Erasure were a better band, a better singles act, and have a better discography than the Pet Shop Boys

"Ship of Fools"

yup.

Erasure had zero peaks. They were the Hollies of their time - chart reliables, always on TV, always in the top ten, almost never at number one, never dreadful but hardly ever more than dull.

This may have been true in 1991.

(The header, I mean)

Very was released seven years after "West End Girls."

Pop! The First 20 Hits is solid, and Andy Bell's a fine singer, but, boy, did Clarke run out of tricks fast.

poor bastard, having to share a name with that cock out of hurricane #1

Alfred pretty much OTM -- I still have the albums up through Chorus but after that it was patchy as hell. The self-titled one is an odd bird, though -- Clarke's prog indulgence, indirectly. (Guest singers including Diamanda Galas!)

Pop! The First 20 Hits is solid, and Andy Bell's a fine singer, but, boy, did Clarke run out of tricks fast.

They have actually released some pretty strong albums lately. They had a strong down period from the mid 90s until the early oughties though.
Sure, you could say the same about Pet Shop Boys (And Erasure have never released anything as downright pointless as the "Release" album), but "Nightlife" was pretty good.

The Innocents is the only Erasure album I currently own (got rid of Chorus years ago), and no way is it as good as Introspective or Actually.

I won't say that Tennant's lyrics and point of view are the make-or-break point, but they DO inflect the music in subtle ways, as lyrics should. Meanwhile Bell seems too content with singing romantic generalities, and the music follows suit.

I consider "The Innocents" the weaker of the "classic" Erasure albums. It has Stephen Hague's typical late 80s standard "pop" sound stamped all over, and sounds less like a synthpop album than any other of their albums.

As a singles act I've always preferred Erasure. PSB are pretty unloveable, and irritating sometimes. The only albums I've owned/heard are The Innocents and Introspective, and I only liked the tracks that were singles on both (except "It's Alright").

PSB are pretty unloveable,

Perhaps the most insane thing I've ever read. Care to explain?

The premise of this thread is madness. As for 90s synthpop legends best singles:

Enjoy The Silence > Regret > Can You Forgive Her > Always. I'm not sure where Go West fits in here.

PSB have the edge in songwriting -- tunes and lyrics both. Erasure are fine on the former, often horrible on the latter. I'll call it a draw on vocals -- Tennant has a very limited instrument but uses it to great effect, Bell has range and volume but can get awfully shrill at times.

As for arrangements and instrumentation, PSB are certainly more tapped-in to dance music, but there's often something "canned" about their use of synths -- like they've loaded in the latest presets, bought the high-end sample libraries, hired the top programmers, but the arrangement ends up being about what's trendy instead of aligning with the feel of the song. Whereas Erasure's arrangements -- putting aside their unmemorable recent ventures into acoustic instrumentation -- are timeless and organic and really make their songs work. You could say: Tennant writes better melodies, but Clark writes better counter-melodies.

Unfortunately Erasure's arrangements are 1983 and Peter Powell and their songs were the kind of thing which Big Dennis Taylor reckoned was good pop on the Saturday Superstore Video Panel.

PSBs: ideas

Erasure: feelin's

"feelin's" of nausea morelike

blue savannah song i like u

Am I Right? is my fave, lol amirite

or amijusdreamin

meleeECI (4 weeks ago) Show Hide
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Erasure has the stupidest videos ... I love their music though. Just to put my 2cents in ... Gay is wrong but the music is good .. 2 different things.
arona1969 (2 weeks ago) Show Hide
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whats wrong in being gay? where are you from ?
meleeECI (2 weeks ago) Show Hide
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The creator, God, made man and woman to be together. Homosexuality is as wrong as hetero sex outside of marriage. God has a design and a plan. That plan does not include sexual activity outside of the bounds he created it for. That is why Gay is wrong .. this is the wrong forum to be discussing it though.

philipbutlin (5 hours ago) Show Hide
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i'm as straight as it gets but this group was fantastic

Srsly tho, just soulseeked "Sometimes", awesome.

