Bogart learns to love La Resistance: Casablanca vs To Have And Have Not

vertigo's stupid, never saw the big deal about it

also, "I am shocked...shocked" among the most-quoted character actor lines of all time.

― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Saturday, February 19, 2011 9:45 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark

haha i only recently realized where this thing i have said lots of times came from

haven't seen either of these films in a long-ass time

even though bacall and bergman set new standards for screen beauty, they're both pretty far down my list of 'great movies', but 'casablanca' is better

I said upthread that I think Casablanca's a little overrated, and I'll stand by that. One Curtiz film I think is underrated is Mildred Pierce. It was a long time before I watched it--always assumed it'd be really stagy and drippy--and when I finally did, I was surprised by its weirdness, how it's much more of a noir than the soap opera I was expecting, and how artful the camerawork is.

my challops of the day: Bergman's performance in Casablanca (distracted, confused, which makes sense if you know the movie's back story) is one of her least persuasive.

Mildred Pierce is great, but is it really underrated?

As I said, I much preferred Carol Burnett's Mildred Fierce, after which the Crawford version can only seem a giggle. The Cain book is sumthin, lookin fwd to the Haynes miniseries.

I don't how you measure such things, by my sense is that Mildred Pierce is underrated--that what's great about has been overwhelmed by Crawford's persona, and that it's been reduced to caricature by things like the Carol Burnett parody (which I don't remember, but I'm sure it's great).

Well, but I've seen a major Crawford reevaluation in recent years: from renewed appreciation of her terrific no-frills performance in Daisy Kenyon to Denby's long essay a few months ago.

Also, the Marseillaise scene makes me cry every time

morbs! me too!

has anyone actually read the hemingway novel 'to have and have not'? is it anything like the movie?

It has been many years, but iirc this was kind of his attempt to hack out a crime novel to a) make some quick money and perhaps b) show his hardboiled imitators how it was really done. It doesn't come off as a sustained narrative, maybe because it was written as short stories for magazines. It is much wilder than the movie, very violent and macho -- not as tough as Hammett, but a good imitation of the imitators. All the World War II stuff in the movie is Hollywood, not Hemingway.

I've picked it up a few times to re-read, but the creepy 30's racism keeps putting me off.

Hawks claimed Hemingway told him the book was "junk," but HH was known to embellish the truth.

I don't how you measure such things, by my sense is that Mildred Pierce is underrated--that what's great about has been overwhelmed by Crawford's persona, and that it's been reduced to caricature by things like the Carol Burnett parody (which I don't remember, but I'm sure it's great).

― clemenza, Saturday, February 26, 2011 2:40 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark

it's not really underrated. example: it's been adapted by todd haynes with kate winslett for hbo.

haven't read the book, but it's not a particularly interesting film, unless you specialize in a certain era of hollywood.

one of Crawford's most boring performances too.

I always laugh when, during the diner montage, Crawford in voice-over says, "I got good tips and was happy to get them." I go, YEAH CUZ IF YOU DON'T GET THEM THAT POOR GUY'S GONNA BE SORRY.

it weirded me out when I found out winslet was playing MP because she feels so young to me still, but then i found out crawford was only 40 when she did it - still seems weird to me though

Mildred sposed to have been a young mother I think... (Anne Hathaway is going to be playing 'old' Judy Garland in a biopic, THAT's weird)

yeah that's part of the character, but STILL. i just don't want to accept winslet no longer being an ingenue or w/e i guess

she's been through two husbands, don't think she gets to be an ingenue

perhaps costume will show off breeder hips

Also, the Marseillaise scene makes me cry every time

this is one of the best bits

THAHN is not ALL about sassy seduction - the main love-story is underplayed slightly (the kisses are passionate but fleeting) and the seduction stands for something grander and more escapist about grasping the moment. Plus, when the French couple come in later, injured and tired and deadly serious, there's grit and worry all right, just that it doesn't dominate the mood - it places bogart'n'bacall's happy-go-lucky shenanigans in perspective and gives the picture a more rounded feel

Did not know about the Curtiz remake. Probably owe it a watch now.

I think I've got it straight now with regards to Mildred Pierce: with rest of world, not underrated; on ILX, underrated.

Surprisingly, I couldn't find any Bogart threads (perhaps time for a poll?), but I'm reviving just to post this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sqoxk3SrZRw

Damn.

Boo! Anyway, it was the bookstore scene from The Big Sleep with Dorothy Malone.

Only watched African Queen for the first time the other day and it completely changed my perception of Bogie. He's so goofy in it!

btw that second go at THAHN, The Breaking Point w/ John Garfield, Phyllis Thaxter and Patricia Neal, is amazingly good.

When you see a '40s vehicle of Bogart's like Dead Reckoning come up second-rate, you realize how great the great stuff was.

watched CASABLANCA last night for the first time in years. few other films are so easily affecting: ilsa’s first appearance, rick’s drunken reminiscing, that rendition of “la marseillaise”...
fuck nazis!!

As I said in another Casablanca thread, several impressions why it is wonderful, but not exactly perfect:

• Fabulous photography!!! Moody, striking, atmospheric, dramatic - the whole ball of wax.

• The plot is total cornball, but the pacing and dialogue are so crisp that you never have time to dwell on the silliness of it all. Each vignette is a perfect little bon-bon of entertainment. No waste. No chewing necessary.

• Claude Rains was having a ball and so were the scriptwriters for him. Every line he spoke was a gem. Probably a commentary on Hollywood studios in there.

• Not a good scenery-chewing Nazi to be found anywhere, just the ho-hum cardboard kind.

• It is very rainy and foggy in Morrocco. Who knew?

It is very rainy and foggy in Morrocco. Who knew?

Prior to climate change altering things everywhere, Casablanca has slightly higher average rainfall than Southern California does.