Passover

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Wait so what the fuck is in Passover kugel???

quincie, Friday, 22 April 2005 12:30 (eighteen years ago) link

Something from a packet.

beanz (beanz), Friday, 22 April 2005 12:32 (eighteen years ago) link

Quincie, Passover food cannot be "leavened" so it's all made out of ground up matzah or something. It's like cement.

Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 22 April 2005 12:35 (eighteen years ago) link

One thing I'll say about both WASPs and Jews -- Ashkenazic (european) Jews anyway: they both have lousy food.

Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 22 April 2005 12:37 (eighteen years ago) link

Passover can lick my balls and like it. Except for the seders, because I'm in the mood for some juicy brisket.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Friday, 22 April 2005 12:37 (eighteen years ago) link

Matzah also confuses me. The paper's food section said that matzah "is made from matzah meal." Thanks a lot, what the hell is matzah meal?

So I asked my friendly neighborhood Jew and SHE DID NOT KNOW WHERE MATZAH MEAL CAME FROM! I mean, does it come from a matzah plant? What the hell??????

xpost oooooooh, I LOVE me some brisket!

quincie, Friday, 22 April 2005 12:38 (eighteen years ago) link

I thought matzah meal is ground up matza, not the other way around... I'm probably wrong though. Matzah's made like bread only it's not given enough time to rise in the oven. Can't be cooked for more than 18 minutes or something.

beanz (beanz), Friday, 22 April 2005 12:45 (eighteen years ago) link

That's right. Quincie, your paper's food section was wrong.

Matzah is awful. I refuse to eat it. Unless it's fried matzah, because fried matzah is awesome.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Friday, 22 April 2005 12:47 (eighteen years ago) link

Matzah's ok until day 2 when the stomach cramps take hold.

beanz (beanz), Friday, 22 April 2005 12:49 (eighteen years ago) link

So does matzah come from wheat or oats or rice or some other grain? I must get to the bottom of this.

I like to eat matzah (is that what you call the cracker stuff or do you call that something like "matzah cracker?") with butter and a little salt.

quincie, Friday, 22 April 2005 12:53 (eighteen years ago) link

See also: kosher Coke, which sells like hot cakes with the WASPs because it tastes better than the usual corn syrup stuff. Great for mixing highballs.

quincie, Friday, 22 April 2005 12:55 (eighteen years ago) link

Comes from wheat -> plain flour. The only kosher for passover use for flour is matzah. Other grains and pulses and things aren't kosher for passover. Rice isn't for ashkenazy jews and is for sephardis.

beanz (beanz), Friday, 22 April 2005 12:58 (eighteen years ago) link

One year I decided to be Sephardic for Passover. Because when you think about it, their rules make a hell of a lot more sense.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Friday, 22 April 2005 13:02 (eighteen years ago) link

Does any of it make sense?

beanz (beanz), Friday, 22 April 2005 13:04 (eighteen years ago) link

Thanks for the explanation, beanz. So it is safe to describe matzah as a special form of (wheat) flour?

This is actully the second thread today in which I've seen reference to "pulses." Is this a UK thing, 'cause I have no idea what that is, either!

quincie, Friday, 22 April 2005 13:17 (eighteen years ago) link

my main experience with seders was in college. a bunch of nonobservant ultraliberal jews/half-jews/interested housemates would gather for an afternoon to eat overly lumpy charoset and get sick off manechewitz. someone would have borrowed hagaddahs from the religious center, but there would never be enough to go around and the only song that anyone even vaguely knew the tune for would be 'dayenu' (sp).

lauren (laurenp), Friday, 22 April 2005 13:19 (eighteen years ago) link

overly lumpy charoset

How does one fuck up charoset? It's the easiest thing to make, that's why we used to assign it to my grandfather.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Friday, 22 April 2005 13:23 (eighteen years ago) link

i don't like big walnut pieces in the charoset.

lauren (laurenp), Friday, 22 April 2005 13:28 (eighteen years ago) link

Quincie, pulses are beans, peas and lentils etc. Matzah is the actual cracker:

http://www.paleotimes.org/images/matzo.jpg

beanz (beanz), Friday, 22 April 2005 13:39 (eighteen years ago) link

has anyone here had that creamy horseradish stuff? i know, i know, sounds gross, but MAN is it ever good.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 22 April 2005 13:58 (eighteen years ago) link

possibly not kosher for passover, but it seemed apposite.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 22 April 2005 13:59 (eighteen years ago) link

It's a standard roast beef condiment in britain.