Enjoy The Silence > Regret > Can You Forgive Her > Always.

I cannot possibly view "Regret" a synthpop song. "World" maybe, "Regret", no.

As for PSB/Erasure:

Erasure:

Positive:
- Really strong melodies, some killer choruses
- The prementioned counter melodies. Those "polyphonic" synth melodies in the background are maybe the best thing of all about all of Vince Clarke's musical projects
- Some really cool synth sounds. Vince is a masterful synth programmer. Even late 80s FM synths he often managed to get to sound cool, which was extremely difficult.
- With the exception of "The Innocents" and some late 90s/early 00s stuff, always faithful to their synthpop roots.
- Usually avoiding failed experiments with musical styles they better not visit too often

Negative:
- Extremely irrelevant for most of the 90s
- Andy Bell. I am sorry, but his vocals are sometimes terribly annoying
- Not that I am very interested in lyrics, but, yes, they are sometimes very horrible
- Could sometimes have benefited from being slightly more ambitious, and yet, the one time they were (the eponymous mid 90s album) they kind of failed.
- They aren't Yazoo nor Depeche Mode

As for Pet Shop Boys:

Positive:
- A strong row of 90s albums
- A great tongue-in-cheek and slightly ironic approach that gives their music sort of a double edge
- Some really classy songs
- Neil Tennant's vocal style fits perfectly

Negative:
- To many "hard" digital samples in their 80s material at times
- Some really ill-advised attempts at experimenting with "dance" styles they should have left untouched (house, latino etc.)
- The "Release" album. Worse than anything Erasure have ever done.-
- From the 90s onwards, Neil Tennant has sometimes sung in the same annoying falsetto way that Andy Bell does, decreasing his lead in the vocals part

Geir OTM re: Erasure, not so much re: PSB.

I like both these bands; which one I prefer depends on my mood.

PSB tower over Erasure.

PSB tower over Erasure.

In my mind this is true; in my ear I'm not so sure.

let's not think about the PSB's towers, please.

Geir has a couple of valid points, but this thread shouldn't even exist. True, the PSB have their highs (Actually) and lows (Release). But Erasure at their best is far from being at the same league as the the PSB at their best.

My thoughts exactly, except I also like Release (and might be the only one on this board).

I'm glad someone already mentioned the Abba-esque EP - great!

I don't consider "Actually" a high. It sounds way too 1987. Sounding 1982 is good, sounding 1987 not.

Just bouncing this as I forgot to add that "Chorus" was a better album that anything Pet Shop Boys have ever been close to coming up with.

Released at a time when synthpop was hardly existant at all, Erasure managed to come up with one of the best synthpop albums ever released.
It remains their only flawless classic though.

I have no clever, fancy comment on this. I can only agree with the fact that this thread should not even exist. Everything in that thread title is so wrong.

Actually, "Actually" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Chorus"

Re: Erasure

...Usually avoiding failed experiments with musical styles they better not visit too often

How can someone criticize the Boys' "failed" latino experiments (I guess you are referring to "Domino Dancing" and "Bilingual") when Erasure have the colossal tripe that is "La Gloria", one of the worst songs ever recorded?

"Domino Dancing" worked out somewhat, "Discotequa" and "Single-Bilingual" did not.

But, yes, "La Gloria" was hardly a masterpiece either.

I think "La Gloria" is pretty openly supposed to be silly

even though Erasure and PSB seem to have so much in common on the surface it's really mind-boggling to try to compare them because of their differences in approach

Admittedly "Single-Bilingual" isn't that great, mainly because it was a complete ripoff of Los Fabulosos Cadillacs' "Matador". But I "Discoteca" has a fantastic intro, and it's not bad overall.

"Discoteca" doesn't have much of a tune. "Domino Dancing" does. Thus, "Domino Dancing" is better.

