @ that

"according to this crazy cousins interview i read in shook magazine)..."

which issue is that? i just downloaded the two most recent (winter, summer) from www.shook.fm but i don't see it.

Perempay N Dee ft Shola Ama - DJ Play
http://www.zshare.net/audio/53597844a2be77e6/

huge track...

wow thanks, loving that

latest one. issue 4 i think.

(xpost)

lil silva - seasons/funky flex is banging http://www.chemical-records.co.uk/sc/servlet/Info?Track=LILSILVA

Seasons is probably the stand-out, both very grimey with great bass.

decent mix here by jackmaster of glasgow's numbers: http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=73011

Tracklisting:

Lil Silva - Funky Flex
Apple - Siegalizer
Roska - Our Father
Donaeo - African Warrior
Roska - Elevated Levels
Palceface & Kyla - Do You Mind (Crazy Cousins Remix)
Roska - Tack Tiles
Lil Silva - Seasons
D Malice - Gabrielle Refix
Kode 9 & LD - Bad
Martyn - Vancouver
Skream - If You Know
Zomby - Rumours & Revolutions
Perempay & Dee - Buss It

Liking this nice ‘funky’ mix I'm listening to, which I got on Little Detroit:

http://www.factmagazine.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1723&Itemid=28

It’s more techy than I would have thought (plus there is deep house on it as well), but they are primarily a techno forum so that’s no surprise. How do you guys on here think it sits with the rest of the sound?

01 Ill Blu - Frontline (Roska Special)

02 Darkus Beat Company - Promise (Roska Remix)

03 Perempay & Dee - Hypnotic

04 Roska - Feeline (Roska 10K Dub Plate)

05 Karizma - I C U

06 Hard House Banton - Reign

07 Geeneus - As I (feat. Katy B)

08 Audiowhores - Make a Choice

09 Donaeo - Party Hard (Suges - We Belong to the Night)

10 Kenny Dope - Sound Bwoy

11 Roska - Gone to a Better Place

12 Hard House Banton - Sirens

13 Gary Bardouille - Starting Over

14 Karizma - It's What I Am (Simbad Remix)

15 Wookie - Gallium

16 Fingaprint - Take Over

17 Magic Touch - Hips

18 Geeneus - Yellowtail

19 Roska - Feeline (Original Mix)

20 Kentphonik - Sunday Showers

21 Crazy Cousinz - Inflation

22 Roska - Holograph

23 Roska - Climate Change (Original Mix)

24 D Malice - Gabrieylle Refix (Roska Special)

25 Roska - In Your Handbag

26 Nick Holder - Erotic Illusions (Triple T O V Mix)

27 DJ Gregory - Vasefa (Argy Remix)

28 Geeneus - Into the Future

29 Afefe Iku - Mirror Dance

30 Roska - Over the Horizons

That doesn't seem that far away from a usual funky set once you get over the relative lack of vocal tunes. Also I'm assuming this is an ID for the ace funky version of "Erotic Illusions" I've been hearing of late.

‘Roska - Gone to a Better Place’ sounds remarkably close to (what I consider) tech house. I like it.

i think Hard House Banton might be my favourite producer name ever.

I was just having a chuckle at that one too.

this seems quite a slow moving scene.

I like the FACT Roska mix (especially as it's 256kbps). Smoothly flowing and agreeably varied.

ah, that looks good, downloading now.

this CC inflation track is so crappy! its like a playschool xylophone line played with basic grime changes (but obv cos its a nice sound its 'classy').

re: slow moving...

I saw Marcus Nasty at aka for the rinse night recently and he was playing pretty much all stuff from last spring... On the other hand that's probably because it wasn't a proper funky night. Dunno, doesn't seem to have been much more of the good stuff since last summer though - just novelty dance tunes.