Ed (dali), Friday, 22 April 2005 14:01 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh god that picture is making me hungry--time for lunch!

How exactly is this horseradish used in the Passover sense (creamy horseradish spread on matah=idea I must pursue)?

quincie, Friday, 22 April 2005 14:03 (eighteen years ago) link

Whatever it is they put in Pret a Manger roast salmon and horseradish sandwiches is damn fine. It's creamy and horseradishy. Does that sound right? (Ugh, I'm so fucking bourgeois.) Horseradish for the seder is a big lump of raw horseradish. Making my mouth water just thinking about it.

beanz (beanz), Friday, 22 April 2005 14:03 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/images/horseradish.jpg

beanz (beanz), Friday, 22 April 2005 14:06 (eighteen years ago) link

Doesn't that look appetising. Mmm mm mmmm.

beanz (beanz), Friday, 22 April 2005 14:06 (eighteen years ago) link

But is actual edible horseradish incorporated into any traditional Passover dishes? Can you (do you?) put it on your brisket?

quincie, Friday, 22 April 2005 14:12 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't, but many people do, yes. They also dollop it onto their GEFILTE FISH.

Let us now recall the GEFILTE wars from the Rosh Hashanah thread.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Friday, 22 April 2005 14:15 (eighteen years ago) link

re: passover kugel

why the fuck would you try to make it out of matzo meal??!??! that would be about as dense as a neutron star.

the only passover kugel is POTATO kugel which is made basically the same way as regular potato kugel, of which im making about 10 lbs of come saturday.

AaronK (AaronK), Friday, 22 April 2005 14:21 (eighteen years ago) link

With any luck my mum will have made a similar quantity of charoset.

beanz (beanz), Friday, 22 April 2005 14:22 (eighteen years ago) link

Need recipe for potato kugel immediately. Thanks.

quincie, Friday, 22 April 2005 14:26 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh and is there such a thing as kosher booze other than wine? Kosher scotch or something?

quincie, Friday, 22 April 2005 14:27 (eighteen years ago) link

Anything made from kosher ingredients can be certified kosher including alcohol. Whisk(e)y isn't kosher for passover though, nor beer.

beanz (beanz), Friday, 22 April 2005 14:30 (eighteen years ago) link

well, it goes something like this... I'm trying to recall from memory, but the recipe is not terribly exact anyway, its pretty forgiving.

10 potatoes, peeled if you wish, grated or food processed, then drained of moisture with a strainer
1-2 onions, (or to taste) grated/food processed
3-4 eggs, probably the more eggs, the richer it is
1/2 cup matzo meal(/flour if not pascal)
1/4 cup oil
a good amount of salt
black pepper to taste

mix all this together in a giant bowl, put it in a greased pan so that the stuff is about 2 inches high, bake at 350ºF for 1.5-2 hours till nice golden brown on top. I hate when cooked potatoes have any hardness left to them, so I'm going for closer to 2 hours.

pretty easy except for the mass grating of potatoes.

AaronK (AaronK), Friday, 22 April 2005 14:37 (eighteen years ago) link

sposedly vodka is made from potato, so thats ok.

i forget what gin is made from. Sake should be ok if your sephardic.

mmm...sake...