Top 10 UK Chart positions for Erasure and Pet Shop Boys between 5th October 1985 and 5th October 1995:

ERASURE

Singles:
1. Sometimes - #2
2. Victim Of Love - #7
3. The Circus - #6
4. Ship of Fools - #6
5. A Little Respect - #4
6. Crackers International EP - #2
7. Drama! - #4
8. Blue Savannah - #3
9. Chorus - #3
10. Love To Hate You - #4
11. Breath of Life - #8
12. ABBA-Esque EP - #1
13. Who Needs Love (Like That) (Hamburg Mix) - #10
14. Always - #4
15. Run To The Sun - #6

Albums:
1. The Circus - #6
2. The Innocents - #1
3. Wild! - #1
4. Chorus - #1
5. I Say I Say I Say - #1

PET SHOP BOYS

Singles:
1. West End Girls - #1
2. Suburbia - #8
3. It's A Sin - #1
4. What Have I Done To Deserve This? - #2
5. Rent - #8
6. Always On My Mind - #1
7. Heart - #1
8. Domino Dancing - #7
9. Left To My Own Devices - #4
10. It's Alright - #5
11. So Hard - #4
12. Where The Streets Have No Name (Can't Take My Eyes Off You) - #4
13. Can You Forgive Her? - #7
14. Go West - #2
15. Absolutely Fabulous - #6

Albums:
1. Please - #3
2. Actually - #2
3. Introspective - #2
4. Behaviour - #2
5. Very - #1

So yeah, 15 UK Top 10 hit singles apiece, although Pet Shop Boys managed to attain 4 #1 singles, while Erasure managed one. Both acts managed 5 "proper" studio albums going Top 10 on the album chart, with Pet Shop Boys only managing one #1 album in that period, whereas Erasure had four #1 studio albums in a row.

Didn't include singles compilations, but Erasure's Pop! beat out Pet Shop Boys' Discography on the album chart too: Discography making it to #3, whereas Pop! charted at #1.

Conclusion: During their absolute peak years of 1985-1995, the UK public liked and appreciated both, though it seems that Erasure fans were more interested in buying the albums than buying the singles. Andy Bell was never a critic or a music journalist.

Post-1995 tells a different story, though: shifting musical trends in the UK made it hard for acts of this ilk... Depeche Mode probably weathered it the best even though they could just as easily have split up in the mid '90s (although granted, that had nothing to do with declining popularity), Pet Shop Boys weathered it remarkably well just by doing whatever the hell they wanted and pressing on regardless, and still managed to get a lot of press inches (Neil Tennant used to be a music journalist), but the late '90s mostly did for Erasure. They retained a hardcore fanbase, but they had only one more Top 10 album (Cowboy, in 1997), and the occasional hit after 1995.

It's weird how far Erasure fell commercially in the second half of the 90s. By the time Loveboat came out it felt like they were pretty much done. It was a wonderful moment when Breathe was such a big hit for them in 2005. I just wish the album had done as well, Nightbird is my favourite album of theirs.

'Nightbird' is indeed very good.

I think, in a way, the self-titled Erasure album from 1995 may have been the wrong type of album for them to release at the time. Personally, I think it's a good record and has some fine songs on there: 'Rescue Me', 'Fingers and Thumbs (Cold Summer's Day)', 'Rock Me Gently', 'Stay With Me', 'A Long Goodbye', but I think some Erasure fans were alienated by its emphasis on ballads/slower songs and "expanded" songs, even if just as many fans thought the approach on Erasure was a step in the right direction and find it a shame that they didn't go further in that direction. I definitely still think to this day that they chose the wrong singles from that album: 'Fingers and Thumbs (Cold Summer's Day)' really should have been the first single from the album, rather than 'Stay With Me' - not only in 'Fingers and Thumbs (Cold Summer's Day)' one of the most uptempo songs on the album, but it's also one of their very best songs in my opinion, and I still find in incredible that it only made it to #20.

Looking back, Erasure seemed to be quite a quick follow-up to I Say I Say I Say, appearing just over a year after that album. I seem to remember it getting some pretty decent reviews at the time.