AaronK (AaronK), Friday, 22 April 2005 14:38 (eighteen years ago) link

So potato kugel=kinda like latkes (sp?), only baked?

quincie, Friday, 22 April 2005 14:39 (eighteen years ago) link

mmm kosher saki.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 22 April 2005 14:39 (eighteen years ago) link

You are all making me hungry. (I am, however, having Peruvian food tonight.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 22 April 2005 14:41 (eighteen years ago) link

hey, "peru" rhymes with "jew"--almost the same.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 22 April 2005 14:49 (eighteen years ago) link

Just make sure it's really potato vodka and not cheaper wheat vodka.

jocelyn (Jocelyn), Friday, 22 April 2005 14:53 (eighteen years ago) link

yes yes! you could take the same goop, put it on a frying pan and have latkes. the same exact mixture.

AaronK (AaronK), Friday, 22 April 2005 14:57 (eighteen years ago) link

My great-grandparents distilled potato vodka in their backyard in some grim corner of pre-pogrom Belarus.

Japanese Giraffe (Japanese Giraffe), Friday, 22 April 2005 15:13 (eighteen years ago) link

In some grim corner of pre-pogrom Lithuania my great-grandparents owned a cow, which made them the envy of the shtetl I'm told.

beanz (beanz), Friday, 22 April 2005 15:23 (eighteen years ago) link

I would like to go to a seder. I've always felt I was born into the wrong religion (ultra-WASPY episcopalian) and that my true self is a Jew. Kind of like some people are born biologically male but know deep down they are actually a chick.

Me too. I'm devoid of any spirituality and was born as such but if there's any religion I should've been born into it should've been Judaism as it's the only one I feel some affinity for.

N.B.: very few (if any?) Jewish ILXors are religious

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Friday, 22 April 2005 15:29 (eighteen years ago) link

O.K., so, honest question here--is one still popularly identified as Jewish even if one is completely secular (or for that matter an active member of some non-Jewish faith) or does the very term imply some sort of committment (however tenuous) to the Jewish faith?

Like, grown up me is an atheist so I don't think of myself as episcopalian, even though I was raised in that faith and that is the faith of my parents, etc. . . the same sort of thing does or does not apply to Judaism? Anyone?

quincie, Friday, 22 April 2005 15:43 (eighteen years ago) link

I guess I'm just trying to figure out the "not religious" thing one makes one a non-religious Jew or not a Jew at all.

Am I making any sense?

quincie, Friday, 22 April 2005 15:44 (eighteen years ago) link

Uh, I appear to have missed some words on that last post. So to recap: is a non-religious person of Jewish heritage a "not-religious Jew" or not a Jew at all?

quincie, Friday, 22 April 2005 15:46 (eighteen years ago) link

answers on this thread:

What makes a good babka? and other questions about traditional Jewish desserts

is one still popularly identified as Jewish even if one is completely secular

short answer: yes, and in fact this was the reason behind my response to Ian's comment

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Friday, 22 April 2005 15:48 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh man, now I really want some babka. Never had it.

quincie, Friday, 22 April 2005 15:52 (eighteen years ago) link

This is going OK so far. I haven't done any of my own cooking for the last four days. There's no family left for me to visit so I have to start taking care of myself now. I'm gonna make a hugeass pot of chicken soup tomorrow and that should cover me for a few meals. I didn't end up with a stash of Passover sweets this year so I'll have to make do with fruit for dessert for the next few days.

Rather than bread, I think I'll end Passover with an assload of beer. That worked out really well last year.

NoTimeBeforeTime (Barry Bruner), Sunday, 16 April 2006 05:40 (eighteen years ago) link

I work at a seafood restaurant. Last night a Jewish couple came in an asked me if the crab cakes included bread as an ingredient because they couldn't eat leavened bread because they were staying kosher for passover.

Isn't this pretty inconsequential in light of crab being non-kosher?

Jeff. (Jeff), Sunday, 16 April 2006 18:14 (eighteen years ago) link

I work at a seafood restaurant. Last night a Jewish couple came in an asked me if the crab cakes included bread as an ingredient because they couldn't eat leavened bread because they were staying kosher for passover.

Isn't this pretty inconsequential in light of crab being non-kosher?

WhiskeyBanjoFishbutt (Jeff), Sunday, 16 April 2006 18:14 (eighteen years ago) link

kosher for passover and kosher are two separate things.

the enduring pueblo (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 16 April 2006 18:26 (eighteen years ago) link

Question

What food is not kosher for Passover and why?

Answer

The Torah instructs a Jew not to eat (or even possess) chometz all seven days of Passover (Exodus 13:3). "Chometz" is defined as any of the five grains (wheat, spelt, barley, oats, and rye) that came into contact with water for more than 18 minutes. This is a serious Torah prohibition, and for that reason we take extra protective measures on Passover to prevent any mistakes.

Which brings us to another category of food called "kitniyot" (sometimes referred to generically as "legumes"). This includes rice, corn, soy beans, string beans, peas, lentils, peanuts, mustard, sesame seeds and poppy seeds. Even though kitniyot cannot technically become chometz, Ashkenazi Jews do not eat them on Passover. Why?

The Smak (Rabbi Moshe of Kouchi, 13th century, France) explains that products of kitniyot appear like chometz products. For example, it can be hard to distinguish between rice flour (kitniyot) and wheat flour (chometz). Therefore, to prevent confusion, all kitniyot was prohibited.

The Beit Yosef (Rabbi Yosef Karo, 16th century, Israel) notes that grains may become mixed together with kitniyot, and one may inadvertently come to eat actual chometz.

* * *

In Jewish law, there is one important distinction between chometz and kitniyot. During Passover, it is forbidden to even have chometz in one's possession (hence the custom of "selling chometz"). Whereas it is permitted to own kitniyot during Passover and even to use it - not for eating - but for things like baby powder which contains cornstarch. Similarly, someone who is sick is allowed to take medicine containing kitniyot.

Interestingly, the Sefardi Jewish community does not have a prohibition against kitniyot. This creates the strange situation, for example, where a Sefardi family could be eating rice on Passover - whereas their Ashkenazi neighbors will not!

* * *

What about derivatives of kitniyot - e.g. corn oil, peanut oil, etc? This is a difference of opinion. Many will use kitniyot- based oils on Passover, while others are strict and only use olive or walnut oil.

Finally, there is one product called "quinoa" (pronounced "ken- wah" or "kin-o-ah") that is permitted on Passover even for Ashkenazim. Although it resembles a grain, it is technically a grass, and was never included in the prohibition against kitniyot. It is prepared like rice and has a very high protein content. (It's excellent in "chollent" stew!) You should be able to find it at most health food stores. Of course, it needs to be from a closed container that is new for Pesach.

Some other things - like chestnuts and alfalfa sprouts were not included in the original prohibition of Kitniot.

To learn more, see Maimonides - Laws of Chometz and Matzah 5:1; Code of Jewish Law - OC 453; Igros Moshe OC 3:63.

the enduring pueblo (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 16 April 2006 18:32 (eighteen years ago) link

kosher for passover and kosher are two separate things.

I didn't realize that. But if you're eating unkosher food that prepared kosher for passover aren't you still doing wrong?

WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot (unclejessjess), Monday, 17 April 2006 02:22 (eighteen years ago) link

You're right, it's a bit nonsensical. Over the weekend, I was at a family dinner (a mix of Jews and non-Jews) and there was a shrimp platter. Normally, I would eat shrimp but on this occasion I didn't because it's Passover. Depending on how you want to look at, this makes perfect sense or absolutely no sense.

Yes, I followed the rules of Passover (no shrimp during Passover, or any other time of the year for that matter) but I wasn't consistent with my usual habits (I like shrimp). If the shrimp had been breaded, it would have been a different story. OTOH, I don't buy kosher meat so you could argue that the chicken I ate tonight is just as unkosher as the shrimp I passed up over the weekend.