Cowboy is a bit of a safer record, but there's nothing on there that's awful and that I find myself wanting to skip... I think the closing track, 'Love Affair', is up there as one of Erasure's best ever songs.

I completely forgot that I have a copy of 'Cowboy'. You're right that the self-titled may have been the wrong record at the time, but I'm not sure jumping straight to 'Cowboy' would have really helped either - I think the tide was turning regardless. "Fingers and Thumbs" should have been the first single, agreed. Probably felt they had "enough in the bank" to make something a bit more indulgent - making use of the end of the imperial period.

x-post

As for their post-'90s stuff:

I listened to Loveboat a couple of nights ago, and found it quite underwhelming on this go-round. I don't think the songwriting is anywhere near as strong as it is on Erasure or Cowboy, even if there is one or two songs on there that I like. The production/mix sounded as thin, bizarre and as terrible as ever, and I honestly can't believe that Andy & Vince thought it was good enough to release, especially since it had been about 3 years since Cowboy.

Nightbird sounded as wonderful and as underrated as ever, and sounds more like the logical follow-up to Erasure or Cowboy to me. Nightbird is probably the last Erasure album that actually sounds like an Erasure album to me, or what I like about Erasure.

Light At The End Of The World was okay, but in hindsight this album (for me) marks the beginning of Erasure trying anything they possibly can to "update" their sound, but in the process of doing so, it feels like the contemporary dance-pop gets ramped up and the "Erasure-ness" (for want of a better term) in their sound gets diluted. I think Tomorrow's World with its Melodyne effects all over the place is definitely like this, and The Violet Flame is a bit like this too. I liked The Violet Flame on first listen, but it's paled with subsequent listens. Nightbird feels like it couldn't have been made by anyone else aside from Erasure.

I'm seeing New Order and PSB in the fall (at least I hope)

So am I! I have tickets for both nights at the Hollywood Bowl. We'll see if it happens this year.

Pet Shop Boys are a great “albums” band, imo.

I saw DM a few years ago, an old friend was opening for them and so we got absurdly good seats. It was an experience, watching a bunch of Gen Xers screams along to every word of every song. Really fun, tbh!

DM win for me anyday, then Erasure, NO, and PSB.

Be prepared to hear the complete collapse of Bernard Sumner's voice, alas.

xxpost

You could have made that statement before any live New Order appearance since 1981, tbh

I know!

Pet Shop Boys "Disco" remix album (in the cassette format in this case) was the first album I ever bought, and it's a masterpiece. Listening to the Erasure hits takes me back to youth discos and pubs and they were pretty great. But the PSB one is like a sacred object to me.

That New Order/Pet Shop Boys tour is Erasure erasure!

NO/PSB neeeevveeeer mention Erasure.

Love Erasure! though imo they are very much a singles band, i am not as much of a fan of their album cuts, personally.

I remember a friend's younger sister going to see Duran Duran when she was 13 or 14, on the Seven and the Ragged Tiger tour; Erasure opened up and she came home saying, in effect, "I was not prepared for that."

Hmm...you sure it was Seven and the Ragged Tiger? Notorious seems more likely since that was 1986 and Erasure were two albums in, where during SATRT they didn't exist yet!

Saw Erasure on concert about 3 years ago and it was genuinely thrilling. Bare bones show with just two backing singers and a nice but basic lighting setup. I am not even a big fan but it was the best thing I've seen in years. Andy Bell is a blast.

Yeah, I had the album chronology wrong, but Erasure opened DD’s two concerts at Madison Square Garden in June 1987.

A difference between Erasure and PSB is that the latter has a fairly linear sense of melody for the vocals - fewer notes and closer together let's say. It is less ambitiously composed - whereas Erasure melodies are up and down the scales, often in arpeggios if you think of songs like "Love To Hate You" or "Star" etc. In both cases it complements their backing music which for Erasure relies on springy sequencers and for the Petshop Boys is more chordal, has more synth washes and atmospherics.