NoTimeBeforeTime (Barry Bruner), Monday, 17 April 2006 04:17 (eighteen years ago) link

I didn't realize that. But if you're eating unkosher food that prepared kosher for passover aren't you still doing wrong?

most jews in america don't keep kosher. but passover is a religious holiday and a lot of jewish people want to do something ceremonial to keep those ties to their roots. so they do the "kosher for passover" thing and fast on yom kippur and go on with their lives. i don't think it's particularly hypocritical. it's about having a couple of days out of the year where you recognize those old-world traditions.

the enduring pueblo (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 17 April 2006 05:16 (eighteen years ago) link

really, we're not like catholics. we don't believe we're gonna get sent to hell if we don't kosher up for the holidays. ;-)

the enduring pueblo (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 17 April 2006 05:19 (eighteen years ago) link

you talk about jews and americans

RJG (RJG), Monday, 17 April 2006 09:39 (eighteen years ago) link

and food

RJG (RJG), Monday, 17 April 2006 09:41 (eighteen years ago) link

RJG otm haha

AaronK (AaronK), Monday, 17 April 2006 10:48 (eighteen years ago) link

omg jbr talking about jewish-americans on a thread about passover TOTALLY UNCALLED FOR

the enduring pueblo (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 17 April 2006 20:14 (eighteen years ago) link

rgj, what do you talk about, besides your disapproval of other people?

the enduring pueblo (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 17 April 2006 20:15 (eighteen years ago) link

I think that that is a bit of a silly question

RJG (RJG), Monday, 17 April 2006 20:22 (eighteen years ago) link

you're so "edgy"

the enduring pueblo (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 17 April 2006 20:23 (eighteen years ago) link

no need for personal attacks

RJG (RJG), Monday, 17 April 2006 20:25 (eighteen years ago) link

haha

the enduring pueblo (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 17 April 2006 20:26 (eighteen years ago) link

COMMAS, PEOPLE.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 April 2006 20:36 (eighteen years ago) link

one year passes...

http://www.judaism.com/gif-bk/80389a.gif

gabbneb, Monday, 31 March 2008 02:03 (sixteen years ago) link

it really is worth it to get the genuine huggable matzah ball. the knock-off ones give you a rash

burt_stanton, Monday, 31 March 2008 02:05 (sixteen years ago) link

I always eat way too many macaroons. Favorite are Manichevitz chocolate chip.

I love the Hillel sandwich why because it tastes intersting.

I try to do the unleavened kosher for Passover but usually some Gentile will trick me into eating cake on the last day, arguing with me over when the holiday ends.

what's passover like round your way?

Sometimes (including this year) I visit my parents. We invite the widow over, eat lamb and boiled egg and parsley and matzo ball soup. Then we play bridge, while the dog jumps on the table and eats a golf-ball shaped hole in the honey cake.

I like the idea of the stupid son.

felicity, Monday, 31 March 2008 02:19 (sixteen years ago) link

it only occurred to me now that the reason the GHMB looked just a bit small for hugging (lol, matzoh ball is hueg) was because it might not be meant for adults. i have to see my sister's plague kit.

i was holding onto the possibility that my mom had invented 'hillel sandwich', but i'm glad it's found elsewhere as well.

my parents are abandoning me for grandma, tho i may join them if i can and the crowd isn't too large already. i might end up leading a seder - lol?

gabbneb, Monday, 31 March 2008 02:57 (sixteen years ago) link

two weeks pass...

oh yeah, the hillel sandwich is in the hagaddah isn't it

happy pesach!

gabbneb, Sunday, 20 April 2008 03:34 (fifteen years ago) link

wtf with bay area "matzah shortage"?! By Saturday night, every single grocery store in town was completely out of matzah and matzo meal.

Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 21 April 2008 21:17 (fifteen years ago) link

Matzah blows. Sorry.

-- Hurting (Hurting), Friday, April 22, 2005 11:29 AM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

CONTROVERSIAL OPINION.

We didn't do Passover this year, as my Grandparents, who usually host, are on the other side of the country. Usually it's the seder with the reading and the singing and the wine and the plagues and the haroset and the bitter herbs and the matzoh ball soup and family arguments.

ian, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 23:28 (fifteen years ago) link

Plagues are A++++ would visit them on Egypt again.

felicity, Wednesday, 23 April 2008 06:24 (fifteen years ago) link


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