Basically the Petshop Boys are the John Lennon of synth pop and Erasure are Paul McCartney. I guess that means Depeche Mode are George Harrison.

a George Harrison who affects a love of leather

George Harrison is the vegan Depeche Mode

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE7-RlrQx2c

the 1993 channel 4 special 'Camp Christmas' is on youtube in full, co-presented by Andy Bell and Melissa Etheridge, they perform several Christmas songs together. In terms of differences between Erasure and PSB, it's difficult to imagine Neil Tennant replacing Bell here. Also features Derek Jarman, Martina Navratilova, Justin Fashanu, Armistead Maupin, Stephen Fry and many more. Fry called it "ghastly and under-rehearsed".

Erasure are the synth-pop Beach Boys, A Little Respect's melody is straight-up Brian Wilson anyway
Drama! is the genre's Good Vibrations
Blue Savannah is Don't Worry Baby

I mean I could go on

there is no comparison as it is like saying the smiths are better than the cure or the clash are better than the sex pistols!

"Blue Savannah" is gorgeous.

Fat Vegetarian Goths > Fat Vegan Racists so The Cure wins.

Was Morrissey racist in the '80s and/or '90s or is this a recent development?

The Smiths suck

1986 — “Reggae, for example, is to me the most racist music in the entire world. It's an absolute total glorification of black supremacy... I don’t have very cast iron opinions on black music other than black modern music which I detest. I detest Stevie Wonder. I think Diana Ross is awful. I hate all those records in the Top 40 – Janet Jackson, Whitney Houston. I think they’re vile in the extreme... Obviously to get on Top Of The Pops these days, one has to be, by law, black,” he told Melody Maker.

1992 — He was quoted in Q Magazine saying: “I don’t really think, for instance, black people and white people will ever really get on or like each other.”

Ugh. Breaking my heart Moz.

How do you regard Erasure in comparison with the Pet Shop Boys? Aren't they very much alike?
Erasure In many ways, yes, they are very much alike, at least superficially. Both are British synthpop duos who started off in the 1980s and have openly gay vocalist/lyricists. And I do like Erasure tremendously, counting them among my favorites. But I like the Pet Shop Boys far more. Pet Shop Boys
I believe Erasure and the Pet Shop Boys are comparable as performers, although I think Neil and Chris put on a better show overall. I also think the Boys have a better sense of style. But, much more importantly, they're vastly superior songwriters. Clarke/Bell is a pretty good songwriting team. But Tennant/Lowe is, in my opinion, a truly great songwriting team. More pointedly, Andy simply isn't in the same league as Neil when it comes to writing lyrics.

For every two Erasure songs that I like, I can name another that I don't care for. By contrast, out of more than 300 PSB songs to date, I can honestly say that (as I note elsewhere) there are only three that I dislike: "The Sound of the Atom Splitting," "Love Is a Catastrophe," and "Ego Music." To put it another way, I like about 67% of what Erasure does, whereas I enjoy roughly 99% of the Pet Shop Boys' output. Also, I find both the early and more recent albums by Erasure rather weak—I think they peaked in the 1990s with the albums from Chorus through Cowboy—whereas PSB's albums were top-notch from the start and have, in my opinion, maintained an unremitting level of excellence. (Let's just say that Disco 2 was an anomaly. )

I have a warped little dream: that someday Erasure will release an album of nothing but Tennant/Lowe songs, perhaps including a few remakes but ideally made up mostly of previously unreleased originals. Better yet, the Pet Shop Boys would also produce the album, while allowing Clarke a free hand with his synth arrangements, of which he is an absolute master. One song could even be a "duet," in which both Vince and Chris play instruments and both Andy and Neil sing. (Can you imagine a love-duet between those two? Half of me thrills at the thought; the other half cringes in horror.) Such an album could be nirvana. (Please note the lower-case n.) Of course, it will almost certainly never happen, but I still love to imagine it.

C'mon guys—you can work it out.